Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

For all discussion on all the previous Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980s games (Bard's Tale, II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

User avatar
Orpheus the Bard
Explorer
Posts: 306
Joined: July 2nd, 2015, 3:48 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Orpheus the Bard » August 17th, 2018, 2:03 am

Orpheus the Bard wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 2:41 am
Krome have made the game that much easier, which is a good thing. No complaints there. I recall from my very first play through that I had got as far as the Wine cellar in one of the pubs. Sinister Inn on the lower eastern side of the map, but never remembered fighting past the Samurai Statue to get to that Inn. Not that it's too tough a battle Not that I'm accusing Krome of changing the game too much, I just don't remember that part.

BTW, I figured out the mini map thing. Useful as well, I still spent ages finding that Inn.
Not the Sinister Inn actually, which I thought was on the next street parallel to Sinister street, but the Scarlet Bard, isn't it?
Image

joques
Acolyte
Posts: 77
Joined: June 30th, 2016, 11:37 pm

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joques » August 17th, 2018, 2:09 am

petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
Played a couple hours more last night, and I'm now clearly of the opinion that the game has become too easy.

You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.

I love the feel of the game, but I think I have to deliberately make it harder for myself. So I will drop a character (7 to 6) and replace a hp 60, Level 5 fighter with a wolf (or some other random NPC), and not go with 3 spellcasters, just to get the thrill of a possible death of a character back in the game.

I surely can't be the only one that thinks it is too easy now? (instead for too easy, one could argue that it plays too fast instead - but the point is almost the same).
I think it's perfect now. I don't have the hours and hours of free time I had when I was younger. Having the remastered versions be actually finishable is to me perfect. Two thumbs up! Although I find it kinda weird that it launched without legacy mode.

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 673
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by ZiN » August 17th, 2018, 2:11 am

petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
I will drop a character (7 to 6) and replace a hp 60, Level 5 fighter with a wolf (or some other random NPC), and not go with 3 spellcasters, just to get the thrill of a possible death of a character back in the game.
You will get ~15% more XP that way. I used a similar tactic in BT2 (BT1 is very similar to BT2 in the remaster), once I maxed out my magician and conjurer (plus found some mage/conjurstaves), I've replaced the whole frontline with summoned creatures, but kept the bard for Rhyme of Duotime. Will Rhyme of Duotime implemented in the remastered BT2? Also in legacy mode, the summoned creatures will be useful for hoarding extra gear, because the inventory will be very limited.

joekucera2002
Acolyte
Posts: 58
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 7:16 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joekucera2002 » August 17th, 2018, 5:36 am

petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
Played a couple hours more last night, and I'm now clearly of the opinion that the game has become too easy.

You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.

I love the feel of the game, but I think I have to deliberately make it harder for myself. So I will drop a character (7 to 6) and replace a hp 60, Level 5 fighter with a wolf (or some other random NPC), and not go with 3 spellcasters, just to get the thrill of a possible death of a character back in the game.

I surely can't be the only one that thinks it is too easy now? (instead for too easy, one could argue that it plays too fast instead - but the point is almost the same).
I agree, I think some of the challenge is gone due to the experience changes. Fortunately, we will be able to roll back the experience changes in legacy mode.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » August 17th, 2018, 6:17 am

Hopefully Legacy mode will address that ;)

What I find fascinating is all the feedback more regarding the concept of the game as it exists today, compared to what it would have garnered back in the day. A lot of changes relegated to QoL updates (meta gameplay preferences) would actually have been an aspect of game difficulty (like saving only at AG vs save anywhere). Drop some of the QoL changes to bring it back in line with the classics and some might say, not "this game is hard!" but "this game is bad!" Same for mapping mentality, manual content, hints, etc.
Just a random observation :)

But yeah, I certainly agree that upping a bunch of actual statistical values used in-game (tougher enemies, longer advancement) to make survivability more difficult would be prudent, if only to compensate for some QoL stuff that may not get adjusted back in Legacy.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

miasma
Acolyte
Posts: 59
Joined: April 13th, 2018, 10:25 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by miasma » August 17th, 2018, 7:07 am

petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
Played a couple hours more last night, and I'm now clearly of the opinion that the game has become too easy.

You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.

I love the feel of the game, but I think I have to deliberately make it harder for myself. So I will drop a character (7 to 6) and replace a hp 60, Level 5 fighter with a wolf (or some other random NPC), and not go with 3 spellcasters, just to get the thrill of a possible death of a character back in the game.

I surely can't be the only one that thinks it is too easy now? (instead for too easy, one could argue that it plays too fast instead - but the point is almost the same).
It's definitely easier than the originals, but that's part of what I like about it. I play these types of games more for the fun of exploring, and not so much for constantly backtracking to temples to heal my characters or for worrying about resource management, etc. I found the original BT a bit tedious at times. But obviously different people enjoy different aspects of these games. Maybe a Difficulty setting would be the best way to go? I'd have no shame in choosing "Easy" mode.

