Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

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Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Themadcow » August 9th, 2018, 2:08 am

So I understand from Krome that the remasters are being retooled for ensuring characters carry through well from game to game.

This poses the question... which party would work best for BT1-3? It's been a loooooong time since I've played 2 or 3 but I have a feeling that my prefered BT1 party isn't optimal for the later games:

1 - Paladin
2 - Monk
3 - Warrior (or 2nd monk)
4 - Bard
5 - Conj
6 - Magician

Warrior is of dubious benefit here compared to a 2nd monk or paladin. Hunter is good for crits, but otherwise dispensible. Rogues are almost a liability. It's also probably best to have 3 magic users for a min/max party but I hate having a bard in the front line.

However, I vaguely remember Hunter being more useful in BT2 and BT3... and a rogue being important for BT3?

So - best party for a trilogy run? I'm sure certain people will have an opinion...
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Drool » August 9th, 2018, 1:36 pm

My usual BT3 party was:

Warrior/Paladin (who would later become my Geomancer)
Hunter
Monk
Bard
Rogue
Mage
Mage
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by thebruce » August 9th, 2018, 1:57 pm

I'd usually favour some combination of

Paladin
Hunter/Monk
Rogue
Bard
Mage
Mage
Mage

3 mages can be very powerful, and strategic leveling can provide a good double whammy with redundant classes. Great for quicker healing or mass damage.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Themadcow » August 9th, 2018, 2:33 pm

I'm down with the 3 mages but in BT1 at least that means running with 1 or 2 pure fighters (pala, warrior, monk) and 1 or 2 specialists (bard, rogue, hunter) as the 7th spot is summons only.

Pala is supposedly the best leader due to trap resistance (Not sure if thats really the case) and the monk is very useful as a mule due to minimal weapons/armor. So I think I'd run with a Pala, Monk and Bard if doing a 3 mage run.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 9th, 2018, 5:39 pm

If you look at the party roster in the preview trailer, you'll see slots 1 through 7 in the BT1 remaster. From this, one might infer that the special slot is no longer present (for consistency between games in the series). So, you can do a 7 PC party as Drool and theBruce are talking about.

Personally, I think a party like the following might work best:
Paladin
Hunter
Hunter
Bard
Mage
Mage
Mage

The first four ranks are all in melee range and each character gets 1d16 + Con bonus HP per level. Paladins were important in the originals because magic resistance was tied to the chance to flee combat and only the first rank of the party was considered when calculating that. While Monks are awesome, they don't gain levels as fast as other fighting classes and only have 1d8 hit dice. Also, it's possible that they simply might not dish out enough damage in BT3, whereas as Hunters can crit opponents. Rogues are mostly worthless, if you are taking another mage instead, because that mage will have extra spell points for TRZP and then some. And TRZP is guaranteed to work, whereas even high level Rogues can fail at disarm attempts. Warriors are not as good as Paladins in BT1 - yes, there are a few armors that they can wear that Paladins can't, but there are also some even better ones that Paladins can wear that Warriors can't and Paladins have better magic resistance, the same progression in number of attacks, and the same hit dice.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Drool » August 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm

That said, come BT3, you'll want a rogue. But it's easy enough just to make one and drag his level up.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 9th, 2018, 6:45 pm

True that. I just don't think I would want to drag a Rogue through 1 and 2, so I agree that making one for 3 is probably the best option.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Drool » August 9th, 2018, 6:50 pm

Of course, I suppose it depends on the code base they use. The notoriously buggy DOS version, for instance doesn't actually require the Rogue for supposed Rogue-only fights, but I'd like to think that wouldn't be the case in the remaster.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by sinbuster » August 13th, 2018, 4:43 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 5:39 pm
If you look at the party roster in the preview trailer, you'll see slots 1 through 7 in the BT1 remaster. From this, one might infer that the special slot is no longer present (for consistency between games in the series). So, you can do a 7 PC party as Drool and theBruce are talking about.
I don't quite follow. Are we just assuming that because the first shot of Skara Brae clearly shows a dwarf monster in the first spot. The video then shows the same 6-man party walking through the cellars without the dwarf. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the option for 7 PCs but I don't see that anywhere.

Great thread, I really want to play a party all the way through but there's never enough room (unless I can have 7 PCs of course). When people say mage do they mean magician or just one of the spellcaster types?

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 13th, 2018, 5:12 pm

sinbuster wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 4:43 pm
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 5:39 pm
If you look at the party roster in the preview trailer, you'll see slots 1 through 7 in the BT1 remaster. From this, one might infer that the special slot is no longer present (for consistency between games in the series). So, you can do a 7 PC party as Drool and theBruce are talking about.
I don't quite follow. Are we just assuming that because the first shot of Skara Brae clearly shows a dwarf monster in the first spot. The video then shows the same 6-man party walking through the cellars without the dwarf. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the option for 7 PCs but I don't see that anywhere.
In BT1, there was a special slot. If the that slot had been labeled 1 in the remaster, then a PC would not have been able to fill it. Since a monster can fill it at one point and then a PC can fill it at a later point, one can infer that it is generic and not special. But, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Great thread, I really want to play a party all the way through but there's never enough room (unless I can have 7 PCs of course). When people say mage do they mean magician or just one of the spellcaster types?
One of the spellcaster types, not specifically the magician, even though both words come from the same Greek word borrowed from Old Persian.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by sinbuster » August 13th, 2018, 5:43 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 5:12 pm
...
Well someone subscribes to word-a-day ;)

Thanks for the quick reply. Can't wait for tomorrow. Though no key yet... On the subject of spellcasters, is it best to switch classes so as to access all the spells with each character (level 13 according to one guide I read)? It's been a long time since I did a BT1 run.

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 13th, 2018, 6:56 pm

I think some of that is how completionist you feel about leveling mages and how many mages you are going to run around with. Developing a Sorcerer fast, as the manual suggests, is useful for detecting the traps (and other fun things) in the deepest sewers and the catacombs. The manual also says that the minimum level party you should attempt the Catacombs with is level 9. I would say they are pretty dangerous at level 9. So, might want to build up in Sewers 3, which is a pretty XP rich environment, and game some higher skill levels on the mages in their starting classes.

Ideally you want to reach level 13 (spell level 7) for at least one Magician and one Conjurer. The Magician has the best healing spell in the game (REST) as well as the useful PHDO at spell level 6, iirc. The Conjurer has APAR (the teleport spell) at spell level 7, which you almost certainly want. You might be able to get by without a fully developed Sorcerer, though some of the higher level Sorcerer illusions (WIDR and WIGI) are quite nice until you get a Wizard with GRSU (summoning of Greater Demons or Demon Lords). You would almost certainly want a spell level 7 Wizard for GRSU and possibly SPBI (Baylor's Spell Bind) and want lower Wizard levels for things like REDE (Repel Dead) and BEDE (Beyond Death).
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by sinbuster » August 14th, 2018, 1:20 am

Cheers for that. Lots to consider, especially if I add another spellcaster into the mix.

Back on topic...I think my starting party will be something very similar to what Themadcow is rolling. Maybe hunter instead of warrior. I'll probably level up a few other characters once the core is strong enough. That does raise the question: can you carry over a roster of characters from game to game or only those in your party?

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Orpheus the Bard » August 14th, 2018, 1:33 am

My ideal adventuring party would be

Paladin or Warrior,
Monk,
Bard,
Rogue or Hunter,
Conjuror,
Magican.

A lot like those put up before mine.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Themadcow » August 14th, 2018, 4:07 am

Just rewatching the Youtube video it's pretty clear that BT1 doesn't have the 'S' party slot anymore - it's 1-7 like BT2 and BT3. Personally I like the summoning aspect (especially when you can spellbind the bosses...) but having 7 player party members makes the 3 mage (min/max) approach more tempting.

Decisions decisions. It'll definitely feel more like BT1 if I'm rocking a party with a Jabberwocky up front though ^^
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 14th, 2018, 4:42 am

Jabberwocks aren't bad, but the Soul Sucker will always have a special place in my heart.
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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by Lanatir » August 14th, 2018, 6:06 am

7 chars = 3 spellcasters = 3 MIBL at the 396 Monster XP Factory. They better not dare to take those out. :P

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by sinbuster » August 14th, 2018, 4:00 pm

I have to try three spellcasters then. Two conjurers, one magician maybe? It looks like thebruce had it right all along. Paladin, monk/hunter, rogue, bard, mage x3. Hunter or monk, that's the question at the moment.

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by HawkSlayer » August 15th, 2018, 6:55 pm

2 magicians and 1 conjurer is better for leveling up
2 reasons really.
The conjurer has trapzap and summoning. You won't be summoning in a 7 man team.
the magician has low level group damage spells and vs undead spells and they are higher damage than the conjurer spells.
plus magicians are given a free very powerful level 1 spell that heals 8 points for 3 mana(not 1-8 healing. always 8) in the remastered
early leveling is cake with 2 magicians. It's not actually challenging at all compared to old school level 1 having max 19 health and no healing.


I have

Paladin
Warrior
Monk
Bard (this is meelee)
Conjurer
Magician
Magician

I considered making the warrior something else but ultimately I think one of the mages or paladin will become a chronomancer in Bard's Tale three and I want another full armor tank there.

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Re: Bards Tale Remasters - best carry through party?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 15th, 2018, 7:06 pm

I think the C64 (and possibly Amiga) versions had the lower initial HP. On IIgs and Mac, 29 was the max initial HP, not 19.
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