Maxing your characters

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BatchElder69
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Maxing your characters

Post by BatchElder69 » October 12th, 2015, 9:25 pm

does anyone know what the 'max' skill point total is on the stat's?
I remember me and my friend spending time (hours) to get the characters we wanted to have high stats.
Sofar when totaling the 5 stats (not counting the HP's), I get 12+13+11+18+17 = 71
:)

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by Drool » October 14th, 2015, 11:04 pm

Ages ago, I ran a BT3 party up to insane levels, and I believe attributes maxed at 30.
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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by BatchElder69 » October 15th, 2015, 6:11 pm

hehehe almost, what I mean is...
When creating the toons we have the 5 stats, we added them together to see how 'high' we could get for a starting character.
I got to 73 last night with a Half-Elf bard, 16 + 15 + 15 + 14 + 13 = 73 points amongst the 5 stats

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » October 15th, 2015, 9:05 pm

I think it depends on platform. One time I recorded the max stats for various races. I initially did this via an Atari or DOS emulator and then later switched to an Apple IIgs emulator. After I had switched to the IIgs emulator, I was surprised to see that the max was shifted upwards by one.

But, to more directly attempt to answer your question: there is base stat for every race and then a die roll on top of that. I do not know the probability distribution of the die roll, as I never recorded that in any great detail. As far as I know, the die rolls are independent of one another and so you could potentially roll the max for each stat, where the max will vary by race. (E.g., on the Apple IIgs, a Half-Elf has the following maxima: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 16, Lck 14 - whether you can ever roll all of those at the same time depends on whether the rolls are independent of one another and uncapped by a stats max.)

I have a spreadsheet I can share, if you are interested.

Oh, and with regards to what Drool said, which I know doesn't answer your question, each stat is stored as a byte in the character file and so can be artificially pushed to 255 (been there, done that). However, BT1 limits natural (in-game) stat advancement to 18. As Drools says, the natural limit was raised in a later version.
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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by Drool » October 15th, 2015, 11:22 pm

Hmm... fiddling around and rolling humans, mid-60s seem common. Just rolled a 70 (17, 13, 15, 15, 10) and a 72 (17, 13, 15, 15, 12).
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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by ad1066 » October 19th, 2015, 1:18 pm

Seeing as how the system was very obviously influenced by D&D, I'm guessing the normal range on attributes at character creation would be 3d6, or 3-18, with the normal bell curve one would expect (plus/minus racial attribute adjustments).

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » October 19th, 2015, 8:20 pm

ad1066 wrote:Seeing as how the system was very obviously influenced by D&D, I'm guessing the normal range on attributes at character creation would be 3d6, or 3-18, with the normal bell curve one would expect (plus/minus racial attribute adjustments).
There are per-race base stats with something like a 1d8 on top. At least on the Apple IIgs, the minimum stat is a 4 (base of 3 + roll of 1). A Gnome can have Con 4, a Dwarf can have Lck 4, and a Half-Orc can have Int 4.
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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by HawkSlayer » October 25th, 2015, 4:51 pm

This depends on the race. Some races have better starting stats than others. 73 is most likely the highest total at level 1. Because you gain +1 stat each level I visualized it as how many levels till the character is straight 18s. Anything 21 or less I usually accepted because I'm not going to roll for an hour just to get a max that will max out anyways. It's more important to get a mage with high int(free mana per level) or a front liner with high CON(free health per level) than whether it takes level 17 or 20 to max 18. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone saw a half elf with 74 total @ level 1. Also, the DOS version everyone starts with +10 free health. Making it a joke compared to the other versions difficulties. Having magic users who gain 1-4 health per level start with 29 health is a world of difference from the original version of BT1.

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by potra » November 14th, 2018, 5:08 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
October 15th, 2015, 9:05 pm
I think it depends on platform. One time I recorded the max stats for various races. I initially did this via an Atari or DOS emulator and then later switched to an Apple IIgs emulator. After I had switched to the IIgs emulator, I was surprised to see that the max was shifted upwards by one.

But, to more directly attempt to answer your question: there is base stat for every race and then a die roll on top of that. I do not know the probability distribution of the die roll, as I never recorded that in any great detail. As far as I know, the die rolls are independent of one another and so you could potentially roll the max for each stat, where the max will vary by race. (E.g., on the Apple IIgs, a Half-Elf has the following maxima: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 16, Lck 14 - whether you can ever roll all of those at the same time depends on whether the rolls are independent of one another and uncapped by a stats max.)

I have a spreadsheet I can share, if you are interested.

Oh, and with regards to what Drool said, which I know doesn't answer your question, each stat is stored as a byte in the character file and so can be artificially pushed to 255 (been there, done that). However, BT1 limits natural (in-game) stat advancement to 18. As Drools says, the natural limit was raised in a later version.
You have a spreadsheet of the max stats for the IIGS version?!!!! I would LOVE to have a copy.

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by Zadkiel » November 14th, 2018, 9:51 pm

If you truly want to 'max your characters' then no stat other than Con (and Int for mages only) matter - all the other stats apply their bonusses regardless of level, for example it doesn't matter if you started with 9 dex or 17 dex, once you raise the dex stat the bonusses you get from it are the same - however the HP bonus from levelling from having 15+ Con is NOT retroactively applied on stat gain.

Once you get to max stats from levelling, only your starting Con (and Int for casters) make any difference.

I'll take 65 in total stats with max Con/Int than 73 total and those stats lower any day.

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by KorganBloodAxe » November 15th, 2018, 1:03 am

Zadkiel wrote:
November 14th, 2018, 9:51 pm

I'll take 65 in total stats with max Con/Int than 73 total and those stats lower any day.
edit: redacted my response as I realised you were talking about maximum potential at end game.

Although I think in the remasters you are still better off just spending an extra 1 minute (per character) to grind another level rather than worry too much about starting stats.

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » November 15th, 2018, 5:26 pm

potra wrote:
November 14th, 2018, 5:08 pm
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
October 15th, 2015, 9:05 pm
I think it depends on platform. One time I recorded the max stats for various races. I initially did this via an Atari or DOS emulator and then later switched to an Apple IIgs emulator. After I had switched to the IIgs emulator, I was surprised to see that the max was shifted upwards by one.

But, to more directly attempt to answer your question: there is base stat for every race and then a die roll on top of that. I do not know the probability distribution of the die roll, as I never recorded that in any great detail. As far as I know, the die rolls are independent of one another and so you could potentially roll the max for each stat, where the max will vary by race. (E.g., on the Apple IIgs, a Half-Elf has the following maxima: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 16, Lck 14 - whether you can ever roll all of those at the same time depends on whether the rolls are independent of one another and uncapped by a stats max.)

I have a spreadsheet I can share, if you are interested.
You have a spreadsheet of the max stats for the IIGS version?!!!! I would LOVE to have a copy.
Image

The data was empirically gathered was gathered from 25 rolls per race. Disassemblies of other versions of the game confirm similar distributions, but shifted by -1. Hope this helps.

Gnomes are the worst race to pick in terms of average starting stats. However, they have the highest Intelligence, which pays out the biggest SP bonus over time, so they can make decent mages.
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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by potra » December 17th, 2018, 12:39 pm

Awesome! THANK YOU SO MUCH!

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Re: Maxing your characters

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » December 17th, 2018, 5:09 pm

You're welcome!
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