Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

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Zadkiel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Zadkiel » August 15th, 2018, 6:24 am

jrodman wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:04 am
There are a lot of design changes that I didn't mention that I think are bad. I only kept the ones that can only be explained as errors.
ONLY explained as errors? let's see.

1) Initial range of attributes are incorrect. Example: Dwarves can't start with 18 constitution.

levelling curve has been dramatically reduced, resulting in faster and more stat gains than the originals. Given you quickly end up at 18s everywhere even in the originals, it makes sense they would tweak starting stats down by a point here and there. Levelups lose a bit of shine when you're already at 18s by the midgame. I suspect the old stsrting stats will be restored in legacy mode when the old leveling curve is restored.

2) Party attack doesn't work. (There is a reason you can do this in the original game, even when no one is hostile!)

Almost certainly removed to close the numerous exploits related to it. In particular the unlimited healing in dungeons where HPs/SPs are designed to be a limited resource.

3) When night falls, the behavior of the mini-map changes with no explanation. Presumably it's using the dungeon behavior, although this makes little sense. (A night-time town still has street signs and etc)

If only there was some magical way to know which way you were facing so you could orient yourself to your map...

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by jrodman » August 15th, 2018, 6:27 am

ZiN wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:21 am
Orpheus the Bard wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 2:41 am
Krome have made the game that much easier, which is a good thing.
Will definitely come in handy in Destiny Knight, now, that the SP regen "exploit" is "fixed". Either they need to remove a good portion of SP drain tiles, from Oscon's Fortress, or add new items that restore SP, otherwise it will become almost impossible to win.
I've defeated the game without any such exploits, but admittedly as more or less an expert.

My first time through my c64 save floppy got corrupted around that point. I'm not exactly sure where but after the maze of dread and before the grey crypt. I was so annoyed at having to start over that I switched to the Amiga I'd recently bought and hacked up my characters to make it a cakewalk. I gave myself 99 in every stat and that version happily computed the bonus to hitpoints and spelllpoints per level as crazy high, and i had "****" for my hitpoints and spell points for most of the game. Those squares weren't able to drain through those numbers, whatever they were.

But I replayed it around 1997 or so fairly and i got all my spellpoints taken away and managed to get through somehow, and I wasn't aware of the pause-to-regen trick at that time and I'm sure I didn't do it.

So I'm pretty sure it's doable. But it might not be pleasant.

Zadkiel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Zadkiel » August 15th, 2018, 6:33 am

jrodman wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:04 am
And your comment in the last post about them likely not wanting to fix any of it is certainly not going to gain you any friends or attention. If you don't think they're going to fix it then why bother posting at all?
To make other potential buyers aware.
Honestly your comments are just straight up insulting to Krone. They have clearly made a very loving reproduction and clearly used all the information and resources available to do so. What is the hit bonus and damage roll of a Pureblade? I bet you don't know, but I bet your ass Krome do - to suggest they havn't used all the available information,and that any changes aren't either deliberate or accidental, but ignorant, is just insulting.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by jrodman » August 15th, 2018, 6:34 am

Zadkiel wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:24 am
jrodman wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:04 am
There are a lot of design changes that I didn't mention that I think are bad. I only kept the ones that can only be explained as errors.
ONLY explained as errors? let's see.

1) Initial range of attributes are incorrect. Example: Dwarves can't start with 18 constitution.

levelling curve has been dramatically reduced, resulting in faster and more stat gains than the originals. Given you quickly end up at 18s everywhere even in the originals, it makes sense they would tweak starting stats down by a point here and there. Levelups lose a bit of shine when you're already at 18s by the midgame. I suspect the old stsrting stats will be restored in legacy mode when the old leveling curve is restored.
You're ascribing a design change here, when it's just a copy-pasta from the MS-DOS bug which is the same.

Do you have some kind of design notes here or are you just asserting?

2) Party attack doesn't work. (There is a reason you can do this in the original game, even when no one is hostile!)

Almost certainly removed to close the numerous exploits related to it. In particular the unlimited healing in dungeons where HPs/SPs are designed to be a limited resource.
You can still achieve the same result without it. It just appears to be a broken UI choice.
The whole party attack concept was confusing enough as it was. Now it's an action that says you can't use it (??).
Argue that it's a design flaw if you want, but in software shops they all go into the same bug database.
3) When night falls, the behavior of the mini-map changes with no explanation. Presumably it's using the dungeon behavior, although this makes little sense. (A night-time town still has street signs and etc)

If only there was some magical way to know which way you were facing so you could orient yourself to your map...
You don't seem to be arguing this one at all. I'm aware that you can take actions to change the behavior.
It doesn't mean that this isn't a UI problem. How will it work for a new player?
When a minimap just changes its behavior with no explanation, we have a usability problem.

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thebruce
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » August 15th, 2018, 6:38 am

If you have bug reports, PLEASE use the proper channels to report them. If you don't and they remain unseen, they will remain bugs. If you report them, at least your opinion of whether you think they'll be addressed won't dictate whether they actually will.
Gameplay personal preferences are a different matter - they may be the result of differing opinions and explicit decisions that won't change (without convincing). But bugs (especially outright error reports) are universal, and they should absolutely get reported.
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Zadkiel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Zadkiel » August 15th, 2018, 6:39 am

you're missing my point. you claimed:
I only kept the ones that can only be explained as errors.
And I'm trying to demonstrate to you that some of these /may/ be by design.

JasonJoel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by JasonJoel » August 15th, 2018, 7:22 am

jrodman wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 6:04 am
JasonJoel wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 5:44 am
Well, some of those are bugs and some of those are design changes in the remastered version.
There are a lot of design changes that I didn't mention that I think are bad. I only kept the ones that can only be explained as errors.
And your comment in the last post about them likely not wanting to fix any of it is certainly not going to gain you any friends or attention. If you don't think they're going to fix it then why bother posting at all?
To make other potential buyers aware.
Except some of the items you listed are NOT errors. Party attacks is one example. The original game behavior was the bug, and often exploited. They fixed that, not broke it.

The automap functionality in town at night was likely a design decision. You don't know if it's a bug or not. Just that you don't like it.

Regardless, you are entitled to your opinion. Submit the bugs to in inxile or Krome and maybe they will be changed or fixed. Complaining in a forum isn't going to get them changed or fixed though, of that I'm pretty sure.

It sounds like what you really want is Legacy Mode. So maybe you will be happy when they finish and release that portion.

joekucera2002
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joekucera2002 » August 15th, 2018, 8:11 am

The only thing that I don't care for is the halved experience. I prefer to earn my levels. :)

Another reason is that gold doesn't seem to accumulate as fast, so I don't have the gold to learn the new spell levels at level 4. Almost, but not quite.

SK_1759
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by SK_1759 » August 15th, 2018, 8:55 am

Also the game is currently 1.00 (r1460)
I'm sure as bugs are found etc, they will get fixed and the game will get updated.

joekucera2002
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joekucera2002 » August 15th, 2018, 8:59 am

Honestly, I haven't found any bugs that aren't design changes.

SK_1759
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by SK_1759 » August 15th, 2018, 9:03 am

I haven't found anything either. But I haven't done much more than explore the city as I made a new party and want to level up a bit before I venture into the sewers. Also, I'm loving the additions to the city.

JasonJoel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by JasonJoel » August 15th, 2018, 9:12 am

I'm almost done with the catacombs. No game breaking bugs so far.

As mentioned, though, there are some quirks... Spinners don't work the way I remember... I can't remember for sure though, should you still get spun if you're levitating? I don't.
Last edited by JasonJoel on August 15th, 2018, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thebruce
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » August 15th, 2018, 9:13 am

As part of the 'A team' that helped test and provide feedback towards retaining nostalgic content in the remasters while weighing which QoL improvements were warranted, I can say that from we as playtester, a LOT of feedback was given, and while some fundamental elements were given a tweaking for this release, most of the major ones will be returning to classic form as per the Legacy Mode items listed in the game. Sort of like... there were things that had to change, there were things that were sort of iffy or debateable which were relegated to a Legacy option, and things that absolutely could not change for the remasters. There was a whole lot of testing for actual bugs and errors, but some could always get missed
Point being -- if you find any bugs, please please please do report them via proper channels!
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SK_1759
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by SK_1759 » August 15th, 2018, 9:17 am

That being said it would be nice to get reminded as to what the proper channels are. Seriously. I don't think I know what the proper channels are for bug reporting on the remasters.

JasonJoel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by JasonJoel » August 15th, 2018, 9:18 am

Edit: doh! Got sniped on this post too. 😀😀😀

Any guidance / links to where to proper channels for bug reporting are? Do they go to inxile or Krome?

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thebruce
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » August 15th, 2018, 9:25 am

I'll get back to you :P

But certainly, posting and following up with a sentiment basically saying "I'm not going to try because they probably don't care" doesn't help at all ;)
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phimseto
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by phimseto » August 15th, 2018, 9:28 am

We can chat all things "bugs" here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19209

joekucera2002
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joekucera2002 » August 15th, 2018, 9:45 am

thebruce wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 9:25 am
I'll get back to you :P

But certainly, posting and following up with a sentiment basically saying "I'm not going to try because they probably don't care" doesn't help at all ;)
True dat yo

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by joekucera2002 » August 15th, 2018, 9:49 am

The artwork itself is a win. I especially like being able to see the towers from the distance, and the castle looks like a castle.

I'll be looking forward to seeing drastic improvements in 3's wilderness - like seeing the mountain, the warrior's vale, etc.

JasonJoel
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by JasonJoel » August 15th, 2018, 10:45 am

I like the artwork as well!

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