Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

For all discussion on all the previous Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980s games (Bard's Tale, II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

waltc
Scholar
Posts: 214
Joined: July 1st, 2015, 11:51 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by waltc » November 10th, 2018, 10:04 am

Some suggestions here for Trilogy, but first let me just say that I am enjoying the Trilogy & BTIV immensely--both exceeding every expectation I had by a country mile! (I've got ~70 game hours into IV--and I'm not yet done! Tell the truth I don't want to finish! So I'm stretching everything as much as I can to keep playing!) 'Kay, 'nuff hero worship, InXile, Krome--except to say that you guys deserve it richly! Without further ado...


1) Spice up the BT1 ending greatly with a few simple changes...

When I killed Mangar in Trilogy BT1 the first time, I was congratulating myself on my cleverness because right after he perished I ran from the fight before everyone in my party was turned to stone by this horde of Demon Lords that had somehow materialized when I wasn't looking...;)...and then I discovered that Mangar *reboots* himself after he's killed--so it's not just Mangar, but the entire fight that needs to be repeated--even if you just slew Mangar--and then you ran. No biggie, repeated the fight and played it a bit differently and won the entire fight easily with my lvl ~35 party, and with only two stoned, this time...;) It was highly satisfying! But to that end I have suggestions that I believe could be implemented with very little effort over the stock BT1 ending...

Namely, the moment Mangar succumbs in the final BT1 tower fight (as opposed to the moment the entire fight is won, even if Mangar has been dead for a couple of turns)--immediately upon Mangar's demise, Kylearan should materialize at that point with his "well-done" speech and his ample rewards and all forward progress in the game should instantly cease because the game has been won. Kylearan's rewards should also include the instantaneous restoration from all negative conditions for all party members, including Stoned, Drained, etc., so that when Kylearan transports the party to the AG, everyone is suitably healthy, wealthy, and wise--poised perfectly to step into BTII, etc!

To me, It seems "unfinished"--anti-climactic, to have to leave the AG after Kylearan's speechifying and praise, to go back to the temple to restore party members who were unfairly deprived of winning XP even after dying to rid Skara Brae of Mangar and his eternal, infernal winter, in that final fight to slay Mangar. This change would make the ending seem less of an afterthought, imo. (Of course, Legacy Mode should include only the stock ending.)

2) Monster Portraits could be greatly improved in this way...

Applies to all of the Trilogy remasters, but especially to BT1. When playing BT1 originally so long ago, I remembered one criticism I had about the original games--was that the same images were often used to depict several different monster types. It was more understandable back then because of disk-space limits and the like, but there really exists no reason for the images to repeat today, in the remasters. I think the games could be greatly improved by using unique imagery to depict every monster type in the games.

3) Automap inclusion of Street names

Speaks for itself--Street names could be added to the tool-tip grid location information in the automaps, as opposed to trying to write them out on Journal page, etc. Either would work fine.

--There are many great suggestions in this thread, but as I know the Trilogy is still a marvelous work in progress, these three suggestions are all I wish to make at this time...;)

Tuoweit
Acolyte
Posts: 94
Joined: September 27th, 2014, 11:25 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Tuoweit » November 10th, 2018, 5:04 pm

Drool wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 5:48 pm
Milamber33 wrote:
November 7th, 2018, 11:40 pm
I'm 99% sure that the AI just decides what each NPC is going to do as it acts, unlike the player who has to pre-commit. There's just too many cases of NPC actions being based on the results of player actions, within the same round of combat. Pre-commitment would at least occasionally have an NPC miss its turn, but that never happens.
I dunno. I've seen, "So-and-so tries to summon a wolf, but there's no room!" a few too many times...
I know I've seen that too... but honestly I can't recall specifically seeing it in the remaster. Certainly not in the BT2 remaster. Maybe this is some AI behaviour that got "fixed" in the remastering process.

In any case, I don't begrudge the AI getting to decide its course at the moment of action and having an advantage in that regard - after all, the AI has no tactics or coordination, unlike the player, which is a far greater advantage.

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1191
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » November 11th, 2018, 1:46 pm

The changelog for the 2.0 release mentions that both the attempts to summon when no slots are available and the attempts to make out-of-range attacks were fixed. A number of us pointed out these issues prior to the 2.0 release and Krome, being awesome, actually addressed them.
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by thebruce » November 12th, 2018, 6:39 am

Minor note though - regarding the 'no room' when enemies summon, that can also be taken into consideration for combat strategy. I remember clearly that when fighting certain spellcasters who kept summoning, if they summoned weak creatures I would occasionally hedge my bets and leave the extra enemy slots full (like 1 Wolf, 1 Wolf, 1 Wolf, etc) so I could focus on the spellcasters knowing that there was a good chance they would try to summon rather than cast an effective attack spell. (otherwise I could decide to just farm the summons for XP) Additionally, there was a point of difficulty in that while you were trying to clear out the summon, the casters would still be summoning, so you might kill off 3 wolves, but the next round they could be full up again. Point being, removing the ineffective summon casting from spellcasters would actually increase their difficulty because those particular spellcasters would now always be casting effective offensive spells against the party.

Just another collateral gameplay point to consider when making what seems to be a QOL improvement.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

Milamber33
Novice
Posts: 35
Joined: November 1st, 2018, 7:37 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Milamber33 » November 12th, 2018, 3:39 pm

Fair point, but on the other hand there's no such thing as a QoL change to AI. By definition any changes to NPC behaviour effect gameplay mechanics and balance. I at least am making requests here fully aware that if they go ahead with them other things should also change to maintain balance, but you do make a good point about a particular strategy which would need to be taken into account if a smarter AI, but one that uses the same rules as the players, were to be implemented.

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1191
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » November 12th, 2018, 4:53 pm

thebruce wrote:
November 12th, 2018, 6:39 am
Point being, removing the ineffective summon casting from spellcasters would actually increase their difficulty because those particular spellcasters would now always be casting effective offensive spells against the party.
Which is what I want, so I don't have a particular problem with it. ;)
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by thebruce » November 12th, 2018, 5:38 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
November 12th, 2018, 4:53 pm
thebruce wrote:
November 12th, 2018, 6:39 am
Point being, removing the ineffective summon casting from spellcasters would actually increase their difficulty because those particular spellcasters would now always be casting effective offensive spells against the party.
Which is what I want, so I don't have a particular problem with it. ;)
I didn't particularly say I had a problem with it either, just noting the effect beyond "oh it looks like a possible mistake that can be fixed" :) Another one of those "leave it in the legacy" adjustments :P
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

miasma
Acolyte
Posts: 60
Joined: April 13th, 2018, 10:25 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by miasma » December 27th, 2018, 12:31 pm

This is a really minor thing, and I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, but in BT1, it would be nice if a mage's class changed to "Archmage" after all seven levels of all four classes have been mastered. I know Archmages in BT1 don't get any new spells, and that's fine, but the acknowledgment that he/she is now an Archmage would be at least somewhat rewarding.

Gandalf
Initiate
Posts: 4
Joined: December 26th, 2018, 11:38 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Gandalf » December 28th, 2018, 10:16 am

Repeat last turn commands for the party. This would be a nice thing to have.

More info on character sheet:
Number of attack.
Strenght bonus info (to hit and damage)
Ranged and melee to hit bonus.
Saving throw
Hit dice (maybe in a tool tip) when over the class

A tool tip for the monk damage table

When you have a weapon that can be thrown equipped, it should list the melee and the thrown damage on the character sheet, and both to hit bonus.

miasma
Acolyte
Posts: 60
Joined: April 13th, 2018, 10:25 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by miasma » December 28th, 2018, 2:22 pm

I mentioned it in another thread, but the #1 thing I wish they'd implement is a way to transfer characters between games WITHOUT requiring the player to complete the previous game.

User avatar
Orpheus the Bard
Explorer
Posts: 306
Joined: July 2nd, 2015, 3:48 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Orpheus the Bard » January 1st, 2019, 9:14 pm

I think the interior of Harkyn's Castle, looks alittle bland considering the new look of the Winecellar (I forget the name of the pub, But I think you all know which one I'm talking about. It actually looks like a winecellar now. Yet, the entry level to Harkyn's castle is just a bland dungeon and not even a Throne when you get to it. Aside from the picture your shown when you first enter. Some more work here please.
Image

miasma
Acolyte
Posts: 60
Joined: April 13th, 2018, 10:25 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by miasma » January 2nd, 2019, 6:08 am

Orpheus the Bard wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 9:14 pm
I think the interior of Harkyn's Castle, looks alittle bland considering the new look of the Winecellar (I forget the name of the pub, But I think you all know which one I'm talking about. It actually looks like a winecellar now. Yet, the entry level to Harkyn's castle is just a bland dungeon and not even a Throne when you get to it. Aside from the picture your shown when you first enter. Some more work here please.
I agree with this. When you first step into Harkyn's Castle, you're told that there are lavish tapestries adorning the walls, but what we actually see are just bland, green bricks that look exactly the same as the sewer bricks. It would be great if it looked regal. Maybe the walls could be significantly taller, too, making the castle feel grand, rather than claustrophobic. I'm thinking something like how the Ishar games looked:
Image

Kylearan's Tower could also do with a face-lift, as it, too, looks the same the as a sewer. It's owned by a wizard, so it should look magical, not mundane.

Loswaith
Novice
Posts: 27
Joined: January 20th, 2016, 9:39 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Loswaith » January 3rd, 2019, 2:18 am

Some reason to actually use a Rogue over another spell caster (or any other class). Seems for the most part the Rogue just always feels like a wasted slot, sure it can kill every other round (if you can reach or hit them, though with specific weapons others can do it every round) and a few other nice features but not enough to feel worth while, especially given they mostly have AC lower than even the casters.

Monks seem to get a comparatively huge to hit bonus (I don't recall them being that good in the originals), it would be nice for the other non-mage classes to get hit bonuses as well.

ybkara
Initiate
Posts: 18
Joined: August 15th, 2018, 9:57 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by ybkara » January 14th, 2019, 9:18 am

And for something that should be pretty easy to add - how about an option under legacy to double all monsters? Just multiply groups size by 1.5-2.5 randomly, so you see something other than even multiples of 2. Or just an .ini file to edit to change some run parameters - more interesting under legacy, since then you would be stuck with your decision to turn it on.

1st level group up against 15 mad dogs should be interesting.

On a similar vein - would be nice to see monsters summoned against you stack - so demon lords summoning more demon lords doesn't just fizzle with 4 groups.. but stacks up to 4 groups of 99 monsters against you, if they don't turn everybody to stone first. Maybe summoning Kringle brothers would add 6 in a group at once when Lagoth uses it against you. BT3 does something similar with monsters calling for help -and it would make the Herb encounters that much more difficult.

Combine them both - and you could get 3 Lagoth Zantas summoning 18 Kringle brothers a round. Makes zero sense for lore, I suppose - but why not?

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9779
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Drool » January 14th, 2019, 2:15 pm

That would make little sense to add to Legacy mode.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

ybkara
Initiate
Posts: 18
Joined: August 15th, 2018, 9:57 am

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by ybkara » January 15th, 2019, 6:29 am

True, it has nothing at all to do with Legacy.

Legacy options already exist, so piggy backing persistent changes there could be convenient for developers to allow more game modes.. like low gold, double monsters+half experience, that sort of thing could exist in perhaps only a few lines of code, depending on how they arranged things internally. Perhaps just giving a different window to select options in would work.

The ideal solution would be to enable mod support - but that likely is too much work to do for a $15 game. Trivial changes like mods for more monsters/different game parameters should be fairly simple for people to write up there.

Jesse011
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: December 28th, 2018, 5:18 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Jesse011 » January 15th, 2019, 8:22 am

Just let me farm the berzerkers and fight Mangar more than once and i'll be happy with it. As it stands i feel like i wasted my time levelling up a group that cant do the best fights anymore

Keighn
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: September 19th, 2016, 5:20 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Keighn » March 1st, 2019, 7:32 am

A repeat last combat commands option.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a paper doll usage for players. There can be a lot of confusing gear at times. Not huge I suppose.

Magican
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: December 2nd, 2015, 1:54 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by Magican » March 3rd, 2019, 11:24 am

I would like the music to be a bit slower and made a little better so I can feel it like the old days on my AMIGA

CrawfishFiesta
Initiate
Posts: 2
Joined: March 17th, 2019, 3:56 pm

Re: Features you wish The Bards Tale Trilogy had

Post by CrawfishFiesta » March 17th, 2019, 7:15 pm

I’d like the ability to use arrow-key based navigation of all menus. You can navigate the main menu, character list, inventory, and spell lists and make selections with the [enter] key, but can’t do so with the combat/action menus.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests