The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

For all discussion on all the previous Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980s games (Bard's Tale, II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

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jrodman
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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by jrodman » August 27th, 2016, 11:41 am

beta 200 also crashing on startup on win 7 for me:

Event viewer has two events. 1 is an error

Faulting application name: bardstale64.exe, version: 2.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x5770506a
Faulting module name: wbemcomn.dll, version: 6.1.7601.17514, time stamp: 0x4ce7c9fa
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x0000000000014bda
Faulting process id: 0x15e0
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2009234d35891
Faulting application path: D:\Games\oldrpg\BTClassics_Remastered_Beta200\bardstale64.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\system32\wbemcomn.dll
Report Id: 728682e3-6c85-11e6-a7b1-3085a9ecf675

One is "Information"

Fault bucket 249885368, type 28
Event Name: APPCRASH
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: bardstale64.exe
P2: 2.0.0.0
P3: 5770506a
P4: wbemcomn.dll
P5: 6.1.7601.17514
P6: 4ce7c9fa
P7: c0000005
P8: 0000000000014bda
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
C:\Users\jrodman\AppData\Local\Temp\WERC465.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml

These files may be available here:
C:\Users\jrodman\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_bardstale64.exe_a4e87e6ffef5511e7031b795c2ab9ca9a9964_33bdc7fe

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report Id: 728682e3-6c85-11e6-a7b1-3085a9ecf675


The contents of the referenced "report" are:

Version=1
EventType=APPCRASH
EventTime=131167967099516962
ReportType=2
Consent=1
UploadTime=131167967099726974
ReportIdentifier=728682e4-6c85-11e6-a7b1-3085a9ecf675
IntegratorReportIdentifier=728682e3-6c85-11e6-a7b1-3085a9ecf675
Response.BucketId=249885368
Response.BucketTable=28
Response.type=4
Sig[0].Name=Application Name
Sig[0].Value=bardstale64.exe
Sig[1].Name=Application Version
Sig[1].Value=2.0.0.0
Sig[2].Name=Application Timestamp
Sig[2].Value=5770506a
Sig[3].Name=Fault Module Name
Sig[3].Value=wbemcomn.dll
Sig[4].Name=Fault Module Version
Sig[4].Value=6.1.7601.17514
Sig[5].Name=Fault Module Timestamp
Sig[5].Value=4ce7c9fa
Sig[6].Name=Exception Code
Sig[6].Value=c0000005
Sig[7].Name=Exception Offset
Sig[7].Value=0000000000014bda
DynamicSig[1].Name=OS Version
DynamicSig[1].Value=6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
DynamicSig[2].Name=Locale ID
DynamicSig[2].Value=1033
DynamicSig[22].Name=Additional Information 1
DynamicSig[22].Value=a8fe
DynamicSig[23].Name=Additional Information 2
DynamicSig[23].Value=a8feb83f72978ae8e0ad7788a341d055
DynamicSig[24].Name=Additional Information 3
DynamicSig[24].Value=a1ba
DynamicSig[25].Name=Additional Information 4
DynamicSig[25].Value=a1baf7cd8e2aa7fafe693be973bc072d
UI[2]=D:\Games\oldrpg\BTClassics_Remastered_Beta200\bardstale64.exe
UI[3]=Bard's Tale has stopped working
UI[4]=Windows can check online for a solution to the problem.
UI[5]=Check online for a solution and close the program
UI[6]=Check online for a solution later and close the program
UI[7]=Close the program
LoadedModule[0]=D:\Games\oldrpg\BTClassics_Remastered_Beta200\bardstale64.exe
LoadedModule[1]=C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
LoadedModule[2]=C:\Windows\system32\kernel32.dll
LoadedModule[3]=C:\Windows\system32\KERNELBASE.dll
LoadedModule[4]=C:\Windows\system32\OPENGL32.dll
LoadedModule[5]=C:\Windows\system32\msvcrt.dll
LoadedModule[6]=C:\Windows\system32\ADVAPI32.dll
LoadedModule[7]=C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\sechost.dll
LoadedModule[8]=C:\Windows\system32\RPCRT4.dll
LoadedModule[9]=C:\Windows\system32\GDI32.dll
LoadedModule[10]=C:\Windows\system32\USER32.dll
LoadedModule[11]=C:\Windows\system32\LPK.dll
LoadedModule[12]=C:\Windows\system32\USP10.dll
LoadedModule[13]=C:\Windows\system32\GLU32.dll
LoadedModule[14]=C:\Windows\system32\DDRAW.dll
LoadedModule[15]=C:\Windows\system32\DCIMAN32.dll
LoadedModule[16]=C:\Windows\system32\SETUPAPI.dll
LoadedModule[17]=C:\Windows\system32\CFGMGR32.dll
LoadedModule[18]=C:\Windows\system32\OLEAUT32.dll
LoadedModule[19]=C:\Windows\system32\ole32.dll
LoadedModule[20]=C:\Windows\system32\DEVOBJ.dll
LoadedModule[21]=C:\Windows\system32\dwmapi.dll
LoadedModule[22]=C:\Windows\system32\SHELL32.dll
LoadedModule[23]=C:\Windows\system32\SHLWAPI.dll
LoadedModule[24]=C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_5.82.7601.18837_none_a4d981ff711297b6\COMCTL32.dll
LoadedModule[25]=C:\Windows\system32\IMM32.DLL
LoadedModule[26]=C:\Windows\system32\MSCTF.dll
LoadedModule[27]=C:\Windows\system32\nvinitx.dll
LoadedModule[28]=C:\Windows\system32\VERSION.dll
LoadedModule[29]=C:\Windows\system32\api-ms-win-core-synch-l1-2-0.DLL
LoadedModule[30]=C:\Windows\system32\CRYPTBASE.dll
LoadedModule[31]=C:\Windows\system32\IconCodecService.dll
LoadedModule[32]=C:\Windows\system32\WindowsCodecs.dll
LoadedModule[33]=C:\Windows\system32\dinput8.dll
LoadedModule[34]=C:\Windows\system32\HID.DLL
LoadedModule[35]=C:\Windows\system32\WINMM.DLL
LoadedModule[36]=C:\Windows\system32\WINTRUST.dll
LoadedModule[37]=C:\Windows\system32\CRYPT32.dll
LoadedModule[38]=C:\Windows\system32\MSASN1.dll
LoadedModule[39]=C:\Windows\system32\xinput1_3.dll
LoadedModule[40]=C:\Windows\system32\CLBCatQ.DLL
LoadedModule[41]=C:\Windows\system32\wbem\wbemprox.dll
LoadedModule[42]=C:\Windows\system32\wbemcomn.dll
LoadedModule[43]=C:\Windows\system32\WS2_32.dll
LoadedModule[44]=C:\Windows\system32\NSI.dll
State[0].Key=Transport.DoneStage1
State[0].Value=1
State[1].Key=DataRequest
State[1].Value=Bucket=249885368/nBucketTable=28/nResponse=1/n
FriendlyEventName=Stopped working
ConsentKey=APPCRASH
AppName=Bard's Tale
AppPath=D:\Games\oldrpg\BTClassics_Remastered_Beta200\bardstale64.exe


------------
Using process monitor, I see that more or less immediately prior to the crash, something running inside the bardstale64.exe process is attempting to create a reg key multiple times HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WBEM\CIMOM Given the intersection of the crash inside wbemcomn.dll and thes regkey accesses, they may be related (or the regkey stuff may be normal behavior of wbemcomn.dll bringup).

Googling for what this dll is for is part of WMI???? If true, wtf is bardstale using it for? Seems like a mistake.

Will try to figure out how to attach a file to share my system call history during the crashing process.

----------------
Okay, seems we don't have attachment here, so here's a google drive share of the PML (process monitor format) of all the system calls of a crashing bardstale64.exe process https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7byjL ... sp=sharing

Still trying to figure out how to get a DMP or MDMP here. I don't want to install a lot of developer tools on my gaming computer unfortunately.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by jrodman » August 27th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Incidentally, playing this under WINE on a mac, I can't get the bard to play any songs at all, and they don't work outside of combat at all.

The default combat speed is kind of ridiculous. I could understand it back when lots of systems were being targetted and the timing loops were of questionable quality but.. just lower the default.

Movement with ijkl works in dungeons, but not in town.

There's no support for casting spells from a list?

Hitpoints replenish on their own (at least in town during the day). Probably intended, but drastically changes early game balance. Probably a list of intended changes should exist somewhere.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Drool » August 27th, 2016, 3:33 pm

jrodman wrote:Incidentally, playing this under WINE on a mac, I can't get the bard to play any songs at all, and they don't work outside of combat at all.
That's not WINE's fault. They don't work out of combat for anyone.
The default combat speed is kind of ridiculous. I could understand it back when lots of systems were being targetted and the timing loops were of questionable quality but.. just lower the default.
Yeah, it's pretty quick, but I think it can be adjusted in an ini file or something.
Hitpoints replenish on their own (at least in town during the day). Probably intended, but drastically changes early game balance. Probably a list of intended changes should exist somewhere.
I noticed that and wondered if it was intentional. I mean, it's a pretty minor help, and one you hit Conjuror Spell level 2, you have WOHL, so you could technically sit all day and heal with that.

Still, it was really handy when my half-dead party killed the Tarjan statue. I just sat outside K's tower while everyone refreshed. And, again, I could have just sat until I had enough SpPts to drop REST and then let them refresh, but this was slightly faster.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by MickOz » August 27th, 2016, 10:58 pm

You can adjust combat text speed by pressing left or right arrow while the combat text is scolling

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Ragoth » August 28th, 2016, 8:07 pm

jrodman wrote: Hitpoints replenish on their own (at least in town during the day). Probably intended, but drastically changes early game balance. Probably a list of intended changes should exist somewhere.
The regen has always been there during the day for all 3 games, what balances it out are the random encounters that will happen while you sit and wait, its just that the random encounters are not working correctly yet.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » August 29th, 2016, 5:17 pm

Spell point regen is expected during the day (and also works inside the AG in the IIgs version of the first game). I don't recall there being automatic hit point regen.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by jrodman » August 29th, 2016, 5:46 pm

Hitpoints replenishing themselves has not occurred in the following games:

Apple II+ Bard's Tale 1
Apple II+ Bard's Tale 3
Apple IIgs Bard's Tale 1
Apple IIgs Bard's Tale 2
Amiga Bard's Tale 1
Amiga Bard's Tale 2
Amiga Bard's Tale 3
Dos Bard's Tale 1
C64 Bard's Tale 1
C64 Bard's Tale 1 (Tape version)
C64 Bard's Tale 2
C64 Bard''s Tale 3
Spectrum Bard's Tale 1
Macintosh Bard's Tale 1

Probably the other versions too, but those are the ones I've played myself.

There's also no need to tell me that the speed can be adjusted. Note I said "default combat speed", so clearly I know it's adjustable.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Ragoth » August 29th, 2016, 6:18 pm

You're right, spell points would regenerate in sunlight not HP, my mistake.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by jrodman » August 30th, 2016, 1:56 pm

Okay, I'm continuing to play through Bard's Tale 1 taking notes as I go. I have round 25 or so items so far, but I"ll read through this post for dupes before I post it.

However, I wanted to call one thing out early:

The experience point table is b0rked.

When playing through Bard's Tale 1 content, the game uses the Bard's Tale 3 experience point table. This means that basically once you hit level 13, you progress half as fast (or worse) as compared to the original game design.

In Bard''s Tale 1, classes had increasing XP costs up until 13, where the costs were around 200k a level, depending upon class (some were 230k). Sorceror and Wizard had crazy costs, but you typically just changed class at that point.

In Bard's Tale 2, every class gained a level every 200k experience after 13, simplifying things.
In Bard's Tale 3, this was changed to every 400k. And that's the experience point table we're getting so far in the remaster, even for Bard's Tale 1 content. This means it will take around 2x the experience to go from level 13 to 14 or 14 to 15 for basically every class except sorceror or wizard.

A party that didn't grind exp much but just fully explored while mapping might finish the game around level 18-19, and this was already sort of frustrating, because it didn't provide enough resistance to spells for Mangar's tower without a *lot* of lucky rolls and many party wipes in the attempt. I'm pretty sure most people ground out levels in the 397 berserkers encounter or otherwise until they were level 25+. I certainly remember all my friends at the time talking about doing that, and a few years later when someone I knew was playing on the Amiga in another town, he did the same.

With this halved progression, and automap (that speeds up progress through dungeons!) new players are going to be trying to finish the game around level 15, and it's just going to be a terrible experience.

Either experience is going to have to be retuned to be more plentiful overall, the experience point table will need to be put back to Bard's Tale 1 tables, or the casters in Mangar's Tower are going to need their spell skill chances reduced. Something like that.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by waltc » August 31st, 2016, 2:37 pm

jrodman wrote:Hitpoints replenishing themselves has not occurred in the following games:

Amiga Bard's Tale 1
Amiga Bard's Tale 2
Amiga Bard's Tale 3
Dos Bard's Tale 1


Probably the other versions too, but those are the ones I've played myself.

There's also no need to tell me that the speed can be adjusted. Note I said "default combat speed", so clearly I know it's adjustable.
Above are the versions I recall playing...but it was many, many moons ago, so my recollection may be off. But I recall magic items in the game which, when equipped, would regen hit points and spell points--separate items for each, of course. Magic regen squares for each, etc. Hit points regen generally was not as critical as spell points regen because with spell points you can heal everyone, etc. Default combat speed can be changed by editing a value in one of the old skuul folders--detailed instructions reside in this thread and should be easy to find. Also, I've noticed some more questions people have that have already been answered earlier in the thread--so it will pay dividends to peruse the entire thread.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by The Matrix Dragon » September 2nd, 2016, 10:29 am

Troll ring and Troll staff would regen HP. Mage staff would regen SP, Conjurstaff halved SP cost of spells.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Startide » September 4th, 2016, 12:41 pm

The sorcerer spell Mindblade is attacking party members.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by azraelck » September 19th, 2016, 1:03 pm

IIRC there was also a Bard's Song, Badh'r Kilnfest, which did party hp regen in combat, Bard only when out of combat, in BT1. Is it possible that the combat effect is being ran during daylight hours? TBH, I always felt the combat effect should have been the only effect, which would have made it more useful. As it is, I never bothered with it, just used the AC song.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by jrodman » September 22nd, 2016, 7:14 am

waltc wrote:
jrodman wrote:Hitpoints replenishing themselves has not occurred in the following games:

Amiga Bard's Tale 1
Amiga Bard's Tale 2
Amiga Bard's Tale 3
Dos Bard's Tale 1


Probably the other versions too, but those are the ones I've played myself.

There's also no need to tell me that the speed can be adjusted. Note I said "default combat speed", so clearly I know it's adjustable.
... I recall magic items in the game which, when equipped, would regen hit points and spell points--separate items .. squares ...
Yes of course, but none of that is regenerating hitpoints walking around in town without any items or any squares, which is what I reported.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Darth Trethon » September 29th, 2016, 11:32 pm

Is the remaster still being worked on? Six months since the last beta update is a pretty long time.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by kyeo138 » October 3rd, 2016, 8:15 am

I'm curious too, I've been itching to replay the original but patiently waiting for the remaster to be released. Any updates on that front?

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by zenoen » October 7th, 2016, 9:55 am

I wouldn't be suprised to find out Rebecca Heinemann is focusing on her own game right now.

Need to work to make money, to live, eat, and pay bills.

We know that they weren't going to pay her a lot for the project I bet they haven't paid her at all

yet and so she is having to prioritize her other job over this project.

I really hope that some day I can play Bards Tale Remastered but I also understand that we may be waiting a while.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Drool » October 7th, 2016, 12:39 pm

zenoen wrote:I wouldn't be suprised to find out Rebecca Heinemann is focusing on her own game right now.
I dunno. Battle Chess hasn't gotten an update in, like, a year now.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by ZZGO » October 8th, 2016, 5:59 am

Okay, newcomer here - I only learned of Bard's Tale IV a week or so ago, and immediately pledged.
The "remastered" offering sounds very cool, a trip down memory lane. Turns out Bard's Tale stood the test of time better than I feared. Shame that the beta version is essentially unplayable.
A few remarks/suggestions from a fresh pair of eyes, although I should also point out that I've only really played BT I from the beta at this point (I'm not repeating what others have said, such as Bard Songs not working, and no wandering monsters):

- I don't (at this point) see why jumping between games via the Adventurer's Guild could even work. Storyline-wise, the three games are strictly sequential, and until you've dispatched Mangar you explicitly cannot leave Skara Brae. It's of course absolutely required that characters can be transferred from one game to the next; but I take it there are certain differences in the data block from game to game (such as BT I assuming all characters are male, or the extra classes offered in BT III). What would happen to my Chronomancer if I were to jump from BT III back to BT I?
In summary, I feel lumping the three games into comes with certain issues but doesn't seem to have tangible benefits. I think I'd prefer three separate games (maybe still from the same launcher) where I can import characters from a previous game to begin the subsequent one; but simply jumping between games with the same party is just weird.

- The save option does change the gameplay. A lot. I would very much prefer the "save" file to be a complete, self-containing snapshot of the game including full stats and equipment for all characters and all triggers/settings in the current dungeon, time. It should be totally separate from the character saves performed in the Adventurer's Guild, perhaps even to the point where restoring a saved game would restore a character who was deleted in the Guild.
To wit: I prefer to keep the old "save only by saving characters in the Guild" option overall, but I do appreciate the modern Save option for when I have to leave the computer before I can return to the Guild.

- While I'm in wishful thinking mode, could there be an option or tool to rename characters?

- I've noticed that statues don't seem to respawn when you switch between the city and a dungeon, though the Samurai statue did respawn once (and only once) for me. Not sure when, how or why. I had several parties wiped out, started new ones, entered and left the cellars, and no matter what I did or what happened, the statue wouldn't reappear except for one instance. The Samurai statue was a good XP grinding point for beginner parties imho.

- I'm an idiot, and pretty much a black box user when it comes to computers these days. A fool-proof tool in the launcher to adjust settings like screen size and perhaps scroll speed, and perhaps reset the game, would be welcome. The former (screen size somehow adjusted to full-size, or screen resolution changed accordingly) would be particularly welcome.

Um, yeah. Hope this feedback is somehow helpful. Keep up the good work Mrs. Heinemann!

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Re: The Bard's Tale Remastered - Beta 2.00 Released

Post by Drool » October 8th, 2016, 12:51 pm

ZZGO wrote:I don't (at this point) see why jumping between games via the Adventurer's Guild could even work.
I think that's just a somewhat convenient way to switch. I'm sure it's not supposed to be "in character" any more than rolling stats is. Also, I doubt that we'll be able to move characters backwards through the game. Aside from the horrible power imbalance issues that would arise from bringing post-Malefia characters in to fight Mangar, I can't imagine the nightmare of coding in support for Chronomancer and Geomancer spells. To say nothing of BT not even having range.

Although, at times it would be really fun to bring NUKE in to BT1.
I've noticed that statues don't seem to respawn when you switch between the city and a dungeon, though the Samurai statue did respawn once (and only once) for me.
I'm not sure what the respawn mechanic is. I think it might be tied to the in game clock or something. I've had all the statues respawn, but I never know if they're going to be there or not.
A fool-proof tool in the launcher to adjust settings like screen size and perhaps scroll speed, and perhaps reset the game, would be welcome.
Fully agreed!
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