Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

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shmerl
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Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » September 20th, 2018, 8:58 am

Is there any general estimation how long it will take until release?

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by phimseto » September 20th, 2018, 10:05 am

No timeline yet, Shmerl. As soon as we have one, I'll be sure to share an update.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by edmondo » September 20th, 2018, 12:33 pm

phimseto wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:05 am
No timeline yet, Shmerl. As soon as we have one, I'll be sure to share an update.
Hi phimseto, it would be nice to know, if you've already started the Linux version or it's in some kind of waiting queue.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by phimseto » September 20th, 2018, 1:32 pm

While I believe we do have some people working on the Mac/Linux versions, the team is primarily focused right this moment on providing some patches based on player feedback and getting the build into a better place.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by Fessadil » September 20th, 2018, 5:27 pm

phimseto wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 1:32 pm
While I believe we do have some people working on the Mac/Linux versions, the team is primarily focused right this moment on providing some patches based on player feedback and getting the build into a better place.
You realize this is a huge affront to those of us that backed the Kickstarter, right? It said "Built using Unreal Engine 4, for PC, Mac and Linux." It didn't say that if you were a Mac or Linux user that there wasn't any point in paying the extra for alpha or beta access, because you'd be left out. It didn't say that Mac and Linux versions would maybe be provided some arbitrary time later. UE4 builds out of the box on all three platforms for I really don't see why you weren't testing on all three from the beginning.

I get it, I develop software too, and it is definitely complicated. But I really feel like I was misled and I wouldn't have backed this project if I had known up front that Mac and Linux users would be second class citizens.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » September 20th, 2018, 6:13 pm

I suppose inXile prioritized game features at the cost of simultaneous testing. But the least inXile could do is to give some practical timeframe. I guess we'll have to wait until bug fixing will quiet down.
Last edited by shmerl on September 21st, 2018, 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by Fessadil » September 20th, 2018, 8:55 pm

shmerl wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 6:13 pm
I suppose inXile prioritized game features at the cost of simultaneous testing. But the least inXile could do is to give some practical timeframe. I guess we'll have to wait until bug fixing will quite down.
Yeah, I was disappointed at the lack of alpha and beta access, but I was willing to give them that one. However, then finding out only on August 31st that Mac/Linux would not be available on release, followed by their subsequent unwillingness to even give us a rough estimate was the last straw for me. I don't think it is unreasonable to know if we could expect to see something this year or not.

They can't go back in time and change the development decisions they've made, but if they expect people to continue to have faith in crowdfunding, they need to be more transparent about when they won't be living up to what was promised.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by kilobug » September 21st, 2018, 1:44 am

I was ok with no Linux beta/alpha - that's what inXile also did on WL2 and TToN, so I was expecting it, and I can understand it's too complicated to handle for a small team.

But as Linux user and long-time inXile backer, I'm disappointed in the "no Linux at release", and even more at no timeframe being given... that's definitely a regression compared to previous inXile projects.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » September 21st, 2018, 9:34 am

Interesting article about Linux gaming from Cheesiness. One point he is making stood out to me:
When I first started using Linux, the majority of my gaming experiences were with Wine. This meant that none of the people who made the games I played cared about me as a customer or as an appreciator of their work. It meant that I would sometimes be derided and mocked within the communities surrounding their games.

Since Wine itself is by nature ever chasing the moving and obscured target of Windows' closed APIs, it's common for any games that do anything remotely unusual or envelope-pushing to not work until the relevant Windows behaviours that that game relies on are identified and reproduced in Wine's codebase, meaning that I was effectively excluded from participating in launch enthusiasm and discourse.

Any problems I encountered were my own problems to solve, and, in that era, no refunds were available to customers who chose to purchase something to run on an unsupported platform. In these situations, I as a Linux user was not socially equal to other users, nor was I entitled to the benefits and experiences of other customers.
That's one of the most annoying issues I see with delayed Linux releases. Linux users are left out from launch participation, from excitement of the release and general feedback about it.

I've always seen inXile as one of the good examples of inclusiveness in this aspect, and same day Linux releases were part of their image. But not anymore apparently.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by kaiman » September 21st, 2018, 11:02 am

shmerl wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 9:34 am
I've always seen inXile as one of the good examples of inclusiveness in this aspect, and same day Linux releases were part of their image. But not anymore apparently.
Yeah, with T:ToN having had a same day release (though no alpha or beta) I too thought I'd be in good hands with inXile. But truth be told, there isn't a shortage of games to play for me currently, so I'll bide my time and am hopefully rewarded with a smoother experience. Perhaps my physical copy will arrive by the time I'll be able to play the game as well ...

