Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by jamespodesta » June 1st, 2018, 3:21 am

FYI it was Paul from InXile that said "Summer". it's not really an Australian thing to use seasons as dates, since most of our customers are in a different hemisphere to us.
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by narcissus79 » June 2nd, 2018, 1:10 am

jamespodesta wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 3:21 am
FYI it was Paul from InXile that said "Summer". it's not really an Australian thing to use seasons as dates, since most of our customers are in a different hemisphere to us.
good point!! get your arse in gear and bung it on anyway !!

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 8th, 2018, 2:56 pm

ZiN wrote:
May 17th, 2018, 1:50 pm
Indeed it is and a very ambitious undertaking! That's over 200 portraits to redraw and animate, if we count the whole trilogy. And OMG, that gameworld... I can hardly believe how high-quality this is looking like. And they plan to add sounds, tooltips, automap, etc. A great task indeed! Best of luck(laran) to Krome Studios!

I'm hoping they also plan to remaster the bard songs (based on the IIGS versions), Pieces of 8-bit style.

When I was looking at the update and saw the redrawn portraits, I was thinking: "Wow, that looks really cool, I wonder if the animations are still in?"
Then, I scrolled down and saw this:
Image
Boom! Mind blown!

Funny thing is, pretty sure the gameworld window-frame was drawn by Jennell Jaquays of Olde Skuul.
Hello, this looks promising and is this a freebie for the backers or where should I look to find out more about it?
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Dcdoc45 » July 10th, 2018, 3:02 pm

Any new updates on the progress of the remasters?

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 10th, 2018, 5:17 pm

There's some more info in the KS update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... ts/2233940
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Lanatir » July 14th, 2018, 10:35 am

I reached a point now, seeing how bt4 turned out, that the only reason i still care about my pledge is the remaster of bt 1-3.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 14th, 2018, 11:37 am

Yeah, your sentiment is shared by a number of people around here. I wish Krome all the best on the remasters. And, I hope inXile doesn't sink its claws into Krome too deeply, in attempt to boost the "BT IV" game or anything like that. Rather, my hope is that independent sales of the remasters will show inXile how wrong it was to ignore the fan base.
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by sinbuster » July 14th, 2018, 2:58 pm

Does anyone know when we can choose between GOG or Steam for our digital copy? Normally I'd go GOG for this sort of title but the Steam early access for BT1 is too good to pass up.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by phimseto » July 15th, 2018, 5:13 am

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 14th, 2018, 11:37 am
Yeah, your sentiment is shared by a number of people around here. I wish Krome all the best on the remasters. And, I hope inXile doesn't sink its claws into Krome too deeply, in attempt to boost the "BT IV" game or anything like that. Rather, my hope is that independent sales of the remasters will show inXile how wrong it was to ignore the fan base.
Yes, that horrible inXile who made a significant investment to fund the remasters, are working with Krome in developing them, and delivering the project above and beyond what any Bard's Tale fan could have reasonably expected because it was important to us to deliver them to our backers. Yet we ignore the fans. Coal in our stocking this year for sure.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by balinor » July 15th, 2018, 7:03 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 5:13 am
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 14th, 2018, 11:37 am
Yeah, your sentiment is shared by a number of people around here. I wish Krome all the best on the remasters. And, I hope inXile doesn't sink its claws into Krome too deeply, in attempt to boost the "BT IV" game or anything like that. Rather, my hope is that independent sales of the remasters will show inXile how wrong it was to ignore the fan base.
Yes, that horrible inXile who made a significant investment to fund the remasters, are working with Krome in developing them, and delivering the project above and beyond what any Bard's Tale fan could have reasonably expected because it was important to us to deliver them to our backers. Yet we ignore the fans. Coal in our stocking this year for sure.
I get that criticism (justified or not) can be painful at times, but sarcasm rarely is a good defence against it. To be fair, inxile have ignored the fans on quite a few things regarding BT4, there are comments throughout this forum that repeatedly bang this drum. Wasteland 2 also suffered from the same problem. I sometimes think there is an echo chamber at inxile in this regard.

That being said, I'm sure all of the fans (old and new) do appreciate the remasters coming from Krome, so let me just say to the whole inxile team, thank you. While I dislike the route you have taken to get here, I appreciate what you are trying to do.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 15th, 2018, 7:15 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 5:13 am
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 14th, 2018, 11:37 am
Yeah, your sentiment is shared by a number of people around here. I wish Krome all the best on the remasters. And, I hope inXile doesn't sink its claws into Krome too deeply, in attempt to boost the "BT IV" game or anything like that. Rather, my hope is that independent sales of the remasters will show inXile how wrong it was to ignore the fan base.
Yes, that horrible inXile who made a significant investment to fund the remasters, are working with Krome in developing them, and delivering the project above and beyond what any Bard's Tale fan could have reasonably expected because it was important to us to deliver them to our backers. Yet we ignore the fans. Coal in our stocking this year for sure.
Hey Paul, I don't think anyone is ungrateful to inXile for including the remasters as part of the BT IV project. Indeed, if I haven't said it before, then, thank you. But, let's not treat the remasters as some sort of appeasement device or consolation prize for old school fans. Your employer said that it was going to make a new member of the Bard's Tale series and it hasn't done so. We, as fans, can still try to hold your employer to account for this, regardless of whatever good they may have done by enabling the remasters.

(As far as your commitment to the remasters goes, I will say that it look an awfully long time for you to drop Olde Skuul. Out of all the business partners you've chosen in relation to the BT IV project (CrowdOx, Xsolla, Olde Skuul), Krome seems to be the only good choice that has been made - and that was one very long in the coming.)

Let me ask you this, where is the "New Bard's Tale from inXile is Amazing!" thread and where is the unreserved outpouring of support for your new game as opposed to the Krome remasters?
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by phimseto » July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am

The positive comments have been coming to us in a steady stream since the beta released across our different platforms. There are plenty of old-school fans who have been won over, just as there are others like yourself who have mostly written the game off. inXile is not just listening to the good, though, but are taking in the criticism, reported problems, and suggestions (like the control functionality for disabled gamers). Beyond that, it's a beta. We're not expecting unreserved outpouring, but we've been very happy with the overall reception so far. People are having fun with the game. Even in our bug reporting, many of the items start off with stuff like "LOVE THE GAME SO FAR!" before reporting this or that glitch.

As for not delivering a new entry into the Bard's Tale series, I disagree with that narrative completely, certainly with the absolutism of it. Speaking as a backer, and remember the game was just under two years production before I joined the company, I recognized that Bard's Tale IV wasn't going to be what I expected or necessarily "wanted" within about three seconds of perusing the Kickstarter pitch back in 2015. From my backer's vantage, inXile is delivering pretty much the game they laid out in the Kickstarter. As a backer, I am getting with Bard's Tale IV the same thing that I received with Wasteland 2 - a sequel to a thirty-year old game that reflects those years of difference while retaining the narrative from before, with that particular blending not always as smooth as it can be. With BT4, this is more pronounced because we have a sequel that is also softly rebooting the world more solidly in its Scottish elements. That doesn't mean that what came before never happened and it doesn't mean that certain elements (halflings, orcs, half-elves, etc.) couldn't return down the road. I'm fine with that for both this game itself, The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep, and the possibility of future Bard's Tale games and what they might be. I am not alone in this viewpoint as a veteran fan, same as you aren't alone in yours.

Regarding Olde Skuul, anyone in the forums should remember that the remasters were never our project to begin with. They were Olde Skuul's, and solely because fans asked, inXile offered to throw them in for free as a cherry on top of our own crowdfunding commitments and made an arrangement with Olde Skuul to pay for the right to do so when the games were completed. There wasn't much inXile could do when the delays set in, and it took a great deal of work to transition the project from Olde Skuul to Krome (I should know, because I did 90% of it). That transition happened as soon as it was able to, and the fact that we're so close to having at least the first game out is a minor miracle in and of itself, a credit to Brian, Matt, Chris and the team at inXile, the great people at Krome, a number of knowledgeable fans (including yourself), and even Olde Skuul for working with us to make this new course a reality.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Drool » July 15th, 2018, 9:40 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
I recognized that Bard's Tale IV wasn't going to be what I expected or necessarily "wanted" within about three seconds of the perusing the Kickstarter pitch back in 2015. From my backer's vantage, inXile is delivering pretty much the game they laid out in the Kickstarter.
For all my gripes about the game, I can't really object to this. The current beta looks to be a pretty close match to the Kickstarter; moreso than even Wasteland 2. For better or worse.
phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
we have a sequel that is also softly rebooting the world more solidly in its Scottish elements
...that it never had outside its name. I understand why it was done for BT2004; inXile only had rights to the title, so going back to the roots made sense: EA couldn't claim copyright on a four thousand year old settlement. But that's not the case any more, so it just feels off and weird.
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 15th, 2018, 10:36 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
As for not delivering a new entry into the Bard's Tale series, I disagree with that narrative completely, certainly with the absolutism of it. Speaking as a backer, and remember the game was just under two years production before I joined the company, I recognized that Bard's Tale IV wasn't going to be what I expected or necessarily "wanted" within about three seconds of perusing the Kickstarter pitch back in 2015.
When I backed the game, I recognized that it needed work from the initial pitch as well. However, I also assumed that we, as fans, would have an input channel into the development of the game as it progressed. There was a small victory in terms of party size, early on, which encouraged us to think that we could make a difference. But then, I don't recall any ability to move the needle beyond that.

The "absolutism" comes from there being a threshold that, when you look at the game in whole, it is either a Bard's Tale game or isn't it. If being a Bard's Tale was truly a spectrum, then we could call any dungeon crawler a Bard's Tale game.
phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
With BT4, this is more pronounced because we have a sequel that is also softly rebooting the world more solidly in its Scottish elements.
I agree with Drool's comment on this. And about other retroactively constructed lore, in general. This is an example of where your employer could've reached out to the community of fans that have been hanging out in its forum and we could've constructively engaged with you about how to best extend the lore in a consistent fashion. (This is not a personal criticism of you or sear, btw, in your roles as community liaisons.)
phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
That doesn't mean that what came before never happened and it doesn't mean that certain elements (halflings, orcs, half-elves, etc.) couldn't return down the road.
Part of the question is why it didn't happen this time though.
phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
arrangement with Olde Skuul to pay for the right to do so when the games were completed. There wasn't much inXile could do when the delays set in, and it took a great deal of work to transition the project from Olde Skuul to Krome (I should know, because I did 90% of it). That transition happened as soon as it was able to, and the fact that we're so close to having at least the first game out is a minor miracle in and of itself, a credit to Brian, Matt, Chris and the team at inXile, the great people at Krome
I appreciate your effort, really. And, again, thank you for making it happen. I don't know what took place behind the scenes, but from the perspective of a relative outsider, it seemed your company let the situation with Olde Skuul languish long after it was clear that it wasn't going to work. But, I'll accept your statement that it happened as soon as it could at face value and will just hope that Krome has enough time to work with in terms of whatever release schedule they are on.
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by ZiN » July 15th, 2018, 11:00 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
Speaking as a backer...
Perhaps it would be a good idea to activate your backer forum badge. And also activate it for the other backers who've been asking for it for several months now...

You have also defended ToN the same way you're defending BT4 now, so yeah, I'm a bit skeptical, but I'm glad you guys at least have confidence.
phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
With BT4, this is more pronounced because we have a sequel that is also softly rebooting the world more solidly in its Scottish elements.
The world didn't have any Scottish elements. At all. It was the world of BT2004 that had Scottish elements, but you have specifically stated in the Kickstarter, that BT4 won't have anything to do with that game. And yet, you're "soflty rebooting". No wonder we're not too keen on your "soft reboots" especially after you have kept on beating the the "old-school, true-sequel" drum so loudly. Do you honestly believe you're some cool indie developers, working together with the fans and not caring about chasing the mass market, but making a true Bard's Tale?

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Lanatir » July 16th, 2018, 3:20 am

Here is a suggestion. you publish this thing that you think is a proper Bards Tale 4, and then you let Krome on their own make a game that THEY think is a Bards Tale 4. Then you make a vote on the Forums of what the backers think is a true sequel.
I could list so many things that separates this game from a true Bards Tale experience. But it has been done here already plenty of times, and instead of answering those requests and explaining why you did it the way you did, you just keep ignoring it. I havent heard one solid reason for why you went with freeform movement and just added gridbased movement on top of it. Or why you didnt include random encounters. What about the missing races? Ah, yes, i forgot, we are in scotland now, because bt2004. What about the atrocious humour? What about the lore inconsistencies? Why dont we get answers?

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by ZZGO » July 16th, 2018, 4:00 am

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 10:36 am
When I backed the game, I recognized that it needed work from the initial pitch as well. However, I also assumed that we, as fans, would have an input channel into the development of the game as it progressed. There was a small victory in terms of party size, early on, which encouraged us to think that we could make a difference. But then, I don't recall any ability to move the needle beyond that.
Design by committee pretty much guarantees a bad product.
I say InXile should make the game they envision as Bard's Tale IV, with as much or as little outside input as they see fit. I'll judge the end product when I see it.

Fun fact: It may turn out that I won't be able to play BT IV on my computer, simply because it's a laptop for work and not a gaming rig. I never expected a Bard's Tale game to have any noteworthy hardware requirements, given that you can essentially play the old games on a modern digital watch.
(I have the same problem with the BattleTech kickstarter - I backed but I can't play. The game just laughs at my system... very slowly.)

Depending on how Krome go about the remasters, it may well turn out they're the only games from this Kickstarter that I can play at this time. I am very happy about the remasters. I realize it was a free offering from Olde Skuul and InXile have now taken it upon themselves to fulfill this offering via Krome Studios, for which I am very thankful. I don't know (nor even particularly want to know) what happened or didn't happen between InXile and Olde Skuul, but given that InXile forged an "agreement" I both think and hope that the project passing from Olde Skuul to Krome Studios was an amiable, or at least civilized, process.
But like I've said before, the game I paid for is Bard's Tale IV. I've already played and completed I - III back in the day. The Remasters are just the icing on the cake.

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by sinbuster » July 16th, 2018, 5:09 am

phimseto wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
The positive comments have been coming to us in a steady stream since the beta released across our different platforms. There are plenty of old-school fans who have been won over, just as there are others like yourself who have mostly written the game off....
Hey phimseto, glad to hear the beta is going well. For the record I'm excited for both the remasters and a new bard's tale game - hopefully it leads to more. You can never have enough party-based rpgs imho. I see you overlooked my question however. When will we be able to choose between GOG or Steam? I'd really like to play BT1 as soon as possible. Do I need to redo my survey?

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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by Themadcow » July 16th, 2018, 6:21 am

ZZGO wrote:
July 16th, 2018, 4:00 am
Fun fact: It may turn out that I won't be able to play BT IV on my computer, simply because it's a laptop for work and not a gaming rig. I never expected a Bard's Tale game to have any noteworthy hardware requirements, given that you can essentially play the old games on a modern digital watch.
(I have the same problem with the BattleTech kickstarter - I backed but I can't play. The game just laughs at my system... very slowly.)
Well, my GTX1070 gets fairly warm while playing the Beta, so I think it'll be difficult on a non-gaming rig.

But generally I just wanted to lend my support to this remaster project. It looks great so far and I can't wait to try it out (soon?).

I doubt it would ever happen, but if you ever get bored then there's also the Bards Tale Construction set... ;)
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Re: Remaster from Krome Studios is amazing!

Post by thebruce » July 16th, 2018, 7:55 am

A thought that came to mind this past week... (warning, long read, haha)

It's often been stated (mainly by Brian) that we should envision this not so much as BTIV, but more like BTXIV - jumping a few iterations into the future of the series and what it may look like because of the 30 year gap.
Well... that mentality assumes a development progression of 30 years of successful design decisions, all thing being equal. It presumes that the series, with each iteration's updates and changes, were overall successful products. With that mentality in mind, I can understand why so much has changed from the original trilogy. And why so many things are controversial at best regarding the series, not necessarily the gameplay. Among those changes are a number of game mechanics that have been proven successful in other games over time, so they've been adopted and adapted. But also among those changes are a number of Bard's Tale trilogy series changes that have not likewise had the same test of time and validation for success. So, BT4 may be a successful game, but this release is going to test, effectively, 30 years of untested Bard's Tale brand changes as well.

Whereas Krome's remasters are effectively based on the opposite (recognizing it's not a new original game directly). Rather than assuming 30 years of everything-has-changed-and-improved-with-prior-releases-so-this-should-work, gameplay mechanics are getting a slight update while attempting to retain the legacy mode for as accurate a gameplay as possible, and in regards to the Bard's Tale brand, obviously everything is being kept as close to the original as conceivably possible. Of course, this is a remaster and not a sequel.

I know it's a daunting task to create a sequel, recognizing decades of evolution of gaming culture and yet attempting to build a single digit followup game in a sequential series. Other game franchises have produced many releases where are some series, and some are spin-offs or satellite games using different mechanics or even set in a completely different game genre (but the same lore universe/timeline). Those don't typically adopt series naming schemes, for obvious reasons. In those cases, even after many years, you'll note that the vast majority of the core mechanics across sequential numbered releases remains consistent, while other aspects like graphic fidelity, artistic license, gameplay features and tweaks, tricks and stats and whatnot get improvement, and of course the series/linear story progresses.

With a series, you get a feel for what its 'core mechanics' are by what remains the same throughout successful iterations. If any of those core aspects changes, it's really really hard to consider it a sequel. Not that it can't be released as a game in the franchise, even a highly successful one. Maybe a precedent can be set if every incremental release is dramatically different than its predecessor; in those cases the expectation is already set - there's little no game mechanic/genre style retained between releases. But to my knowledge that's a rare strategy in a consecutive numbered series.


I do have high hopes, like phimseto oft repeats, that if BT4 is successful, then BT5 will provide opportunity to revive even more of the 'untested in modern times' original mechanics and content. But... it is hard to feel that this will come to pass, when the whole point of BT #4 was to treat it as if there were 30 years of (successful) sequels justifying its evolutionary changes from the trilogy -- why would BT #5 then afford an opportunity to .. well, 'regress' back a few decades in any manner rather than continue to "improve"? *shrug*
I really hope that's the case, but my expectations aren't as high as my hopes...

So, I feel like I may be changing my tune slightly.

It's not to me that BT4 "isn't Bard's Tale" - not as much as it isn't Bard's Tale 4. I think there are sufficient lore and gameplay concepts to still get that feeling of being in the Bard's Tale universe (other than the fact that everything has suddenly become Scottish which never existed in the series; well, if one ignores BT2004; plus unless things are explained, the fact that it's a coastal environment now).
This really does feel more like a Bard's Tale 2018, or even just Bard's Tale: Barrow's Deep.

Krome's remasters I'm coming to think serve a greater chance of producing (based on my comments above) a more appropriate sequel to be labeled Bard's Tale 4, if the engine can be reused to create an additional full-length game. Perhaps even with a few more 'modern' updates. (I'd be REALLY fascinated to see someone hack a mod together to create inXile's BT4 in the remasters' engine :lol: )

Considering not much changed engine-wise through BT1-3, it's not far-fetched to think that BT4 would actually be quite similar to the originals.

Now of course that means that such a BT4 would inevitably be a far cry from a mass-market AAA role playing game.
But is that really a necessity for a successful game release in this day and age? Many highly successful smartphone games costing $2-$15 still provide many many hours of gameplay time... (not that I'm saying BT4 should be a smartphone game; although BT2004's mechanics/genre is pretty good for that platform)

I truly do hope that Krome's remastered engine doesn't see its end with the release of the game. I would LOVE to see a full-fledge game released using this engine. Even if it can't be named Bard's Tale 4 since that's now been taken ;D

And once again: Disclaimed through all the above - I am not admitting in the slightest that I think inXile's BT4 is a sub-par game. I'm merely taking a look at how it places in the sequential series of BT1-3+, as objectively as I know how. And, if I can play it with the lowest graphic settings and play smoothly, then I'm sure I'll get to enjoy it for all the hard work that inXile put into it. And I'm super-thankful that they ran with providing the original trilogy remastered at no extra expense to us, and decided to move to Krome and work with them to provide that quality release!

So, in my mind, we have:
* Tales of the Unknown: The Bard's Tale [1], Bard's Tale: The Destiny Knight [2], Bard's Tale: The Thief of Fate [3]
* Bard's Tale 2004
* The Mage's Tale
* Tales of the Unknown: The Bard's Tale Remastered

And my head canon is now leading me to consider the addition of:
* Bard's Tale: Barrow's Deep

(which btw also strays from the trilogy series convention in that the sub-titling doesn't highlight the spotlight class for the release)
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