Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

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Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Crosmando » March 30th, 2017, 12:58 am

So in BT the way to regen Spell Points (ie mana) for mages was to pay gold at Roscoe's Energy Emporium, but this got me thinking: Why just have this system for spellcasters? Why not expand it for all classes? Here's some ideas:

Warrior/Rogue/Hunter - Energy Points - Rest at Inn
Monk/Cleric/Paladin - Faith Points - Pray at Temple
Conjurer/Magician/Wizard/Sorcerer - Spell Points - Roscoe's Energy Emporium
Bard - Voice Points - Tavern

And obviously you should be able to get different consumables like potions to regen your health or points in the field (for example Cleric could get religious tomes to read which restore Faith, while the Bard could bring drinks along, etc). The idea of this is mostly flavour, to make different class types feel unique. Also I'm not sure if the devs plan to make it that you need to return to certain locations in order to level-up party members (or at the least where you purchase/train spells or abilities), but it would also be cool if your class type needed to go to certain location, ie Clerics/Paladins train at Temples, Bards at Musician Hall or whatever.

Also, note to devs: Play Devil Whiskey, or least read the manual, it was easily the best (and highest budget) Bard's Tale clone ever made, it has many good ideas.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Ether » April 1st, 2017, 9:47 pm

It's not a terrible idea, but I don't want to have to go to 4+ shops every time I leave a dungeon. Or, have 4+ different "energies" (for lack of a better term) that can shorten my exploration.

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Ether » April 1st, 2017, 9:51 pm

Btw, I suppose a related question would be what would most here prefer(if you could only pick one):
Roscoes Energy Emporium, or the Harmonic Gems?

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by ZZGO » April 1st, 2017, 11:31 pm

In my opinion, the fighter's "energy emporium" is called a temple, and the bard's a tavern. ;)

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by ZZGO » April 1st, 2017, 11:40 pm

Ether wrote:
April 1st, 2017, 9:51 pm
Btw, I suppose a related question would be what would most here prefer(if you could only pick one):
Roscoes Energy Emporium, or the Harmonic Gems?
Given their crazy costs, I never once made use of an energy emporium. You can just saunter in the sun and save the money.
I used Harmonic Gems a lot in BT3, once I found out what they were (took me a while to realize that). But honestly, I think they were as overpowered as Roscoe's was pointless. They made sense in the high-powered BT3 environment but would have been overpowered and possibly detrimental in BT1.

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Ether » April 2nd, 2017, 1:43 pm

ZZGO wrote:
April 1st, 2017, 11:31 pm
In my opinion, the fighter's "energy emporium" is called a temple, and the bard's a tavern. ;)
Lol...True!
Though I'm assuming the OP is referencing to a system to where a fighter would use energy points to get, say, an extra attack.
ZZGO wrote:
April 1st, 2017, 11:40 pm
Given their crazy costs, I never once made use of an energy emporium. You can just saunter in the sun and save the money.
I used Harmonic Gems a lot in BT3, once I found out what they were (took me a while to realize that). But honestly, I think they were as overpowered as Roscoe's was pointless. They made sense in the high-powered BT3 environment but would have been overpowered and possibly detrimental in BT1.
Interesting. While pricey early on, gold is so abundant by the time you reach the Catacombs I never saw much issue in paying Roscoe, even if his prices did make OPEC blush back in the day.

I don't think overpowered is the right word for the Harmonic Gems. It really depends on the drop rate. Every version I've played there has been a ton of them, but apparently in some versions they are quite rare in some versions, to the point to where it ruins the game.
They certainly make the game more flexible and convenient. And yes, they do fit the plot of BT3 a whole lot better.

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Drool » April 3rd, 2017, 10:36 pm

Frankly, the fewer consumable spell points, the better. There is no reason for a Hunter or a Fighter to have spell points, no matter what you call them. Roscoe's for all spell casters (including, sigh, priests) and the tavern for the Bard. That's plenty as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Crosmando » April 3rd, 2017, 10:44 pm

I disagree with the Priests/Paladins/Monks, mostly because Priests (in D&D and most fantasy settings) are not mages, their powers come from prayers to their god, which is different from a mage who's power is either learned or innate.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Drool » April 3rd, 2017, 10:54 pm

Well, monks shouldn't have spell points. They're ninjas. Low AC, lots of attacks. Fighters with a trick. Paladins don't really need it either, unless they get spells at higher levels. But in BT, they were just Warriors with a slightly different equipment set and much better saving throws.

Priests aren't freaking needed in the first place, and I'm still annoyed they're being included. Healing was perfectly covered by the existing mage classes, and the mage healing spells were even appropriate to the class's quirks. Well, except the Chronomancer's Vitality, which was pretty useless anyway because by the time you had that, you had HEAL and REST which were categorically superior.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by thebruce » April 4th, 2017, 6:27 am

Agreed.
Feels like there's more segmenting of spells into smaller, less capable classes, for the sake of having different classes, more selection, with each being more honed and specific in its capabilities (less capable, yet presumably, more powerful if so)

With the size of the spellbook, I thought the classic classes well covered the gamut of 'themes' amongst their spell-casting brethren. With a smaller party size and another spellcaster class effectively taking away spell themes from the others, it feels so far a little counter productive. I'm sure they'll find a way to try to make it work, but enh, leave the spellcasting specificity for Mage's Tale ;)

Feels like with all these classes soon we'll need a Plumber for..something.

And yeah, not every class needs consumable properties in order to be effective. Capabilties that are physical in nature are generally already covered by food in some form (including bards). I'd keep mental properties/attributes locationless; perhaps consumable to some degree (eg exhaustion if it's used in the game) but not replenishable via 'store'. Supernatural consumable makes sense (at least it can from a lore standpoint).
To jump on "Faith", as a consumable it just seems .. no. One's faith shouldn't rise and fall based on how much it's "used". Otherwise it's not faith.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Roscoe » May 20th, 2017, 6:51 am

My prices were perfectly fair and reasonable.

You people also seem to forget that I had to sit in that store each and every day.

Do you know how long it takes to get the smell of a corpse out of your store???!?!

I expect a full apology. You needed me more than I needed you.

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » May 20th, 2017, 10:23 am

:D

Hey Roscoe, please let inXile know that you would like to make a return in BT IV and that you are quite happy to sit around in your Energy Emporium all day, if it means that you will get to recharge genuine spell points and none of this concentration or cooldown stuff.... I'll even pay your exorbitant fees, if my magic users still have real spell points to spend.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Crosmando » May 20th, 2017, 3:22 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
May 20th, 2017, 10:23 am
:D

Hey Roscoe, please let inXile know that you would like to make a return in BT IV and that you are quite happy to sit around in your Energy Emporium all day, if it means that you will get to recharge genuine spell points and none of this concentration or cooldown stuff.... I'll even pay your exorbitant fees, if my magic users still have real spell points to spend.
Yeah, I wasn't going to complain about this because honestly even after rewatching the combat video, I'm not quite sure if it indicates that spell points (now mana) are no longer a limited resource that doesn't regenerate, all we know is that spellcasters now seem to be able to meditate in combat to get mana. This system could supplement buying mana from Roscoe's.

But yeah, can't argue with the cooldowns, which sucks because it's such an awfully restrictive way to balance abilities. And in this very thread I suggested a better alternative - give all classes there own unique resource pool like mana, make dungeon'ing a matter of managing limited resources.

Just wish they'd give us some real mechanics details so we have something to discuss instead of speculating.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Drool » May 21st, 2017, 12:40 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
May 20th, 2017, 10:23 am
Hey Roscoe, please let inXile know that you would like to make a return in BT IV and that you are quite happy to sit around in your Energy Emporium all day
Zombie Roscoe? :o
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » May 21st, 2017, 3:51 pm

What are you talking about, Drool? I'm a BT I guy, remember. BT III didn't happen. Only BT I is canonical Bard's Tale. :P
Just kidding, just kidding....
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by phimseto » May 21st, 2017, 4:21 pm

As fond as I am of Roscoe, wasn't he crunched by Tarjan at the beginning of Bard's Tale III?

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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » May 21st, 2017, 5:09 pm

phimseto wrote:As fond as I am of Roscoe, wasn't he crunched by Tarjan at the beginning of Bard's Tale III?
Allegedly - hence Drool's reference to "Zombie Roscoe" and my rejoinder about not accepting BT III as canon.

I think that the real point here was that I would like to see spell points in the new game without extra machinery like concentration or cooldowns.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Drool » May 21st, 2017, 8:56 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 5:09 pm
I think that the real point here was that I would like to see spell points in the new game without extra machinery like concentration or cooldowns.
Agreed. I especially hope to see the return of solar-powered mages.
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Crosmando » May 21st, 2017, 9:51 pm

phimseto wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 4:21 pm
As fond as I am of Roscoe, wasn't he crunched by Tarjan at the beginning of Bard's Tale III?
The business could of been taken over by his son or grandson I guess (how long is BT4 after 3 again?).
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Re: Roscoe's Energy Emporium equivalents

Post by Woolfe » May 21st, 2017, 10:53 pm

Crosmando wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 9:51 pm
phimseto wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 4:21 pm
As fond as I am of Roscoe, wasn't he crunched by Tarjan at the beginning of Bard's Tale III?
The business could of been taken over by his son or grandson I guess (how long is BT4 after 3 again?).
Or someone completely unrelated, but had heard of the great "Roscoe" :-)
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