Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

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demeisen
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by demeisen » April 8th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Gizmo wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 12:53 pm
In a game like Halo, a sequel should not be an RTS, or a card-combat game... That's not what the series' name and earned reputation evokes. 'World of Warcraft' is not a Warcraft 3 sequel (and not trying to be), it's a different game set in the same world.
Fair enough. I was curious to hear where you're coming from (I generally find your posts to be well thought out).

My view is: details aside, the core is not changing so much as to preclude getting where I'd like to see it end up. E.g, it's not becoming an RTS or a FPS or going down to a single player character. It is growing into a 2D combat grid, which I generally think is an improvement, but it's still not real time combat, and it's still tactical, not "FPS-style aim at stuff and fire". To its detriment BT4 will lose some dynamics I like such as magic flexibility, and I'm not happy about a number of those, but also I think the bulk of them aren't an intrinsic limitation of the new BT4 underpinnings. Thus, I hope to see some make an (eventual, even if not for BT4) comeback.

Maybe we're not actually that far apart in views, and I've found myself liking a lot of your specific suggestions. Generally, around desirable dynamics, I'm of the feeling that "we can get there from here", but it might require some patience.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Drool » April 8th, 2018, 2:43 pm

demeisen wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 1:18 pm
My view is: details aside, the core is not changing so much as to preclude getting where I'd like to see it end up. E.g, it's not becoming an RTS or a FPS or going down to a single player character.
Um... okay. Sure. It's not changing its genre broadly speaking, but much of the core mechanics have been changed.
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Lucius » April 8th, 2018, 5:58 pm

Drool wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 2:43 pm
Um... okay. Sure. It's not changing its genre broadly speaking, but much of the core mechanics have been changed.
This seems to be sentiment shared with many folks here.

Let's look at the Final Fantasy series. Anyone played the 1st? It came out in 1987 with FFXV in 2016. This is a series that has spanned 30 years, and grew and changed over the course of 30 years. It's still an RPG with similar themes throughout the series, similar settings, for the most part, and many of the similar trappings, some from the beginning, others added later. But my how have the core mechanics changed. Not all at once, sometimes subtly, others less subtle. It was once a game where you started with 4 nameless characters and is now a game with 1 predefined character that you control. It was a combat system of attack/attack/cast/use to now real time hack and slash action. It had a robust magic system and now has something very different.

My point is, when a game series changes over time, you don't see the drastic results compared to the previous entry most of the time. It's usually subtle until at some point you realize, this isn't the same game series I was playing 30 years ago. It has some stuff in common with it, but overall it's something completely different.

BTIV is seeing 30 years of subtle changes slapped in all at once. Some of those changes I can see a direct connection from the originals, as in how combat went from the original to what it is now in BTIV. I can imagine the evolution happening over time, it's just more shocking when it's all at once. I don't agree with every change I'm seeing, and some may be straight up bad; like the lack of death and resurrection. Or why does the spell list appear so skimpy? I can understand trimming down the spell list if you have redundant spells or useless spells, or spells that simply would not work or be needed in this particular chapter of the series, but from what I'm seeing, the spell choices appear very limited.

That said, things have changed, but this sequel isn't that far off from the original trilogy. Final Fantasy had a very similar combat system to BT and now 30 years later it's full on real time action. Maybe we should be thankful that this franchise died for so long, if not perhaps today we'd be playing Bard's Tale XVI with a single protagonist in an open world with real time combat and online elements.

Even better, I think it's time for old franchises to stay dead. Certainly no more sequels. Even an unabashed reboot would be better than sequels too far removed from the originals.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by thebruce » April 8th, 2018, 7:10 pm

BTIV is seeing 30 years of subtle changes slapped in all at once.
Yes, and that's key. Again, it's not that most people here are saying the stuff we're seeing is itself bad, but moreso that it's not Bard's Tale. If some of these changes came after another iteration or two, provided the games were successful, that it would seem more like an evolution of the series than drastic revisioning.
Even better, I think it's time for old franchises to stay dead. Certainly no more sequels. Even an unabashed reboot would be better than sequels too far removed from the originals.
Sure, and as we said - don't call it Bard's Tale *IV*. A spin-off inspired by the series would be fine. But BTIV brings it with it certain series expectations. And that's what we're trying to discuss through, to find where an acceptable 'bar' lies.
The Mage's Tale is an excellent example of them understanding this. But BTIV is slowly pulling away from the 'feel' of the originals, and feeling more like another spinoff, and not "IV"
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by chaney » April 8th, 2018, 7:40 pm

I was really hoping for an actual BT IV. This really does have a feel for a whole new series. I just wanted something to continue in that simplistic, yet twisted vein of gameplay. Controls were simple, it was not live action. I am keeping an open mind, but the game I had in mind, would not take this long. It wasn't the graphics, but the humor, and gameplay that won my heart.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by thebruce » April 8th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Are you thinking back to Bard's Tale 2004? Or Bard's Tale 1, 2, and 3 from the 80s? The 2004 spinoff wasn't an official part of the [numbered] series, and is MUCH more a drastic shift away from the series than IV is currently.
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Serjo » April 9th, 2018, 12:46 am

Most people who know anything about Bard's Tale know it from the 2004 game. I expect to see a lot more compaints about the first person perspective and lack of real time combat once the game is released to the masses. At least they seem to be going for the same humorous writing style.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Gizmo » April 9th, 2018, 1:15 am

Lucius wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 5:58 pm
Even better, I think it's time for old franchises to stay dead. Certainly no more sequels. Even an unabashed reboot would be better than sequels too far removed from the originals.
I'm in line with this. If it's deemed unsalable when done in keeping with the original, then why use the original's name at all (for an otherwise unrelated title)?
demeisen wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 11:58 am
Sequel does not mean "the same thing as before". Sequels are allowed to evolve and hopefully improve.
BT4 looks fantastic, and the gameplay seems interesting, but it could pass as a AAA sequel to Frayed Knights (right down to the banter, the spawning loot containers, the back row melee attacks, and the immortal/incapacitated party members). That's just not right.
It doesn't really come across as a Bard's Tale game. :|

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The conversations in the Alpha were not at all like I would have hoped. They were not even like those in Wasteland 3—which are at least close to WL (and so are close BT as well). If no place else, BT4 could have at least resembled the BT series in the conversations.

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Last edited by Gizmo on April 9th, 2018, 1:55 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Lix » April 9th, 2018, 1:39 am

Yup, I immediately thought of frayed knights when I saw the alpha footage.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by ZiN » April 9th, 2018, 4:20 am

Serjo wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 12:46 am
Most people who know anything about Bard's Tale know it from the 2004 game.
Yeah, I suspect more than half of their fans/backers know BT from the 2004 game and unlike the classics' fans, InXile doesn't seem to want to alienate those, in fact they seem much too eager catering to them.
Serjo wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 12:46 am
At least they seem to be going for the same humorous writing style.
At least...
Gizmo wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 1:15 am
If it's deemed unsalable when done in keeping with the original, then why use the original's name at all (for an otherwise unrelated title)?
We both know why...
Gizmo wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 1:15 am
The conversations in the Alpha were not at all like I would have hoped. They were not even like those in Wasteland 3—which are at least close to WL (and so are close BT as well). If no place else, BT4 could have at least resembled the BT series in the conversations.
The one in the demo could be straight out of Fallout 3-4, Skyrim, or any other trendy, modern, dumb "RPG".

The combat also reminds me of Lords of Xulima, sans the stylish 2D art, replaced by high-fidelity, but rather wooden 3D assets. UI is the typical, ugly console one, familiar from all of InXile's previous titles, despite the huge amounts of feedback through the years. They just seem to be unable to learn.

As a fan of Bard's Tale, at this point, I am really struggling to find anything to like about this game I have backed, with so much excitement and followed with such great enthusiasm... : (

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Drool » April 9th, 2018, 1:14 pm

Serjo wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 12:46 am
Most people who know anything about Bard's Tale know it from the 2004 game.
<<citation needed>>
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Woolfe » April 16th, 2018, 9:54 pm

So I am not burdened by having played the originals. That said what I am seeing is not what I was expecting.

The Gameplay is too foreign from what I have seen of the original games, and it doesn't feel like an inspired by. Rather it feels like we are making this, and the old IP will be fitted into it no matter the consequence.

It will probably be fine. But there is a reason I haven't backed WL3. Essentially InXile have somewhat lost me as a backer. They have consistently focused on taking an old loved IP and turning it into something that whilst it broadly meets expectations, its rarely what I and many others were hoping for.

Frankly I want InXile to stop riding the nostalgia wagon, and actually create something new. If they can do that, and create a good compelling world with good compelling gameplay, then I will be back as a supporter.
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Gizmo » April 16th, 2018, 10:23 pm

Woolfe wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 9:54 pm
Frankly I want InXile to stop riding the nostalgia wagon, and actually create something new.
Can I take this to mean, " ...and actually create some new IP"?
(...meaning to create an IP spin off title, or create a completely new IP title, instead of making alien/unfamiliar sequels to older, established titles?

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Woolfe » April 17th, 2018, 5:17 pm

Gizmo wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 10:23 pm
Woolfe wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 9:54 pm
Frankly I want InXile to stop riding the nostalgia wagon, and actually create something new.
Can I take this to mean, " ...and actually create some new IP"?
(...meaning to create an IP spin off title, or create a completely new IP title, instead of making alien/unfamiliar sequels to older, established titles?
Correct.

Make new IP. Or yes even a "Spin off" title from existing IP. Though my first preference is for something totally new.
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Jademonk » April 18th, 2018, 4:18 am

In my opinion, if this game strays too far from its predecessors and fails to maintain an appropriately serious tone, then it will not live up to expectations.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by miasma » April 20th, 2018, 12:33 pm

I'm intrigued by what I've seen of the game, but I can't honestly say that it feels like Bard's Tale at the moment. That may change, though, when I get better sense of the story and the locations. I just hope the game doesn't get TOO comedic. While it's true that the originals weren't always serious, I never saw them as comedies. It's not that I'm opposed to comedy in games, by any means, but I want this to feel like a true sequel to BT3, and that means maintaining a similar tone.
For me, the "real" Bard's Tale IV was Dragon Wars and, to a lesser degree, Centauri Alliance (I know that took place in an entirely different setting from BT, but it still had that BT feel.)

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by lefty1117 » April 23rd, 2018, 2:26 pm

It doesn't feel too much like Bard's Tale right now, until we see and hear how the original lore is maintained in the game. Slightly disappointed that they dropped the Elves and Half-Elves from the game. We'll see how much flavor they can keep. I'm OK with updated gameplay, but the lore is what will make it feel familiar to me

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » April 23rd, 2018, 4:22 pm

They already shared some lore more than a year ago. (Maybe two now.) According to the lore they shared then, there are still Elves in the game - it's just not clear if they are going to be a PC race as in the originals. They could be belligerents.
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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by Lanatir » June 4th, 2018, 12:37 am

Ok, after seen several gameplay videos on youtube, i feel like i really need to comment. This game looks nothing like a real Bards Tale. I dont like the combat style, i dont like freeform movement, and i DESPISE the STUPID BT2004 humour they seem to want to integrate. So, if it really will end up like they showed it, this will probably turn out to be the biggest disappointment in my 40 years as a gamer.

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Re: Is this Game going to Live Up to Expectations?

Post by ZiN » June 4th, 2018, 10:01 am

Yeah, after Ultima IX and Fallout 3, it looks like another classic is going to join that club. (ToN was a huge one as well, but it is a different category for me.)
On the motion-picture industry front, we also have Star Wars: It will be hard to top that one as "greatest disappointment". Depends mostly on how good the dungeon-crawling gameplay will be, but also on how much InXile is going to insult the fans, by destroying the established lore and world, plus the amount of SJW political and social agendas showed into it.
I really hope it won't though and I can have fun, give it good a good review and continue to support the devs with my $.

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