Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

For all discussion on all the previous Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980s games (Bard's Tale, II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

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Ether
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Ether » May 23rd, 2017, 12:14 am

I'm pretty sure there was level draining in the Bards Tale games. Think the Witch King and the Vampire Lords could do that, among others. Compared to Gold Box games, it may have been less noticeable because of the higher levels.

I also thought you could restore levels in Pool of Radiance. Maybe that was with a scroll though?
Never did try the Level 0 thing.

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by thebruce » May 23rd, 2017, 6:36 am

Crosmando wrote:
May 22nd, 2017, 1:36 pm
A couple of others:
- Undead enemies that could turn characters old and drain experience points (level-draining enemies is something so sadistic that no modern developer would dare to inflict on their audience 8-) ).
- Doppleganger monsters that would join your party if you have empty slots by disguising themselves as one of your characters (not deadly but confusing and weird as hell).
Oh yes, these, definitely.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Gizmo » May 23rd, 2017, 1:14 pm

There were Dopplegangers in BT2.

The 5th level sorcerer spell DISRUPT ILLUSION (DIIL) aside from dispelling illusions, reveals any Dopplegangers in the party.

They can slip into empty party slots; and suddenly you have two (or more) of the same (or other) characters.

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » May 23rd, 2017, 4:48 pm

There were Dopplegangers in BT1 and the level-draining creatures included Spectres (the Witch King was one of these) and Vampires.

Would be fun to see a reappearance of these.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Drool » May 23rd, 2017, 10:04 pm

Ether wrote:
May 23rd, 2017, 12:14 am
I also thought you could restore levels in Pool of Radiance. Maybe that was with a scroll though?
I think there was some scrolls you got when you had to go to the graveyard. Perhaps what I'm remembering is them only working to restore 1 level, so if you had 2 drained, you only got 1 back. Something like that. It was a pretty big risk.
Never did try the Level 0 thing.
I found it when I ran through the slums and other areas straight to the library. Needless to say, the spectre librarian really messed up my day.
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
May 23rd, 2017, 4:48 pm
There were Dopplegangers in BT1 and the level-draining creatures included Spectres (the Witch King was one of these) and Vampires.
There was a Doppleganger in BT3 too, but it was a bug. I don't remember the specifics, but it involved somehow loading a party as a single person or something like that. You got a Doppleganger who was Poisoned, Stoned, Withered, Crazy, and Dead. He also had a full inventory pulled randomly from the item list and every spell (except the three specials and Geomancer, I believe). Going into combat with him had a habit of crashing the game.

That inventory thing could be very hit or miss. Getting a Mythril Sword was kinda lame. Getting a Flare Crystal (209) was pretty awesome. Getting Werra's Shield was... well... traumatic.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Crosmando » May 24th, 2017, 12:27 am

Matthias did nothing wrong!

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by thebruce » May 24th, 2017, 6:29 am

Crosmando wrote:
May 24th, 2017, 12:27 am
http://bardstale.wikia.com/wiki/Bard%27 ... nster_List
Ctrl+F and type "Drain a Level"
Also here and search "Drains level" ;)
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Crosmando » May 24th, 2017, 6:50 am

thebruce wrote:
May 24th, 2017, 6:29 am
Crosmando wrote:
May 24th, 2017, 12:27 am
http://bardstale.wikia.com/wiki/Bard%27 ... nster_List
Ctrl+F and type "Drain a Level"
Also here and search "Drains level" ;)
Oh wow, nice. I've been to this site before but never noticed this.

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Shame we'll never see this in BT4, damn you Tolkien lawyers
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Ether » May 24th, 2017, 9:22 pm

Drool wrote:
May 23rd, 2017, 10:04 pm
Ether wrote:
May 23rd, 2017, 12:14 am
I also thought you could restore levels in Pool of Radiance. Maybe that was with a scroll though?
I think there was some scrolls you got when you had to go to the graveyard. Perhaps what I'm remembering is them only working to restore 1 level, so if you had 2 drained, you only got 1 back. Something like that. It was a pretty big risk.
Never did try the Level 0 thing.
I found it when I ran through the slums and other areas straight to the library. Needless to say, the spectre librarian really messed up my day.
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
May 23rd, 2017, 4:48 pm
There were Dopplegangers in BT1 and the level-draining creatures included Spectres (the Witch King was one of these) and Vampires.
There was a Doppleganger in BT3 too, but it was a bug. I don't remember the specifics, but it involved somehow loading a party as a single person or something like that. You got a Doppleganger who was Poisoned, Stoned, Withered, Crazy, and Dead. He also had a full inventory pulled randomly from the item list and every spell (except the three specials and Geomancer, I believe). Going into combat with him had a habit of crashing the game.

That inventory thing could be very hit or miss. Getting a Mythril Sword was kinda lame. Getting a Flare Crystal (209) was pretty awesome. Getting Werra's Shield was... well... traumatic.
So I guess if one wanted to cheat and play with a level 255 character, it wouldn't go well?

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Drool » May 25th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Things didn't work quite right with the character. It's been ages since I did it, but I think not everything got set properly. I know HP did (spend two or three months resting to heal him), but I don't know if THAC0 and such did.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Crosmando » May 25th, 2017, 2:02 pm

How exactly does one cheat in BT? Hex-editor?
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » May 25th, 2017, 5:16 pm

Yeah.

The primary attributes were each one byte - pretty sure I had them all at 255. I believe that spell points and hit points were each two short integers, one for current and one for max - don't remember if they were signed or unsigned - unsigned would make more sense though. I figured out the file format when I was maybe 12 or 13 years old - was a long time ago. Item slots were 8 consecutive bytes, each byte being an index into an items array. Experimentation was how I got items I wanted. I don't remember how wide the conditions field was - I think it was only a byte, since you can fit Poisoned, Withered, Stoned, Dead, Nuts in 5 bits. Also don't remember about determining how items were equipped. Might not have cracked that one, but I assume it was another byte, since there were 8 slots.

(Note that I played most of the game without cheating. It was just the end that I cheated on and that was only because I was worried I was going to be caught, since my mother made me get rid of it and I was playing on the sly.)
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by thebruce » May 25th, 2017, 5:58 pm

Yep, I have a hacking guide here for BT1 character data. Fun stuff :)
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Ether » May 25th, 2017, 11:45 pm

Crosmando wrote:
May 25th, 2017, 2:02 pm
How exactly does one cheat in BT? Hex-editor?
I was actually referring to that glitch Drool described in Pool of Radiance.

Though technically, trying to obtain a level 255 character that way would probably be considered more of an exploit than outright cheating. :D

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by phimseto » May 31st, 2017, 8:33 pm

Can someone refresh my memory on what the drinks were in the tavern and what the various reactions were? Asking for a friend.

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Drool » May 31st, 2017, 8:57 pm

PC version of BT1:

Ale: Not bad!!
Beer: Not bad!!
Mead: Not bad!!
Foul Spirits: You don't feel too well.
Ginger Ale: The girls in the tavern are not impressed.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by phimseto » June 1st, 2017, 8:10 am

Drool wrote:
May 31st, 2017, 8:57 pm
PC version of BT1:

Ale: Not bad!!
Beer: Not bad!!
Mead: Not bad!!
Foul Spirits: You don't feel too well.
Ginger Ale: The girls in the tavern are not impressed.
Huh, I always remembered it as being "The girls in the tavern laugh at you." Was that the case in other versions or is this a video game version of me incorrectly recalling something that was never actually said like "Beam me up, Scotty"?

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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by thebruce » June 1st, 2017, 8:18 am

phimseto wrote:
June 1st, 2017, 8:10 am
Drool wrote:
May 31st, 2017, 8:57 pm
PC version of BT1:

Ale: Not bad!!
Beer: Not bad!!
Mead: Not bad!!
Foul Spirits: You don't feel too well.
Ginger Ale: The girls in the tavern are not impressed.
Huh, I always remembered it as being "The girls in the tavern laugh at you." Was that the case in other versions or is this a video game case of me incorrectly recalling something that was never actually said like "Beam me up, Scotty"?
Hey, the mandela effect! :D
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Drool » June 1st, 2017, 8:07 pm

phimseto wrote:
June 1st, 2017, 8:10 am
Huh, I always remembered it as being "The girls in the tavern laugh at you." Was that the case in other versions or is this a video game version of me incorrectly recalling something that was never actually said like "Beam me up, Scotty"?
Could be. That was all I had easy access to at the time. Lemmie check BT3. Nope, says "Now that's a real thirst quencher!" But, could have been different on different platforms.
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Re: Bard's Tale trilogy signature elements

Post by Zombra » June 2nd, 2017, 1:01 pm

Crosmando wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 10:24 pm
- Paying the barkeep (or the Sage in Sage's Hut) for information or rumours (even if most of the information they gave was bogus). It would be cool if that was kept for BT4, but the information was actually legit and led to hidden secrets or quests.
Note that it sucks if "rumors" are reliably legit. Would be great for a few to lead to secret quests etc. ... but most of the time they should be bogus. I'd even like to see quest log entries that go nowhere, would be a nice change from the "checklist" mentality so many RPGs have nowadays.
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