i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

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i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by demeisen » April 11th, 2017, 8:34 am

The broader internet is not exactly being overwhelmed by BT4 talk, and this forum is light on traffic too. I was thinking about why there doesn't seem to be as much buzz about it as some other classic game revivals have had.

A few reasons I'm surprised:
  • BT1 was very impressive when it came out. Graphics and artwork like this BT1 screenshot were amazing by mid 1980's standards. It's the first CRPG I remember where I actually felt a palpable sense of being in a place, and where visually seeing a new kind of monster was something to look forward to.
  • Although similar gameplay had been seen in Wizardy already, BT1 was acoustically and graphically far superior, and was a lot of people's first introduction to CRPGs. There ought to be quite a lot of nostalgia around. It was the best selling CRPG of the 1980's!
Of course on the flip side we have:
  • Gameplay was grindy by modern standards. Lots of repetition.
  • AAADDD for a high % of fights doesn't really hold up well any more as a fun combat dynamic.
  • Lacking things modern games want such as auto-mapping.
  • Arguably the game hasn't aged as well as something like Dungeon Master (1987) ( -> reimagined as Grimrock 1 & 2)
  • Editing to add: InExile hasn't made a lot of noise either (which I'm OK with: I'd rather they spend their time working on it, than talking about it!)
But it seems like BT4 is aiming to improve on some things that could stand a bit of improving. I dunno, I just feel like given how important BT1 was to the history of CRPGs, I'd expect there to be a lot more buzz around about BT4.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Woolfe » April 11th, 2017, 6:09 pm

Actually its probably because there hasn't been many announcements of late combined with InXile focused on Torment at the moment.... Hopefully the new community manager will start beating the drum on this a bit more, and we will start seeing some more noise.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Crosmando » April 11th, 2017, 6:38 pm

It's because most RPG fans have bad taste and don't recognize the greatness of blobbers. Look at TToN, you've got a game with 3 classes and 3 attributes and people are somehow excited for it because "muh story".
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Lord of Riva » April 12th, 2017, 7:22 am

Crosmando wrote:
April 11th, 2017, 6:38 pm
It's because most RPG fans have bad taste and don't recognize the greatness of blobbers. Look at TToN, you've got a game with 3 classes and 3 attributes and people are somehow excited for it because "muh story".
thats hardly fair since they got a lot of critique for handling it like this.

that said, there is simply nothing there to talk about when it comes to BT IV *shrug*

we will see what InXile has in store for us, hopefully soon and more frequent, in the future.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Ether » April 13th, 2017, 12:31 am

I don't think the game is going to appeal to mainstream fans, at least not at this point.

The game is going to be most appealing to people who played the game thirty years ago. And since most of kids I knew were Neanderthals who hated the game, I would imagine the number is going to be limited.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Lord of Riva » April 13th, 2017, 12:58 am

Ether wrote:
April 13th, 2017, 12:31 am
I don't think the game is going to appeal to mainstream fans, at least not at this point.

The game is going to be most appealing to people who played the game thirty years ago. And since most of kids I knew were Neanderthals who hated the game, I would imagine the number is going to be limited.
well i agree that the BT name does not have much pull in comparison, at least thats what i feel and i havent played it. And you could see that on the KS as well.
All in all i do not think however that dungeoncrawls in general arent able to be well received by the general gaming community.

Its not Call of Duty but in the last few years quite a few Dungeon crawlers have been made and were successful.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Crosmando » April 13th, 2017, 11:14 pm

Ether wrote:
April 13th, 2017, 12:31 am
I don't think the game is going to appeal to mainstream fans, at least not at this point.

The game is going to be most appealing to people who played the game thirty years ago. And since most of kids I knew were Neanderthals who hated the game, I would imagine the number is going to be limited.
I disagree, I mean I wasn't even born until 2 years after BT1 was released, I played it much later in an emulated form. BT4 still has a substantial (but niche) audience, fans of Might & Magic, Wizardry, Lands of Lore, etc. BT4 also will have a much higher budget and production values. Legend of Grimrock, while not turn-based, is an example of a blobber that sold well.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Ether » April 14th, 2017, 5:05 am

Crosmando wrote:
April 13th, 2017, 11:14 pm
I disagree, I mean I wasn't even born until 2 years after BT1 was released, I played it much later in an emulated form. BT4 still has a substantial (but niche) audience, fans of Might & Magic, Wizardry, Lands of Lore, etc. BT4 also will have a much higher budget and production values. Legend of Grimrock, while not turn-based, is an example of a blobber that sold well.
I would say people like us are in the minority :(

Granted, I don't really go out of my way to look for internet game chatter, and it's a bit abstract to measure anyways. But as Riva said, I'm thinking internet traffic is going to have a lot more talk on a game like Call of Duty.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by sear » April 17th, 2017, 7:05 pm

Woolfe wrote:
April 11th, 2017, 6:09 pm
Actually its probably because there hasn't been many announcements of late combined with InXile focused on Torment at the moment.... Hopefully the new community manager will start beating the drum on this a bit more, and we will start seeing some more noise.
This is definitely the case. You can expect to see a lot more of BT4 in the coming year.

Right now we are in kind of a quiet time with BT4. In the early stages of production, it's common to have a lot of individual prototypes, systems and ideas floating around in dozens of little bubbles as those get built out. We're now making big leaps from that prototyping and paper (and tabletop!) design to getting systems, gameplay, and UI fully integrated into something cohesive and playable, not to mention pretty-looking. The combat video was the first look at the level of polish we want to hit.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Drool » April 17th, 2017, 10:50 pm

Even some rough ideas would be nice. We're kinda starving for info here.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Crosmando » April 30th, 2017, 12:57 am

I think that BT4 genuinely has the chance to be a sleeper hit. RPG's like WL2 and TToN were overly ambitious because they had such lofty goals in regards to world-altering choice and consequence and branching storyline (which is obviously very expensive to produce). But for BT4 there's no such expectations, all they need is to create a fun dungeon crawler, which enables the devs to double down and focus on a specific type of game.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by demeisen » May 1st, 2017, 1:23 pm

I think that BT4 genuinely has the chance to be a sleeper hit.
Agreed, and for the same reasons. A good old fashioned dungeon crawler with (as the recent update video says) "deep combat with tactical complexity" and some nice exploration to go with - I can totally see it being a little gem.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Lucius » May 2nd, 2017, 6:15 pm

Crosmando wrote:
April 13th, 2017, 11:14 pm
I mean I wasn't even born until 2 years after BT1 was released
Whoa hold up. You are 8 years younger than me???? Based on your opinions on this forum over the years, I had always assumed you were in your 60's now. Or maybe mid to upper 50's. I'm....I'm flabbergasted that a 30 year old can have the opinions you do. I just...I can't... does not compute :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Crosmando » June 4th, 2017, 10:33 am

Lucius wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 6:15 pm
Crosmando wrote:
April 13th, 2017, 11:14 pm
I mean I wasn't even born until 2 years after BT1 was released
Whoa hold up. You are 8 years younger than me???? Based on your opinions on this forum over the years, I had always assumed you were in your 60's now. Or maybe mid to upper 50's. I'm....I'm flabbergasted that a 30 year old can have the opinions you do. I just...I can't... does not compute :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
The upside is that I didn't spend my childhood/teens playing any CRPGs, so I'm immune to the old "you just have rose-tinted nostalgia glasses" argument.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Gizmo » June 4th, 2017, 12:35 pm

...how little BT4 talk the internet has.
I suppose it's because InXile is not thinking big enough in their add campaigns.
Image

(Bethesda didn't either though.. if you notice. Their billboard triptych doesn't fill out the first column the way it does for the second two. :lol: )
Crosmando wrote:
June 4th, 2017, 10:33 am
The upside is that I didn't spend my childhood/teens playing any CRPGs, so I'm immune to the old "you just have rose-tinted nostalgia glasses" argument.
I should hope that everyone is immune to that argument; it's baseless for there is no rose-tinted nostalgia glasses on a topic where all participants can (and likely do) have the original software installed side by side with the new, and open both to direct comparisons.

Myself, I first discovered Ravenloft: Stone Prophet —after having discovered Elderscrolls:Oblivion, and I realized after playing both, that I liked the NPC dialog treatment, and companion selection better in Stone Prophet than TES. I have no rose tinted goggles where Oblivion is concerned, because I have it installed, and can look at it in action and see exactly why I like SP better in those regards. (I have SP installed as well, and can always re-confirm by direct inspection). It was that way for Fallout 1, Fallout2, and FO3; Wasteland 1, Wasteland 2, (eventually Wasteland 3), and, the two Torment games.

*OF course, I should mention (as an aside:) that I just re-bought Oblivion, FO3, and NV as GoG versions, because I never finished either of them, later couldn't fully install some of them, and now NV doesn't need Steam to run. :D I am anxious to re-try an experiment I did with FO3 years ago, on a diferent computer. I set the game to 640x480 res, and played it on a 1920x1080 monitor, and the graphics card upscaled it automatically...

The output almost looked like a watercolor comic book. Now that actually might be rose-tinted nostalgia glasses... but I aim to test it again, and see if my memories match the reality I get. What I remember of the time, is that I wanted to keep the settings that way permanently; and tolerate the minor re-sampling issue for chain-link fences in the game, not having enough pixels to sample—and so unable to pass scrutiny up close.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Drool » June 4th, 2017, 4:43 pm

Gizmo wrote:
June 4th, 2017, 12:35 pm
*OF course, I should mention (as an aside:) that I just re-bought Oblivion, FO3, and NV as GoG versions
Let me know how Oblivion runs. I had to get a refund for Steam's version of Oblivion because it would crash every 20 minutes or so. Apparently, it really doesn't like multi-core processors. If GOG's version has the same problems, I'll just stick with my XBox version.
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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Gizmo » June 4th, 2017, 6:08 pm

I'll have to check that out. I seem to recall the same thing with the original FO3 release, and that there is a config option to limit threads to 2.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Iiago » June 4th, 2017, 8:29 pm

You gotta remember too that inXile will have limited marketing reach, and practically they need to focus on selling Torment right now, not pushing a game that won't be released for 2 years.

There's probably a fair degree of cross-over between BT fans and Torment fans, such that it's probably smart to only hype one at a time.

EDIT: Just looking at the tags on the people posting here, everyone bar one person has backed BT and Torment. And ALL of us backed BT and Wasteland 2. And we'll be the hardcore BT fans.

EDIT EDIT: Ok, so there's two people without any forum badges at all. Whatever, you see my point.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by demeisen » June 7th, 2017, 5:36 pm

Iiago wrote:
June 4th, 2017, 8:29 pm
You gotta remember too that inXile will have limited marketing reach, and practically they need to focus on selling Torment right now, not pushing a game that won't be released for 2 years.
A fair point. They're not a huge studio, and I guess the game is a ways off yet. I'm just prematurely psyched and mildly bewildered that everybody isn't talking about it. :D
EDIT EDIT: Ok, so there's two people without any forum badges at all. Whatever, you see my point.
I backed T:TON, BT4, WL3, and purchased but did not back WL2 (just because I didn't know about it). I don't have the forum badges though. Not sure why. Maybe I used a different email to sign up here.

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Re: i'm slightly surprised how little BT4 talk the internet has.

Post by Gizmo » June 7th, 2017, 7:40 pm

demeisen wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 5:36 pm
I backed T:TON, BT4, WL3, and purchased but did not back WL2 (just because I didn't know about it). I don't have the forum badges though. Not sure why. Maybe I used a different email to sign up here.
AFAIK, they are extras in your backer account, and have to be personally activated.

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