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » September 21st, 2018, 12:10 pm

I'll wait too, but this seems to become a common pattern in ambitious crowdfunded projects. Another recent one is We Happy Few. Also based on Unreal engine, and also sometime later situation without ETA.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by Tia Lapis » September 21st, 2018, 1:21 pm

Yeah am in the same boat as a Mac user - I backed to get a Mac game not the hope for leftovers 8( If we could at least play the remake of part 1-3 in the meantime - But oh wait, windows only 8(

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by Taryl » September 22nd, 2018, 9:15 pm

kilobug wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 1:44 am
...I can understand it's too complicated to handle for a small team.
That is not actually true. There are many game projects of scale ranging from one dev to AAA that have no apparent issue producing Linux builds at all. I've played/tested two alpha builds of Pheonix Point, for instance, the new X-Com style game from the creator of X-Com, and they both ran flawlessly and at full speed. That might look like a AAA game when it's finished, but it's a small studio now. Shroud of the Avatar is kicking along. That's another one that is or isn't AAA, depending on how you look at it.

What does seem to happen is that some devs care about and keep in mind cross-platform compatibility during development, and others do not. The first style can issue alpha and beta builds and have same-day releases. The second style build their entire game before thinking about the other platforms they promised, then often enough find serious mistakes they made early in the design process, making it a significant investment of time and money to replace or 'port' those Windows-specific elements. Sometimes they blame the OS or its users for the trouble. Sometimes they don't bother at all (Hello, Warhorse Studios).

Also, the first style of devs release a native version of the game, the second style issue a 'port'. The difference is noticeable, and unfortunate.

No one seems to have a problem building for FreeBSD though. Playstation 4 titles through the roof. :P

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » October 30th, 2018, 12:49 pm

phimseto wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:05 am
No timeline yet, Shmerl. As soon as we have one, I'll be sure to share an update.
Can you please provide at least a development progress update for the Linux version effort? It would be appropriate for many backers who are still waiting and are left without any info. I.e. what was already done, what remains, what issues were encountered and that sort of thing.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by phimseto » October 30th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Same as with the Mac version - it is being worked on, but we don't have an ETA. As for specifics, there isn't any kind of update I could give that would be appropriate in terms of saying we've done X amount and Y amount remains. It's never that simple, and there's always plenty of back and forth. The devs know to provide me with an arrival window as soon as they're reasonably confident in providing one.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by shmerl » October 30th, 2018, 1:29 pm

phimseto wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 1:24 pm
As for specifics, there isn't any kind of update I could give that would be appropriate in terms of saying we've done X amount and Y amount remains. It's never that simple, and there's always plenty of back and forth.
It actually would be interesting for many Linux users to get such update (especially for backers), not necessarily an amount but at least current work focus. It's always informative what kind of issues can arise in Linux gaming development and what solutions they have. Also simply what kind of tasks are involved in releasing something for Linux using a specific engine. Such kind of development updates would be great for any platform really (during development phase), but I'm interested in Linux one as a Linux user specifically :)

For instance, Compulsion Games used to give such updates for backers at least for their Windows version of We Happy Few, but they haven't really done so for the still pending Linux release except once. I think it's a great example of interaction with backers, even though they excluded Linux from it for the most part.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by kilobug » October 31st, 2018, 1:46 am

Could you at least give us a rough update among the line of "it doesn't even build yet, we have trouble with some third-party library that isn't ported" or "it builds and runs, but it's not currently playable" or "it's playable but we have some display bugs and no sound" ? We backed you since day 1 and still can't play the game, so having a one-line status update of that kind every month or so would seem fair to me... thanks ! ;)

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by Wintermute_of_Cof » October 31st, 2018, 5:32 am

phimseto wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 1:24 pm
The devs know to provide me with an arrival window as soon as they're reasonably confident in providing one.
Seems that the Windows version had a lot of bugs at release anyway, why did you not just delay until all three platforms you promised support for were in a better position?

Not even getting the remastered versions released for Linux was another kick in the teeth and the devs for that seemed to me to be surprised anyone was even asking for such a thing. I know now not to trust inXile with my money again.

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by cparker94 » October 31st, 2018, 4:12 pm

I agree. I received my BT 4 physical goods today and yet I can’t play the game since I own a Mac. So it remains sealed. I don’t even feel like opening it. Thinking about listing it on eBay as my enthusiasm that I once had for this game is no longer due to lack of updates and communication. Maybe I’ll at least get my money back.

Craig from Texas

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Re: Any ETA for the Linux version of BT IV?

Post by cparker94 » November 15th, 2018, 5:11 am

So now with the news of inXile being bought out, does that mean those waiting on a Mac version of the game are SOL? Does this affect the relationship with Krome Studios? My wish all along was to have a true sequel which is what Brian Fargo personally promised me back in 2015. Apparently he has failed two times to deliver — now and back in 2004. Hopefully Krome Studios can deliver on what inXile couldn’t. The lack of updates about a Mac version has made it to where now I don’t even want to play the Bards Tale 2004 Part 2 game. I have the game listed on eBay in hopes of refunding my Kickstarter commitment. My only hope going forward is a true sequel using the same engine as the BT Trilogy.

Craig from Texas

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