Skills and Spells suggestion thread

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

Post Reply
User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 662
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by ZiN » July 12th, 2017, 2:45 am

SESI (Second Sight): Detect traps and points of interest and has a chance to detect secrets.
SOSI (Sorcerer Sight): As SESI, but a greater chance to detect, automap becomes more detailed, lasts longer and radius is increased.
ARSI (Arcane Sight): Ultimate exploring spell, very good chance to detect everything, including invisible / dimensional stuff and displays them on the automap as well.
TRZP: (Trap Zap): Disarm trap.

Detect Secrets (dwarf & elf): Has a chance to detect secrets ahead.
Trap disarming (rogue).
Treasure finding (rogue, bard, dwarf): Increase the chance of finding additional gold & items.
Scouting (elf & hunter): Automap displays monsters in a greater radius.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1835
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2017, 10:50 am

As the CrazyRussianHacker says, "tumbs up frum me!"
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

NewlyObsessedFan
Initiate
Posts: 20
Joined: January 8th, 2018, 9:48 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by NewlyObsessedFan » January 8th, 2018, 11:46 am

SUDF - "Summon Dire Ferret" - a high-lvl attack spells that incapacitates an enemy via a mad ferret-like creature with own HP counter that latches on to their face and won't let go until they knock it away via attacks, depleting its HP bar.

Effects: Ferret has own HP (small amount) Affected enemy can do no actions except try melee attacks against face-latched ferret, which if missed do a bit of damage to themselves. Other enemies can target the latched enemy to try and help knock the ferret off if - misses do limited damage to the enemy. While ferret stays on, any heal spells or abilities that target friendly, can target that square to heal the ferret and make it stay on longer.

When HP depleted, ferret falls off and scurries away, loudly swearing vengeance on all involved in snarl-speak

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5795
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Woolfe » January 9th, 2018, 7:37 pm

NewlyObsessedFan wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 11:46 am
SUDF - "Summon Dire Ferret" - a high-lvl attack spells that incapacitates an enemy via a mad ferret-like creature with own HP counter that latches on to their face and won't let go until they knock it away via attacks, depleting its HP bar.

Effects: Ferret has own HP (small amount) Affected enemy can do no actions except try melee attacks against face-latched ferret, which if missed do a bit of damage to themselves. Other enemies can target the latched enemy to try and help knock the ferret off if - misses do limited damage to the enemy. While ferret stays on, any heal spells or abilities that target friendly, can target that square to heal the ferret and make it stay on longer.

When HP depleted, ferret falls off and scurries away, loudly swearing vengeance on all involved in snarl-speak
I think ferret legging "mad ferret-like creature squirms into pants and starts biting" would be more amusing. Badguy proceeds to Dance around maniacally hitting themselves about the legs and crotch area, until exhausted ferret flees out the nearest pant opening and away.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3615
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Gizmo » January 10th, 2018, 2:02 am

Have it summon two ferrets; Koto and Podo.

User avatar
Jademonk
Initiate
Posts: 24
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 5:59 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Jademonk » April 18th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Crosmando wrote:
July 8th, 2015, 11:22 pm
I'd love to see different schools of magic, ie Fire, Wind, Earth, Water, C̶a̶p̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶P̶l̶a̶n̶e̶t̶, especially high-level spells like summoning a tornado or earthquake. Powerful AoE spells are very Bard's Tale. Also have enemy elementals from each element, so if you use a Fireball against a Fire elemental it heals them instead of hurting them, and so on. This would encourage players to build a diverse party.

Also, Rogues should be able to disarm and steal from enemies mid-fight, ie a Rogue can steal a sword from an enemy barbarian or a staff/wand from an enemy mage, so they need to fight with their fists for the rest of the battle.
Having high level rogues be able to steal items from monsters during combat would be sweet. I'd love to see this, provided it isn't overpowered.

User avatar
Jademonk
Initiate
Posts: 24
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 5:59 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Jademonk » April 18th, 2018, 3:14 pm

Two things I want to throw out there.

First, combat positioning choices should focus mainly on this question: how much protection do my spellcasters need this round? If you keep your fighters close to your mages, they should be safe, but this won't necessarily be the most efficient approach. On the other hand, if you're willing to send your fighters on a rampage deep into enemy territory, they should have the opportunity to create far more havok than if they are kept close to home... but this should increase the risk of some monsters slipping through the 'lines' and taking out your casters. (Of course, this is a generalization... I'd have to try the new system out in order to make more specific, practical suggestions).

Second, there has been some discussion about how combat in classic Bard's Tale could be redundant, boiling down to a lot of AAAADDD. This is true, of course, but the real point was resource management. Sure, I could hurl the toughest spells against the weakest monsters every time they come calling, but that would waste spell points, so I don't. Sure, some of my guys are down to 2/3 hit points, but I won't cast REST yet because I can probably get away with one more combat before needing it. It was about trying to find the most efficient way possible to proceed, and this made the games interesting even if the combat was often simple and redundant. (I'm not sure if there is lesson in this for BT4, but there could be...)

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 662
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by ZiN » April 19th, 2018, 5:33 am

Jademonk wrote:
April 18th, 2018, 3:14 pm
If you're willing to send your fighters on a rampage deep into enemy territory, they should have the opportunity to create far more havok than if they are kept close to home... but this should increase the risk of some monsters slipping through the 'lines' and taking out your casters.
Yeah, traditionally the fighters' job is to take the hits and be a meatshield for the rest of the party. They did this very well in BT, and once they gained a few levels and some magic weapons, they became reliable executioners, killing 1 melee opponent every round.

On the other hand, apart from the very beginning of the game, BT (aka. Cranfordian) magic-users were no weaklings either. This is partly due to how the magic school system worked (many level ups by changing schools) and partly due to their huge spell repertoire. A Magician of respectable level had access to STTO and DEST both of which are capable of instantly killing almost anything at 10', while it was nigh impossible to get in melee range of a master Conjurer due to FAFO (Tarjan and Sceadu mastered this in BT3). 1st level Wizards had the FOFO spell, which did very high AoE damage to a group in melee range.
Of course magic-resistance/immunity, phazing (eg. spell point drain) and anti-magic zones really screwed them up. Running away, like Sir Robin, sometimes with heavy losses was tough, but then again, somehow these good old games were much more honest, fun and challenging, than anything we will see in these times.
So yeah, magic-users weren't that much more squishy, and really tough oppnents would kill any character regardless of class and equipment anyway. You mostly wanted to keep magic-users alive, because they could heal and resurrect the rest of the party.
Jademonk wrote:
April 18th, 2018, 3:14 pm
Second, there has been some discussion about how combat in classic Bard's Tale could be redundant, boiling down to a lot of AAAADDD. This is true, of course, but the real point was resource management. Sure, I could hurl the toughest spells against the weakest monsters every time they come calling, but that would waste spell points, so I don't. Sure, some of my guys are down to 2/3 hit points, but I won't cast REST yet because I can probably get away with one more combat before needing it. It was about trying to find the most efficient way possible to proceed, and this made the games interesting even if the combat was often simple and redundant. (I'm not sure if there is lesson in this for BT4, but there could be...)
You hit the nail on the head, with this. There really should be a lesson and that is, long-term resource management and planning were a very strong, signature element of Bard's Tale and other great dungeon-crawlers and roguelikes.
Finding the mana recharging fountains in Wizardry, just at the right time was awesome. Ingenious level-design. Learning the layout and planning routes to this fountain is essential dungeon-crawling gameplay. Combine this with BT, where I can also use Phase Door and Apport Arcane cleverly to plan my occasional retreats. Ah well, alas this isn't Wizardry's Tale, but we can dream...

By the way, Jademonk, I have noticed you have voted on the thread, thanks for that. But given your above comment, I find it strange that you haven't included "+ Long term SP pool (spell AP cost subtracts from, no casting when zero)" on your list.

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3615
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Gizmo » April 19th, 2018, 5:45 am

Jademonk wrote:
April 18th, 2018, 3:14 pm
First, combat positioning choices should focus mainly on this question: how much protection do my spellcasters need this round? If you keep your fighters close to your mages, they should be safe, but this won't necessarily be the most efficient approach. On the other hand, if you're willing to send your fighters on a rampage deep into enemy territory, they should have the opportunity to create far more havok than if they are kept close to home... but this should increase the risk of some monsters slipping through the 'lines' and taking out your casters.
I would have preferred that their combat engine support attack on multiple fronts, (over the ability to advance party members into the enemy ranks... But unfortunately the combat is first person, instead of ISO/3D... but I just don't think turn based FPP works well when open to attacks from the sides, and behind. :(
Image

Flank attacks would have opened the back row to melee fighters, and support the double edge gamble of backing the party against one or more walls; which can control the number of threats, yet can also trap the party. One could imagine mages summoning minion fighters behind them (in the cell/tile) or to the sides, in combat; to defend them.

User avatar
Jademonk
Initiate
Posts: 24
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 5:59 am

Re: Skills and Spells suggestion thread

Post by Jademonk » April 19th, 2018, 12:27 pm

By the way, Jademonk, I have noticed you have voted on the thread, thanks for that. But given your above comment, I find it strange that you haven't included "+ Long term SP pool (spell AP cost subtracts from, no casting when zero)" on your list.
Thank you for pointing this out. I've corrected the oversight.

When I saw that on the list, it must have gone over my head, because the thought of not having that as a feature is something I find well-nigh inconceivable. How can you not have a long term spell point pool in a Bard's Tale game?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests