For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by shmerl » September 30th, 2018, 9:04 am

eisberg wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 1:42 am
That actually makes no sense at all, because uploading it through the dev portal still gives GoG the files for them to make the offline installers as well. Uploading it through the dev portal has no effect on those who don't use Galaxy.
Yeah, using Galaxy for upload doesn't stop GOG from making a standalone package.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Drool » September 30th, 2018, 1:20 pm

eisberg wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 1:42 am
That actually makes no sense at all, because uploading it through the dev portal still gives GoG the files for them to make the offline installers as well. Uploading it through the dev portal has no effect on those who don't use Galaxy.
Considering I was responding to someone wondering why the legacy system still existed, my point makes perfect sense.
shmerl wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 9:04 am
Yeah, using Galaxy for upload doesn't stop GOG from making a standalone package.
Yes. And? That still requires GOG to, you know, actually make the package.
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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by shmerl » September 30th, 2018, 1:29 pm

Drool wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 1:20 pm
Yes. And? That still requires GOG to, you know, actually make the package.
That's why delay for it is expected. The point was about the idea that using Galaxy for upload somehow would prevent GOG from offering DRM-free option.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by syntaxhorror » September 30th, 2018, 2:15 pm

Drool wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 1:20 pm
eisberg wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 1:42 am
That actually makes no sense at all, because uploading it through the dev portal still gives GoG the files for them to make the offline installers as well. Uploading it through the dev portal has no effect on those who don't use Galaxy.
Considering I was responding to someone wondering why the legacy system still existed, my point makes perfect sense.
shmerl wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 9:04 am
Yeah, using Galaxy for upload doesn't stop GOG from making a standalone package.
Yes. And? That still requires GOG to, you know, actually make the package.
Actually no, from what I see happening at least with Pathfinder patches, the patch installers for the offline version seem to be generated automatically from what was posted on the dev update channel - yesterday's patch dropped at night here in Europe, roughly same time as Steam, and was both available on Galaxy and as an offline installer. I don't think GoG has people working Saturday nights to integrate patches and make installers by hand.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Surebow » September 30th, 2018, 5:21 pm

This isn't a GOG issue. Inxile has had problems with getting keys to backers and patches for both Bard's Tale titles (remastered and 4) on that platform (my preferred). Based on their performance of the rollout of the Bard's Tale titles, this will be the last title of theirs I will support through a kickstarter.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Themadcow » October 1st, 2018, 2:55 am

I downloaded two things this weekend on Steam - a 2nd incremental patch for BT4 at 7.1GB that took me 10-15 mins on fibre cable, and the entire game of Vaporum at 1.8GB. Bizarre.
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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by syntaxhorror » October 1st, 2018, 3:09 pm

Well, the patch has finally dropped on galaxy and it's 26Gb. Again. That's just ridiculous.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by smithkt » October 1st, 2018, 5:54 pm

The silence on this speaks volumes.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by sear » October 11th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Hey guys, we were able to resolve the kinks in the pipeline, and patch 3 has now launched simultaneously on both Steam and GOG. Thanks for those of you who brought this to our attention!

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Zortok » October 11th, 2018, 12:42 pm

sear wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 12:19 pm
Hey guys, we were able to resolve the kinks in the pipeline, and patch 3 has now launched simultaneously on both Steam and GOG. Thanks for those of you who brought this to our attention!
Thanks, that is great news :D

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by smithkt » October 12th, 2018, 12:04 pm

sear wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 12:19 pm
Hey guys, we were able to resolve the kinks in the pipeline, and patch 3 has now launched simultaneously on both Steam and GOG. Thanks for those of you who brought this to our attention!
Since I was being rather vocal about the slow GOG updates. I wanted to come back and thank you for listening. Looking forward to getting back and seeing what improvements there are and making some headway on my play through.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by yoli » October 13th, 2018, 10:45 am

sear wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 12:19 pm
Hey guys, we were able to resolve the kinks in the pipeline, and patch 3 has now launched simultaneously on both Steam and GOG.
well, are you sure you resolved all the issues, because once again the update was 26GB on Galaxy...

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Gizmo » October 13th, 2018, 12:06 pm

Why are these not binary file patches—just the differences? Is it really twenty six gigabytes of updated data, or is it replacing full archive files with minorly tweaked versions? There are users (like myself, at the moment) who are capped at ten gigs—or less per month; where downloading a game like this is a significant (read: not free) endeavor, that involves having a mobile computer (or renting a desktop on site at some coffee or copy shop).

I am very glad that I held off downloading the game when it first came out; anticipating the need to download a few patches... but not 31 gigs. :shock:

I would be very interested in seeing a binary file comparison from pre & post updates, to learn [the size of] what changes actually happen with the patches.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by eisberg » October 13th, 2018, 1:19 pm

Gizmo wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 12:06 pm
Why are these not binary file patches—just the differences? Is it really twenty six gigabytes of updated data, or is it replacing full archive files with minorly tweaked versions? There are users (like myself, at the moment) who are capped at ten gigs—or less per month; where downloading a game like this is a significant (read: not free) endeavor, that involves having a mobile computer (or renting a desktop on site at some coffee or copy shop).

I am very glad that I held off downloading the game when it first came out; anticipating the need to download a few patches... but not 31 gigs. :shock:

I would be very interested in seeing a binary file comparison from pre & post updates, to learn [the size of] what changes actually happen with the patches.
yoli wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 10:45 am
sear wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 12:19 pm
Hey guys, we were able to resolve the kinks in the pipeline, and patch 3 has now launched simultaneously on both Steam and GOG.
well, are you sure you resolved all the issues, because once again the update was 26GB on Galaxy...
GoG doesn't do binary patches, GoG does straight up file replacement and sends them in compressed format. Nothing the developers can do about it, that is how GoG does updates.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Gizmo » October 13th, 2018, 1:40 pm

That's a real shame... especially considering that they deliver it as a patch executable—which (presumably) could do overlay patching.

I bet it's possible to host the difference patch themselves though; and just download the difference file from their own webserver, as a utility that looks for, and updates the file(s) needing changed. It's absurd to require a 26 gig download for one (or a few dozen) script changes.

*Perhaps developers should start splitting their archives into sections, or separate files; like having one archive for the scripts, and one for the models... or in the very least, have one archive hold the files deemed most likely to need patched; and separate the material images, normal maps, and sound effects that are not likely to ever need changing.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by eisberg » October 13th, 2018, 1:50 pm

Gizmo wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 1:40 pm
That's a real shame... especially considering that they deliver it as a patch executable—which (presumably) could do overlay patching.

I bet it's possible to host the difference patch themselves though; and just download the difference file from their own webserver, as a utility that looks for, and updates the file(s) needing changed. It's absurd to require a 26 gig download for one (or a few dozen) script changes.
As far as I can tell not even the offline installers for patches on GoG are binary patches, but are just file replacements in compressed format in an executable, and since the patches are replacing almost everything they haven't even bothered making offline patch installers at all and just updated the full game install to the latest version instead since it is essentially the same thing.

And honestly, I wouldn't want the developers wasting time on creating their own patching system and making their own patches, they are better off concentrating on making the game better instead of trying to create their own system for patching for the few GoG players who would need such a thing.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Gizmo » October 13th, 2018, 1:58 pm

eisberg wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 1:50 pm
As far as I can tell not even the offline installers for patches on GoG are binary patches, but are just file replacements in compressed format in an executable, and since the patches are replacing almost everything they haven't even bothered making offline patch installers at all and just updated the full game install to the latest version instead since it is essentially the same thing.
I only use the offline installers, and in my experience (offhand remembering) they will update the main installers, and offer an updater patch; I don't know off hand if it only replaces files or not, but it is significantly smaller than the main installer .bin files.
And honestly, I wouldn't want the developers wasting time on creating their own patching system and making their own patches
I would. For one thing, it would mean that they could upload a patch over night, and have it be fixed; not having to wait on GoG (or other distributors); and that patch could conceivably be 500 kb, instead of 26,000,000 kb.
...they are better off concentrating on making the game better instead of trying to create their own system for patching for the few GoG players who would need such a thing.
That is a BIG chunk of middle/rural America. It matters a whole lot when patching the game means driving into town to get the files by spending an hour or three in an Internet Cafe.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by eisberg » October 13th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Gizmo wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 1:58 pm
eisberg wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 1:50 pm
As far as I can tell not even the offline installers for patches on GoG are binary patches, but are just file replacements in compressed format in an executable, and since the patches are replacing almost everything they haven't even bothered making offline patch installers at all and just updated the full game install to the latest version instead since it is essentially the same thing.
I only use the offline installers, and in my experience (offhand remembering) they will update the main installers, and offer an updater patch; I don't know off hand if it only replaces files or not, but it is significantly smaller than the main installer .bin files.
And honestly, I wouldn't want the developers wasting time on creating their own patching system and making their own patches
I would. For one thing, it would mean that they could upload a patch over night, and have it be fixed; not having to wait on GoG (or other distributors); and that patch could conceivably be 500 kb, instead of 26,000,000 kb.
...they are better off concentrating on making the game better instead of trying to create their own system for patching for the few GoG players who would need such a thing.
That is a BIG chunk of middle/rural America. It matters a whole lot when patching the game means driving into town to get the files.
The only reason why the patches are so big right now is because they are trying to decrease the load times, which is having them making changes to the pak files in the content folder, which is 48GB of the game all by themselves, then they make changes to other files for all the other bugs/performance optimizations. So even the offline patches would end up being the same size as downloading the full game offline installers.
Once they are done with trying to decrease load times, you should see patches drop in size significantly.

It takes GoG 3-5 days for them to make offline patch installers for other games and test them, and that is a dedicated team that works on those, since there is no way Inxile are going to spend money on a dedicated team for such a low amount of user base, and since there wouldn't be a dedicated team it would no doubt take more than a week for them to make offline installers and test them before releasing, let alone all the time and money it would take for them to even create such a system in the first place.

In this day and age developers are done with making patches, they just fix the game and upload a new build to the platform owners, and then the platform owners do the rest of the work, and the benefit for that is complete dedication to fixing the games and gamers get their patches faster when a new build was created. You won't see developers making their own patches anymore, nor hosting it themselves. Those days have been long gone for more than a decade.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by Gizmo » October 13th, 2018, 3:38 pm

eisberg wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 2:24 pm
In this day and age developers are done with making patches, they just fix the game and upload a new build to the platform owners, and then the platform owners do the rest of the work, and the benefit for that is complete dedication to fixing the games and gamers get their patches faster when a new build was created. You won't see developers making their own patches anymore, nor hosting it themselves. Those days have been long gone for more than a decade.
Not so; it depends on the company. Just a couple years ago, the lead programmer for Almost Human ltd. (Grimrock), would occasionally grab a few beers and post a thread on their forums, where anyone online at the time could ask him for features, and fixes, and if it was a feasible request, he would sit there and do it on the spot [ostensibly until he ran out of beers], and the updates would make it to the next patch in a few days. Another time, I mentioned why a certain puzzle in the game could break (and lock the player out of the room), and they fixed it immediately. It was in the next patch.

They sell the game on GoG & Steam, but they hosted it for sale themselves as well, and those fixes came the fastest.
Last edited by Gizmo on October 13th, 2018, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: For tomorrows patch, did you guys figure out how to do GoG's properly?

Post by eisberg » October 13th, 2018, 4:46 pm

Gizmo wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 3:38 pm
eisberg wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 2:24 pm
In this day and age developers are done with making patches, they just fix the game and upload a new build to the platform owners, and then the platform owners do the rest of the work, and the benefit for that is complete dedication to fixing the games and gamers get their patches faster when a new build was created. You won't see developers making their own patches anymore, nor hosting it themselves. Those days have been long gone for more than a decade.
Not so; it depends on the company. Just a couple years ago, the lead programmer for Almost Human ltd. (Grimrock), would occasionally grab a few beers and post a thread on their forums, where anyone online at the time could ask him for features, and fixes, and if it was a feasible request, he would sit there and do it on the spot [ostensibly until he ran out of beers], and the updates would make it to the next patch in a few days. Another time, I mentioned why a certain puzzle in the game could break (and lock the player out of the room), and they fixed it immediately. It was in the next patch.

They sell the game on GoG & Steam, but they hosted it for sale themselves as well, and those fixes came the fastest.
Yes, there are always outliars, like small developers with small games like that, and Human Head didn't do binary/delta patches either, the executable was just replacement files compressed in an executable. But inxile don't have a stand alone version of the game, they have GoG and Steam both of which takes care of the the updating systems.

Making a delta/binary patching system is no small feat, it takes a dedicated team to work on creating such a system and then a lot of time creating and testing the patches. No way inxile is going to want to do such a thing for the small amount of GoG users who can't download the patches of that size, especially when it is temporary and won't always be that size.

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