User avatar
Spectralshade
Scholar
Posts: 219
Joined: May 22nd, 2012, 8:58 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Spectralshade » August 17th, 2018, 8:19 am

thebruce wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 6:17 am
Hopefully Legacy mode will address that ;)

What I find fascinating is all the feedback more regarding the concept of the game as it exists today, compared to what it would have garnered back in the day. A lot of changes relegated to QoL updates (meta gameplay preferences) would actually have been an aspect of game difficulty (like saving only at AG vs save anywhere). Drop some of the QoL changes to bring it back in line with the classics and some might say, not "this game is hard!" but "this game is bad!" Same for mapping mentality, manual content, hints, etc.
Just a random observation :)

But yeah, I certainly agree that upping a bunch of actual statistical values used in-game (tougher enemies, longer advancement) to make survivability more difficult would be prudent, if only to compensate for some QoL stuff that may not get adjusted back in Legacy.
the soulsucker is still a menace.

Just wiped out my party when I accidently found it in the catacombs.

Afterwards I was like: "Oh yeah... That's right... I had forgotten about that one..."

User avatar
Spectralshade
Scholar
Posts: 219
Joined: May 22nd, 2012, 8:58 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Spectralshade » August 17th, 2018, 8:22 am

joekucera2002 wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 5:36 am
petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
Played a couple hours more last night, and I'm now clearly of the opinion that the game has become too easy.

You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.

I love the feel of the game, but I think I have to deliberately make it harder for myself. So I will drop a character (7 to 6) and replace a hp 60, Level 5 fighter with a wolf (or some other random NPC), and not go with 3 spellcasters, just to get the thrill of a possible death of a character back in the game.

I surely can't be the only one that thinks it is too easy now? (instead for too easy, one could argue that it plays too fast instead - but the point is almost the same).
I agree, I think some of the challenge is gone due to the experience changes. Fortunately, we will be able to roll back the experience changes in legacy mode.
I don't get this idea that the xp changes have anything to do with challenge.
All it changes is the time needed to grind for more levels.

Aside from when I first entered the catacombs, I usually always far outleveled the areas I was exploring, because it is just safer to explore an area when your spellpoints allows you to keep you safe in health without needing to run back to a temple all the time.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » August 17th, 2018, 10:24 am

You could say that even fi the difficulty is low but the XP takes time to achieve, the game is drawn out more, and as an effect you've got a much longer and deeper connection with it. Back then, it wasn't so much "grinding" - today I think that's become a taboo because of our go-go-go culture; we want things as fast as possible, so rote repetition is seen as a waste of time. But in removing that consistent exposure to the world over a long time period, our connection with the game will become thinner. I don't think that the remasters will build as much of a personal relationship with its players than the originals did 30 years ago. If it takes longer to get XP, people will think the game is "bad" because of the grinding and repeating. If it's shorter to get the XP, people will complete the game faster and might love it, but won't have that same deep connection of olde. :) tough call! heh
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9758
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Drool » August 17th, 2018, 3:54 pm

petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.
The beginning was made a little easier to let players hit the ground running, and to make it a little less punishing for newcomers -- especially ones who have never played an old school meatgrinder or experienced Nintendo-Hard. That said, that's just the opening. The early difficulty hill was smoothed down a bit, but it doesn't stay that way.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1177
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 17th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Spectralshade wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 8:19 am

the soulsucker is still a menace.

Just wiped out my party when I accidently found it in the catacombs.

Afterwards I was like: "Oh yeah... That's right... I had forgotten about that one..."
:D Awesome. I am still scarred from the party wipe that little nasty gave me as a kid.
Now, whenever I go through more than 10 east-facing doors in a row, I start to get nervous. Up around 15, I get the sweats. Also don't like signs that say "Stasis Chamber Ahead".
cmibl<enter>

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1177
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 17th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Drool wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 3:54 pm
petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.
The beginning was made a little easier to let players hit the ground running, and to make it a little less punishing for newcomers -- especially ones who have never played an old school meatgrinder or experienced Nintendo-Hard. That said, that's just the opening. The early difficulty hill was smoothed down a bit, but it doesn't stay that way.
I know we suggested that compromise to Krome, but they may have cut the XP for all levels in half. Will have to verify. Also, James said that they reduced the mage XP per level above level 13, which I think makes mages even more overpowered. If it was to solve the issue of people not doing Wizard as their last class, I think that there were other ways to go about it.
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9758
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Drool » August 17th, 2018, 4:41 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 4:31 pm
Now, whenever I go through more than 10 east-facing doors in a row, I start to get nervous. Up around 15, I get the sweats. Also don't like signs that say "Stasis Chamber Ahead".
Yeah, 3 had a nasty deathtrap room too. Entrance was a one-way wall, inside it's Health Drain, Spell Point Drain, Dark, Silence, Antimagic.

Of course, I had to try it out. Luckily, it was in the C64 days, so I just turned off my disk drive before trying.
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 4:34 pm
I know we suggested that compromise to Krome, but they may have cut the XP for all levels in half. Will have to verify. Also, James said that they reduced the mage XP per level above level 13, which I think makes mages even more overpowered.
Mmm... yeah, that's a good point.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

User avatar
petersey
Initiate
Posts: 6
Joined: August 16th, 2018, 12:24 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by petersey » August 17th, 2018, 11:22 pm

Drool wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 3:54 pm
petersey wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 1:19 am
You level up too fast, and the characters hp makes it no problem at all to survive. I'm at sewer level 1, and ready to go to level 2, even though I haven't spent a night in Skara Brae, and havn't been to every corner of the Celler and Sewer L1.
The beginning was made a little easier to let players hit the ground running, and to make it a little less punishing for newcomers -- especially ones who have never played an old school meatgrinder or experienced Nintendo-Hard. That said, that's just the opening. The early difficulty hill was smoothed down a bit, but it doesn't stay that way.
I hope you a right. I just like to examine all parts of a dungeon, before being able to continue to the next.

I don’t use the A-team, just made 7 new characters, and went into the city.

User avatar
petersey
Initiate
Posts: 6
Joined: August 16th, 2018, 12:24 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by petersey » August 19th, 2018, 11:26 pm

Having played a bit more (sewers L2) and I'm beginning to get the same feeling about the game as I had before.

Playing with 6 characters helped alot, so I'm continuing this. But going from Sewers1 to Sewers2 left me with the feeling of "this is not ending well" which really is a great part of this game.

So I'm a happy player again, and really consider my 40$ spent on the KS to be a bargain for getting these 3 old Bards Tales games (so the BT4 is just a "bonus" game that comes with the classics :-D )

rmcoen
Acolyte
Posts: 96
Joined: August 23rd, 2018, 5:59 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by rmcoen » August 23rd, 2018, 10:30 am

When in BT2 coming? Or do we already have it and I just don't see it?

SK_1759
Acolyte
Posts: 97
Joined: September 24th, 2015, 6:10 pm

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by SK_1759 » August 23rd, 2018, 12:14 pm

rmcoen wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 10:30 am
When in BT2 coming? Or do we already have it and I just don't see it?
As per the posts and the in game marque, it will be in the Fall of 2018. BT3 will be in the Winter of 2018. So I'm expecting BT2 in Oct/Nov and BT3 end of Dec.

rmcoen
Acolyte
Posts: 96
Joined: August 23rd, 2018, 5:59 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by rmcoen » August 23rd, 2018, 12:29 pm

SK_1759 wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 12:14 pm
rmcoen wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 10:30 am
When in BT2 coming? Or do we already have it and I just don't see it?
As per the posts and the in game marque, it will be in the Fall of 2018. BT3 will be in the Winter of 2018. So I'm expecting BT2 in Oct/Nov and BT3 end of Dec.
Thanks SK. I guess I missed that part. So after tonight... I'll need to play something else for a little bit!

SK_1759
Acolyte
Posts: 97
Joined: September 24th, 2015, 6:10 pm

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by SK_1759 » August 23rd, 2018, 5:14 pm

rmcoen wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 12:29 pm
SK_1759 wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 12:14 pm
rmcoen wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 10:30 am
When in BT2 coming? Or do we already have it and I just don't see it?
As per the posts and the in game marque, it will be in the Fall of 2018. BT3 will be in the Winter of 2018. So I'm expecting BT2 in Oct/Nov and BT3 end of Dec.
Thanks SK. I guess I missed that part. So after tonight... I'll need to play something else for a little bit!
I know what you mean. I'm on the 1st level of Mangar's Tower. I'll probably finish this up sometime this weekend.

G1Countdown
Novice
Posts: 39
Joined: August 20th, 2018, 10:45 am

Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by G1Countdown » August 23rd, 2018, 6:55 pm

petersey wrote:
August 19th, 2018, 11:26 pm
Playing with 6 characters helped alot, so I'm continuing this. But going from Sewers1 to Sewers2 left me with the feeling of "this is not ending well" which really is a great part of this game.
I think 6 characters is the way to go. Starting out though, I prefer to create 7. Get the 7th nice and leveled just in case of a party wipe. Nothing stings more for me than journeying to the temple for rez after a party wipe and having your unleveled A Team member get butchered 10 feet from the temple!

And, I am in full agreement with many from this thread. This remaster is fantastic. The QoL improvements are great and bring some comfort to playing a game that can be so punishing at times. This remaster really brought back the nostalgia!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests