Skills and Spells suggestion thread

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

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ZiN
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by ZiN » July 15th, 2015, 3:08 am

meganothing wrote:1) Spell interrupts in some form or other were used in tabletop RPGs and MMOs and therefore are not specific to MMOs.
As far as i know, the only non-MMO computer games that have this are Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and Temple of Elemental Evil. Why? Because they're trying to simulate (tabletop) D&D. Then we have PoE which tries to simulate the simulator, plus adding balanced concentration, thus making the mechanic trivial.
No, i don't think it would work well in a BT type of a game.
meganothing wrote:And spell interrupts to me look like abilities that could be specialities of ranger or rogue in this game with front and back rows.
Well, first and foremost it is (as it should be) the specialty of mages. Rogues yes, rangers, not-so much, in my opinion.

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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by thebruce » July 15th, 2015, 7:20 am

I think, on the very surface of "spell interruption", it would depend on its implementation. If casting a spell takes time (turns) which we already know is the intent now, concentration effectively, then one can define any action that breaks concentration a "spell interruption".

It could be as simple as that now having spells that can take more than 1 turn, any incoming attack could 'cancel' the spell. So it would be a combat strategy - attack the strong fighter who could maim you in the next blow, or swing at the mage who's casting a spell that could kill you in the next blow?

But I definitely don't think "spell interruption" should be an improveable skill... that seems even more out of place in BT. =/
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Drool » July 15th, 2015, 9:22 pm

eg: Gold Box.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Ether » July 16th, 2015, 5:00 am

The only issue with spell interruption in this particular game is that it also means that some spells will take more than one turn to cast.
Though I suppose it would serve to potentially nerf large direct damage spells and encourage other types of spells in the process.

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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by thebruce » July 16th, 2015, 6:48 am

Actually taking more than one turn to cast a spell was an idea presented first by the team. So spell interruption is an idea that later was discussed here because spells take longer to cast; not the other way around. Pretty sure we're getting multi-turn spellcasting any way we look at it.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 20th, 2015, 7:34 am

How about using voice software to cast spells?
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Drool » July 20th, 2015, 12:09 pm

wut
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 20th, 2015, 7:59 pm

Basically what I said, something like voice recognition software that would allow the player to read out spells (From the game manual...) to cast them and perhaps to nominate how they are attacking or what ever. Maybe even in game conversations with other characters in the game.

Another game, I backed over a year ago now and currently enjoy playing right now is Elite Dangerous the fourth in series of games about trading amongst many stars and planetary systems of the galaxy which is largely based on what is really been found by astrologers.

This game has a feature that allows players to operate their ship by voice commands spoken into a head set microphone. Mainly because it increasing the efficiently of getting stuff done in this game. It's not essential and many players, including myself don't use out of the fear that not making any use of their hand will cause them to atrophy and wither away. Yes, you could play the whole game just by using voice commands. Although using them to move around might be too complex to use.

Voice Attack is a independant add-on that can be purchase for a very cheap price on top of the main game to make this possible. Although I think player chat and the robotic voice of the ship's console came with the game. Hard to tell really. The ships 's console will give you verbals confirmations of when ever you alter any of the ship's functions. The best use of Voice Attack is a asking for permission to dock. Any time you need to know anything stored on either of the holographic menus on either side of the display in the middle would save your the trouble of looking in these if the console could just tell you after asking.

There is also a Voice-Pack that allows you to choose other voices for the ship's console and perhaps do what I said about Voice attack above. I'm a bit confused about this right now, and know it's totally irelevant to this game.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Zombra » July 20th, 2015, 9:58 pm

Implementing a wacky novelty interface is way way way out of scope for this project.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Priest4hire » July 21st, 2015, 2:20 am

ZiN wrote:As far as i know, the only non-MMO computer games that have this are Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and Temple of Elemental Evil. Why? Because they're trying to simulate (tabletop) D&D. Then we have PoE which tries to simulate the simulator, plus adding balanced concentration, thus making the mechanic trivial.
No, i don't think it would work well in a BT type of a game.
Ah, so much for the impact of one's rhetoric. As I previously pointed out, Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land has spell interrupts. But not as a class ability, and within the old fashioned phase based system. It worked quite well actually. To do it bound up 2 members of the back row. And I suppose that was the justification. Being shielded by the front row freed them up to watch for a caster and make the interrupt and two sets of eyes, and arms, for better coverage. Magic in Wizardry is quite dangerous, especially since enemy casters don't need to conserve theirs. So yeah, very nice.

To me, with the so called dynamic phase based, the time weirdness is bad enough as it is. Adding delayed time effects only makes the artificiality of it that much worse. This system is really bad at that kind of thing. Much better is say, regular non-dynamic phase based or Final Fantasy Tactics style turn-based. Or any system with actual initiative. If you're going to effectively remove time from your combat system you can't then turn around and draw on it without creating logic issues.

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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 21st, 2015, 7:54 pm

Zombra wrote:Implementing a wacky novelty interface is way way way out of scope for this project.
Well, it's just suggestion, I'm not even sure if it would suit the plan for the game.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 22nd, 2015, 2:37 am

I was only going by what I saw in the game video so far.

Your know flames going along dungeon corridor the magic mouth and the odd wizard twins right the end.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Zombra » July 22nd, 2015, 11:52 am

Hey, I have nothing against wacky suggestions, keep them coming. Just don't be offended if I call them out for being too wacky. :)
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by EkstasisXI » July 22nd, 2015, 6:32 pm

Crosmando wrote:I'd love to see different schools of magic, ie Fire, Wind, Earth, Water, C̶a̶p̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶P̶l̶a̶n̶e̶t̶, especially high-level spells like summoning a tornado or earthquake. Powerful AoE spells are very Bard's Tale. Also have enemy elementals from each element, so if you use a Fireball against a Fire elemental it heals them instead of hurting them, and so on. This would encourage players to build a diverse party.

Also, Rogues should be able to disarm and steal from enemies mid-fight, ie a Rogue can steal a sword from an enemy barbarian or a staff/wand from an enemy mage, so they need to fight with their fists for the rest of the battle.
If we are going in the direction of diametric opposites, I hate the four elements wheel intensely, as well as any other cliched form of magic or skilltree. It seems redundant that games repeat themselves all the time.
It seems redundant that games repeat themselves all the time.
It seems redundant that games repeat themselves all the time.
It seems redundant that games repeat themselves all the time.
It seems redundant that games repeat themselves all the time.

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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Crosmando » July 22nd, 2015, 6:49 pm

There's many different types of RPGs that would benefit from being "unique", BT4 is not one of them. In fact I'd say a BT game benefits from holding true to the old traditions of high fantasy RPGs.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 23rd, 2015, 5:29 am

Crosmando wrote:There's many different types of RPGs that would benefit from being "unique", BT4 is not one of them. In fact I'd say a BT game benefits from holding true to the old traditions of high fantasy RPGs.

You know, I thought the last Bard's Tale game was unique when compare to the rest of the series and my idea about casting spells by actually saying them into you head-set microphone very fitting.

Kind of like the person who suggested Mandolin or Flute-Hero.....
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Crosmando » July 23rd, 2015, 5:32 am

...
Matthias did nothing wrong!

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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Orpheus the Bard » July 23rd, 2015, 9:26 am

Crosmando wrote:...
Read about it here on the Frontier Forums. They just made Elite Dangerous....
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Themadcow » July 23rd, 2015, 11:56 am

As an Elite player myself I can confirm it works fantastically well in that game, especially stuff like redistrubuting power or shields and the like. Not sure about it in a turn/phase based environment like BT but hey, this is an ideas based thread, so worth a mention. I little bit of me quite likes the idea of saying "phase door" into a microphone to create a portal through the walls.
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Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Drool » July 24th, 2015, 12:32 pm

Orpheus the Bard wrote:You know, I thought the last Bard's Tale game was unique when compare to the rest of the series
Yes, the non-canon spin-off that has nothing in common with the series save naming a town Skara Brae and the title of the game because inXile could only legally use the three words "The Bard's Tale" was quite unique compared to the rest of the series.

That's not exactly a compelling argument.


And, frankly, I have no interest in barking at my computer to play a game. I was gifted some squad-based game that, even in single player, required a microphone (to issue commands to AI squadmates, I guess). I saw the title splash screen, an opening cinematic, and then the game stopped until I plugged in a microphone. I turned the game off and uninstalled it.

I have a very nice keyboard and an even nicer mouse. If you can't make your game work with the hundreds of input combinations afforded by those two devices, then I see no need to waste my time. To say nothing of the uncomfortable looks I'd get from my wife if she heard me yelling "DRBR! DRBR! DRBR!" at one in the morning.
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