Game Length

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

demeisen
Acolyte
Posts: 99
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 9:59 am

Re: Game Length

Post by demeisen » May 27th, 2017, 9:03 am

thebruce wrote:
May 27th, 2017, 7:33 am
The game should never end.
;)

But seriously, what if the BT4 world were set to be expandable with new content?
If the tools are available, maybe we'd even see community content. While I haven't tried any of them myself, I think the Grimrock series has a significant amount of community "modules" (not sure of the right term) you can download and play through. If the core BT4 system is good, I could imagine there would be talented people creating new content for it too.

Sometimes the community work can be really top notch - e.g, the best NWN player-created modules were exceptional.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 898
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Game Length

Post by thebruce » May 27th, 2017, 9:38 am

Hey I'd be all for a BT4 construction kit ;)
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

Iiago
Acolyte
Posts: 72
Joined: April 8th, 2012, 2:19 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Iiago » May 27th, 2017, 3:09 pm

That would be cool. Actually, while we're dreaming, four words - "Bard's Tale Construction Kit".

Harebrained Schemes got a good community going with the equivalent tools for Shadowrun.

EDIT: Weird, the last two comments didn't show up until now, after I typed this in. Whatever.
Last edited by Iiago on May 28th, 2017, 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » May 28th, 2017, 7:18 am

To be honest, I like that so far InXile has been able to resist the temptation of doing DLC, though I wouldn't have anything against a proper expansion.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 898
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Game Length

Post by thebruce » May 28th, 2017, 4:42 pm

Yes, please no little bits and pieces to download to make the game 'full'. A complete game release is best. And then, if desired, build expansions :)
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » June 13th, 2017, 7:14 am

thebruce wrote:
May 28th, 2017, 4:42 pm
Yes, please no little bits and pieces to download to make the game 'full'. A complete game release is best. And then, if desired, build expansions :)
But that said, BT3's dimensions do sound like an interesting idea for expansions, if they don't all appear in BT4 that is.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Game Length

Post by Drool » June 13th, 2017, 8:32 pm

Agreed. And some of them would be really interesting to revisit.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

Bankee
Initiate
Posts: 3
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 8:28 pm

Re: Game Length

Post by Bankee » June 16th, 2017, 5:32 pm

I am really glad to see some good input on the hours of game play. I knew I could not be the only one who wanted more than 20 hours :) I would also love to see a dev kit, that would really make it fun for those who want to do some modules and add tot he game length.

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » June 17th, 2017, 4:32 am

Bankee wrote:
June 16th, 2017, 5:32 pm
I am really glad to see some good input on the hours of game play. I knew I could not be the only one who wanted more than 20 hours :) I would also love to see a dev kit, that would really make it fun for those who want to do some modules and add tot he game length.
I'm not sure how open to modding UE4 is tbh.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Game Length

Post by Drool » June 17th, 2017, 5:21 pm

Doing a quick internet search, it looks like it's probably pretty moddable. I saw a few sites talking about "adding mod support to your game".
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
Themadcow
Scholar
Posts: 167
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 1:46 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Themadcow » June 19th, 2017, 1:31 am

Iiago wrote:
May 27th, 2017, 12:51 am
I'm going to be an outlier here and say that I think 20hrs is about perfect.

I like RPG's but unless there's a lot of interesting dialogue or text (a la Wasteland 2) I find very little additional fun is had between a game's 20th and 60th hours.

Ultimately I want maximum fun per hour, and that ratio often decreases the longer a game gets.

Also there's a lot of games out there, and my time is finite. A 60hr game basically means I can't play anything else for a good 3-4 months, and variety is nice.
I certainly like a game that isnt so long I can't complete it - or is so story / text heavy I have forgotten what's happened if I have a break from it for a few weeks (see: most modern isometric RPGs). Despite having a demanding job, kids and all of 3-4 hours a week dedicated PC gaming time I still managed to beat Grimrock and M&M X because of their 30-40 hrs length.

Skyrim I ploughed 100 hours into but over a 5 year period (I just finished the main quest last month), and I spent 80-100 hours on Persona 4, Strange Journey and Etrian games because they were mobile. 40 hours or so would work for me.
~~~ CPC's - Getting in the way of fun gameplay since 1998 ~~~

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » June 19th, 2017, 4:34 am

Paying $40+ for a 20 hour game just isn't good value for money, no matter how good those 20 hours are.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Game Length

Post by Drool » June 19th, 2017, 9:31 pm

I dunno. $2/hour is reasonable value. Certainly better than a movie.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
ZiN
Explorer
Posts: 323
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Game Length

Post by ZiN » June 20th, 2017, 3:50 am

It also depends on many factors though, such as: animation speed, step speed, cutscenes, grinding and others. Wasteland 2's skill checks were some highly unfun time-leechers, so none of that please. If the dungeons, and the risks/rewards are good enough, players can grind in a fun way, replaying the same dungeons several times. Getting better with each clear, discovering all the secrets and coming out with new shiny loot is quite fun for a while, especially if the player is allowed to swap characters in/out the party mid-game in the adventurer's guild, and can experiment with different party comps for different dungeons.

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » June 20th, 2017, 6:27 am

ZiN wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 3:50 am
Wasteland 2's skill checks were some highly unfun time-leechers, so none of that please.
Still not nearly as bad as RPGs that have minigames for lockpicking/hacking.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

kidnova
Initiate
Posts: 9
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 5:09 am

Re: Game Length

Post by kidnova » June 20th, 2017, 7:15 am

Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 6:27 am
ZiN wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 3:50 am
Wasteland 2's skill checks were some highly unfun time-leechers, so none of that please.
Still not nearly as bad as RPGs that have minigames for lockpicking/hacking.
I don't necessarily mind minigames for those types of activities as long as their are alternate ways to accomplish those goals. For example if I have the option to either purchase lockpicks or do a minigame to open a locked door/chest. Hacking in the newer Deus Ex games, for example doesn't bother me at all the way it was implemented.

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5014
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Game Length

Post by Crosmando » June 20th, 2017, 7:17 am

kidnova wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:15 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 6:27 am
ZiN wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 3:50 am
Wasteland 2's skill checks were some highly unfun time-leechers, so none of that please.
Still not nearly as bad as RPGs that have minigames for lockpicking/hacking.
I don't necessarily mind minigames for those types of activities as long as their are alternate ways to accomplish those goals. For example if I have the option to either purchase lockpicks or do a minigame to open a locked door/chest. Hacking in the newer Deus Ex games, for example doesn't bother me at all the way it was implemented.
That's even worse because it gives you the opportunity to bypass character skill with player skill (hand eye coordination etc), RPGs are supposed to be about your characters stats, that's just action-y bullshit. Not neccessarily bad when the game is an action-RPG (like DX) but it's totally out of place in a more pure RPG.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

kidnova
Initiate
Posts: 9
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 5:09 am

Re: Game Length

Post by kidnova » June 20th, 2017, 7:22 am

Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:17 am
kidnova wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:15 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 6:27 am

Still not nearly as bad as RPGs that have minigames for lockpicking/hacking.
I don't necessarily mind minigames for those types of activities as long as their are alternate ways to accomplish those goals. For example if I have the option to either purchase lockpicks or do a minigame to open a locked door/chest. Hacking in the newer Deus Ex games, for example doesn't bother me at all the way it was implemented.
That's even worse because it gives you the opportunity to bypass character skill with player skill (hand eye coordination etc), RPGs are supposed to be about your characters stats, that's just action-y bullshit.
I'm not arguing for such a mechanic in BT4 by any means, just stating that I don't necessarily despise these game-play elements if they are well implemented. I would also argue that character stats are "supposed" to be one of the major factors of a RPG, not the only one. This is an argument for another time and another thread however.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 898
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Game Length

Post by thebruce » June 20th, 2017, 8:22 am

kidnova wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:22 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:17 am
kidnova wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:15 am


I don't necessarily mind minigames for those types of activities as long as their are alternate ways to accomplish those goals. For example if I have the option to either purchase lockpicks or do a minigame to open a locked door/chest. Hacking in the newer Deus Ex games, for example doesn't bother me at all the way it was implemented.
That's even worse because it gives you the opportunity to bypass character skill with player skill (hand eye coordination etc), RPGs are supposed to be about your characters stats, that's just action-y bullshit.
I'm not arguing for such a mechanic in BT4 by any means, just stating that I don't necessarily despise these game-play elements if they are well implemented. I would also argue that character stats are "supposed" to be one of the major factors of a RPG, not the only one. This is an argument for another time and another thread however.
Likewise, not arguing that the mechanic should be in BT4, but at what point does it become 'character' skill instead of 'player' skill? Any puzzle requiring thought is player skill, not character skill. Mapping, even exploration endurance (sitting at a computer) is player skill :).
That said, if there are character stats that apply directly to a certain task or puzzle (like lockpicking), then it should definitely be based on character skill, not player skill.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5641
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Game Length

Post by Woolfe » June 20th, 2017, 5:23 pm

thebruce wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 8:22 am
kidnova wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:22 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 20th, 2017, 7:17 am

That's even worse because it gives you the opportunity to bypass character skill with player skill (hand eye coordination etc), RPGs are supposed to be about your characters stats, that's just action-y bullshit.
I'm not arguing for such a mechanic in BT4 by any means, just stating that I don't necessarily despise these game-play elements if they are well implemented. I would also argue that character stats are "supposed" to be one of the major factors of a RPG, not the only one. This is an argument for another time and another thread however.
Likewise, not arguing that the mechanic should be in BT4, but at what point does it become 'character' skill instead of 'player' skill? Any puzzle requiring thought is player skill, not character skill. Mapping, even exploration endurance (sitting at a computer) is player skill :).
That said, if there are character stats that apply directly to a certain task or puzzle (like lockpicking), then it should definitely be based on character skill, not player skill.
+ eleventy billion this......
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests