The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

For all discussion on all the previous Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980s games (Bard's Tale, II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

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ZiN
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by ZiN » November 2nd, 2018, 1:52 pm

Gizmo wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 7:04 am
Image

Now what's curious about this (besides its impossible mechanical nature), is that while the original game (in this case BT2) did the same thing with the doors, it instead had the handles on the left and the hinges on the right. :mrgreen:
Yeah, the originals had normal doors. Not sure why the remasters have these flipped ones, perhaps it's an Australian thing? : )
kaypy wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 10:00 am
Now that travelhelms work, they work too well: you can use them to escape death snares
Hmm, I think they need to consult Cranford, if that's allowed or not. : )

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 2nd, 2018, 10:35 pm

Casting Phase Door updates the automap to change the wall into a 1-way wall - this change is permanent, the map will always show a 1-way wall in that location after you phase-door there once.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by spacemanspork » November 3rd, 2018, 10:58 am

EDIT2: I've hidden the spoilers better because someone was complaining about spoiling.

EDIT: Learned the answer - THIS IS NOT A BUG

Just ignore the old BT2 ClueBook (which honestly is a great read IMO, read it if you haven't, but the answer in it for this snare isn't good). The old BT2 clue book mentions the mage leading them to ignore the magic mouth, then running the path 10 times before answering the question correctly, then going into the room and being teleported. So that's what I was trying. I was getting the vial 10x ignoring the magic mouth (answering blank) before answering it correctly the 11th time. That's not how to do it. You need to answer correctly 5x.

The correct way is actually to sing Watchwood melody before going in for light and for spinner help, go find the answer to the riddle (you have to; it knows if you haven't visited the square), then do the vial -> answer riddle 5x, then the room will have a teleporter.

PREVIOUS POST -
Am I the only one with this bug?

Maze of Dread is unbeatable for me. I'm on the snare and as far as I know I should've beaten it. I've looked at guides and they say there should be a teleport on N19 E7 after the magic mouth says "Correct". As you can see there's nothing there. No teleport. You just stand there and nothing happens.

https://i.imgur.com/bKoZsPd.jpg

I've reloaded and done the stupid back and forth a few times and each time the mouth tells me "correct" and puts me at N19 E6 facing the door and when I walk through the door, nothing. This is really annoying. Am I doing it wrong or is there a bug? Because this is the stupidest snare ever. "Waste a ton of time doing boring stuff and maybe this doesn't even work." This game is being shelved because I'm going to go insane if I try this insanely boring snare again and have it fail on me again.
Last edited by spacemanspork on November 4th, 2018, 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 3rd, 2018, 5:11 pm

You're equipping the vial you get after each loop to the alchemist so that at the end you have 5 vials equipped on 5 characters, right?

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by spacemanspork » November 3rd, 2018, 9:22 pm

Zadkiel wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:11 pm
You're equipping the vial you get after each loop to the alchemist so that at the end you have 5 vials equipped on 5 characters, right?
Edit - I've modified this to hide things because someone on this thread was complaining about spoilers.

I wasn't but I can't get another vial without the magic mouth taking the one I had. If I equip it, I can't get another vial unless I let the magic mouth take it. If the magic mouth doesn't take it, I can't get another. So basically this what I'm doing.


1. Getting the teleporter on the left area so I can be told the answer is Enduring.
2. Going to the alchemist, getting a vial.
3. Going to the magic mouth.
4. Answer blank.
5. Lose the vial.
6. Repeat steps 2-5 multiple times.
7. After 5 -10 times, answer "Endurable"
8. Mouth says "Correct", teleports me to door.
9. Go through door to empty room.


I tried equipping the vial but the magic mouth just takes it away and if I don't visit the magic mouth, I can't get another vial.
Last edited by spacemanspork on November 4th, 2018, 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 3rd, 2018, 9:57 pm

Well, I told you that you need to collect 5 vials. You're telling me that every time you deliberately answer the question wrong, you lose your vial. Maybe you can put these 2 facts together to work out what youlre doing wrong.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by spacemanspork » November 3rd, 2018, 11:07 pm

Zadkiel wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 9:57 pm
Well, I told you that you need to collect 5 vials. You're telling me that every time you deliberately answer the question wrong, you lose your vial. Maybe you can put these 2 facts together to work out what youlre doing wrong.
EDIT - Someone was complaining about spoilers so I put spoiler tags around the spoilers but they're still showing as far as I can see so I made the spoiler parts harder to read but as a warning - Answers to the Maze of Dread Snare follows.

You're actually giving me bad information with your good information, but your good information is enough to give me the answer I need.

Thanks, even though I'm not sure why you want to be so cryptically condescending with your advice. The actual answer is you need to answer the question correctly 5 times while having a vial. The magic mouth takes the vial whether or not you get it right or wrong. You cannot hold 5 vials so collecting 5 of them at once is impossible. Equipping the vial doesn't matter at all. It's unnecessary.

The reason I was so confused by it because the old BT2 clue book doesn't give you the right information. The BT2 clue book says he ignored the magic mouth and did it 10x before answering Endurable. Which is what I did on purpose; I answered nothing because that's what the guy in the clue book did. And obviously this doesn't work.

https://i.imgur.com/pTMFsQf.png

Like you pointed out you have to answer it correctly. The best and easiest way to beat this snare for anyone stuck is
  • Before you enter the snare, sing Watchwood Melody
  • Go to 16, 2 to get the answer to the riddle. You can't answer the riddle without it; the magic mouth will point out you shouldn't know the answer.
  • Go to 21, 6 to get a vial. Watchwood melody will make that spinner at 15, 4 less annoying by far
  • Go to 17, 7 to see the magic mouth. Answer "Endurable". You will be teleported to 19, 6.
  • Repeat getting a vial and answering "Endurable" until the magic mouth congratulates you for your persistence
  • Enter the room at 19,7 - there won't be a teleport there until the magic mouth congratulates you for your persistence.
Last edited by spacemanspork on November 4th, 2018, 10:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 4th, 2018, 6:34 am

spacemanspork wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 11:07 pm
Thanks, even though I'm not sure why you want to be so crypticall
Because this is NOT a spoiler forum or a spoiler thread, and I didn't want to ruin the game for anyone else. I was trying to answer your question in a way that was helpful to you without spelling it out and ruining it for others. But it turned out to be useless because despite my subtle attempt to indicate this to you, you've gone on to spoil everything for everyone anyway. Your questions weren't even relevant for this thread, asking for a puzzle solution in a bug reporting thread.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by spacemanspork » November 4th, 2018, 10:09 am

Zadkiel wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 6:34 am
spacemanspork wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 11:07 pm
Thanks, even though I'm not sure why you want to be so crypticall
Because this is NOT a spoiler forum or a spoiler thread, and I didn't want to ruin the game for anyone else. I was trying to answer your question in a way that was helpful to you without spelling it out and ruining it for others. But it turned out to be useless because despite my subtle attempt to indicate this to you, you've gone on to spoil everything for everyone anyway. Your questions weren't even relevant for this thread, asking for a puzzle solution in a bug reporting thread.
Ah, so you just wanted to be a dick. I was thinking that's what it was but I wasn't sure, but now I am. The spoiler thing isn't true because "answer the question 5x correctly" is just as spoilery than "get 5 vials and equip 5 vials" and "answer the question 5x correctly" is all I needed. If you didn't want to spoil things why didn't you say "no spoilers please?" No you had to be subtle about asking for no spoilers? Uh huh.

Also this forum name is "bugs or not bugs". Not "bugs only and I'll be a dick if yours isn't a bug after all". It's pretty clear why I thought it was a bug - and I even posted the part of the clue book which makes it look like a bug. You're right in telling me "that's NOT a bug" (which is part of this forum name isn't it). Again, look at the title of this forum.

It's always interesting to me because if you had just gone "uh, you have to answer it 5x correctly, dude". I would've been like "wow, this guy is helpful and nice" instead of "wow, what a dick. I wonder what's wrong with him at home? Probably has a lot of issues and is lashing out at strangers online to feel better. I mean he can't really be on a high horse like that on a gaming forum for a game out in the 1980s."

Whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm going to still thank you anyways for getting me through that part of the game, and I'll spoiler-fy my post so you can get off your high horse, and I'm still going to wish you the best because I don't really know what's actually bothering you. So thanks.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 4th, 2018, 10:27 am

You came here full of attitude, bad mouthing the game, whining and complaining. I decided to ignore your bad attitude and try and help you, and all you do in return is insult me over and over. Well it turns out this forum has an ignore feature, so that's good at least.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by rakenan » November 4th, 2018, 4:26 pm

Zadkiel wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 10:35 pm
Casting Phase Door updates the automap to change the wall into a 1-way wall - this change is permanent, the map will always show a 1-way wall in that location after you phase-door there once.
Actually if you go back to the other side of the wall after Phase Door wears off (which IIRC is only one space movement) it will update again to the wall being present.

Still pretty annoying, though.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Zadkiel » November 5th, 2018, 3:35 am

rakenan wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 4:26 pm
Actually if you go back to the other side of the wall after Phase Door wears off (which IIRC is only one space movement) it will update again to the wall being present.

Still pretty annoying, though.
Oh, weird, I was sure I'd checked that

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by thebruce » November 5th, 2018, 6:49 am

So the automapper updates what's visible even if the change is known to be temporary. It'll stick until it's visibly returned to its original state. I think spell-based map changes should be an exception to the automapper (you won't erase a wall on your map when you cast PHDO knowing it'll return as soon as you move through; unless it was a permanent wall removal of course :P).
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by redwinclass » November 5th, 2018, 7:11 am

Minor bug:

Should "Titan Figure" be called "Titan Figurine" instead?

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by Spectralshade » November 7th, 2018, 2:46 am

rakenan wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 4:26 pm
Zadkiel wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 10:35 pm
Casting Phase Door updates the automap to change the wall into a 1-way wall - this change is permanent, the map will always show a 1-way wall in that location after you phase-door there once.
Actually if you go back to the other side of the wall after Phase Door wears off (which IIRC is only one space movement) it will update again to the wall being present.

Still pretty annoying, though.
there are areas where this is impossible. one square areas walled off on every side where the only way to get to them are with the usage of phase door.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by rakenan » November 7th, 2018, 7:33 am

Spectralshade wrote:
November 7th, 2018, 2:46 am
rakenan wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 4:26 pm
Zadkiel wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 10:35 pm
Casting Phase Door updates the automap to change the wall into a 1-way wall - this change is permanent, the map will always show a 1-way wall in that location after you phase-door there once.
Actually if you go back to the other side of the wall after Phase Door wears off (which IIRC is only one space movement) it will update again to the wall being present.

Still pretty annoying, though.
there are areas where this is impossible. one square areas walled off on every side where the only way to get to them are with the usage of phase door.
Are there areas that allow the use of PHDO that don't allow the use of APAR? Honestly curious, I don't recall many/any, but it's not something I've specifically checked. Most of the time, as I recall, zones either allow you to use magic to skip past the structure of the zone or they don't, and if not, they disable both PHDO and APAR. And I don't think APAR checks for antimagic in the target square, only the starting square.

But that's a lot of supposition on my part for a problem that would be fixed if they just had PHDO not put a persistent change on the automap.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by thebruce » November 7th, 2018, 8:14 am

PHDO should never put a persistent change on the map as it's always a single-move temporary change. I think it's just an effect of the manner in which the automap is recorded. Should be (auto map -> phdo -> render view) rather than (phdo -> automap / render view)
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by see » November 8th, 2018, 9:34 pm

I seem to be having Demon Strike/Demon Bane persistently fizzle against Demon Lords, when cast with 50+ level Archmages. Is that supposed to happen?

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by jamespodesta » November 10th, 2018, 10:05 pm

thebruce wrote:
November 7th, 2018, 8:14 am
PHDO should never put a persistent change on the map as it's always a single-move temporary change. I think it's just an effect of the manner in which the automap is recorded. Should be (auto map -> phdo -> render view) rather than (phdo -> automap / render view)
I believe he is correct in that the only way to get a completionist map of some dungeons is to use APAR instead of Phase Door.
the AutoMapper was designed to represent only what the player can see, but in the case of phase door, even though the player can never truly see that the wall is visible again from the original tile, he knows it because he knows how the spell works.

Note - there is no-where you can get with phase door, which you can't get with APAR (other than APAR needing more spell points).

While the game is techinically capable of being anti-phase-door but not anti-apar, this ability was never implemented that I could see.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy - Bugs or Not Bugs?

Post by ZiN » November 11th, 2018, 2:39 am

jamespodesta wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 10:05 pm
While the game is techinically capable of being anti-phase-door but not anti-apar, this ability was never implemented that I could see.
Talking about BT1-2 right? I'm pretty sure that BT3's Tenebrosia and Malefia were APAR-proof, but you were supposed to use PHDO (or WAWA) on certain walls.

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