Grid vs free movement

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thebruce
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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by thebruce » June 8th, 2015, 9:06 am

I'm contrasting a game with zero text interface. I don't necessarily mean a UI that's the same as the classic. I just mean I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no box where text is presented to the player. And, the in-engine video isn't a demo of the UI...
We shall see, once they release a gameplay video.
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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Drool » June 8th, 2015, 1:09 pm

I dunno. It seems they could implement a little scroll in the corner, kind of like how WL2 had the dot-matrix printer.
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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by jrodman » June 8th, 2015, 2:50 pm

Well, text ribbon, and some text appearing on the screen at times are definitely not the same. Still, with the goal of a UI-less experience being out there, I'm doubting even appearing text is planned for the normal UI.

There are other ways to hint, of course. When you cast a spell that doesn't work, your caster could comment on the failure out loud in their own voice, for example.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by paultakeda » June 8th, 2015, 10:00 pm

It'd be interesting if all spell casting required vocal chanting. The bard clearly needs to be able to sing but do mages have to say words or can they just point their staff?

You could have any number of failures done without descriptive text floating on the screen: a spell roll could critically fail and the spellcaster fumbles the spell by stuttering or halting or saying the wrong word. No special effects, just words followed by cursing; if a spell cast succeeds but is ineffective you'd see the spell visually but it would be followed by a muttering from the mage or a questioning, "Uh... that should have worked?"

It would be interesting if numbers never showed at all. The visualized combatant simply starts to look messed up (everyone gets a Doom portrait head, including enemies).

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Crosmando » June 8th, 2015, 10:12 pm

In Thunderscape you actually had visual animations for your party's attacks, so when you attacked an enemy with a sword you see the sword swing momentarily (from first-person) in a similar way to first-person action games like Hexen. That could be a compromise between showing the whole party and not showing it at all, while the game remains fully first-person.
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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by jrodman » June 8th, 2015, 10:17 pm

paultakeda wrote:It'd be interesting if all spell casting required vocal chanting. The bard clearly needs to be able to sing but do mages have to say words or can they just point their staff?
My guess: if spells have spoken components, they will only be employed rarely. Think about how annoying it would be to hear your casters do some kind of chant (sounding identical each time) for Mind Blade 40 times in a row, for example.
You could have any number of failures done without descriptive text floating on the screen: a spell roll could critically fail and the spellcaster fumbles the spell by stuttering or halting or saying the wrong word. No special effects, just words followed by cursing; if a spell cast succeeds but is ineffective you'd see the spell visually but it would be followed by a muttering from the mage or a questioning, "Uh... that should have worked?"
Even more offtopic...

Critical failures for spells sound out of character for the game style but yet AMAZING. I've become super enamored with chaos in fantasy games after playing Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG tabletop game, where each spell has its own unique table for error results. Example: featherfall work for a fraction of a second making you feel relaxed, then fail and drop you anyway, or maybe it drops you FASTER, or SIDEWAYS!

Yeah we're not getting that, but I love it so much.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by paultakeda » June 8th, 2015, 10:21 pm

jrodman wrote:
paultakeda wrote:It'd be interesting if all spell casting required vocal chanting. The bard clearly needs to be able to sing but do mages have to say words or can they just point their staff?
My guess: if spells have spoken components, they will only be employed rarely. Think about how annoying it would be to hear your casters do some kind of chant (sounding identical each time) for Mind Blade 40 times in a row, for example.
I'd say it could be a single word for basic spells like Mind Blade (or even just a pointy finger) but for more complex ones you could have some more, and this casting time could affect initiative. If actions were partially phased you could have a mage take a turn to cast and starts chanting but then a monster acts next and interrupts the spell cast because the casting time takes time.
jrodman wrote:Critical failures for spells sound out of character for the game style but yet AMAZING. I've become super enamored with chaos in fantasy games after playing Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG tabletop game, where each spell has its own unique table for error results. Example: featherfall work for a fraction of a second making you feel relaxed, then fail and drop you anyway, or maybe it drops you FASTER, or SIDEWAYS!

Yeah we're not getting that, but I love it so much.
Why not? A critical fail could end up doing all sorts of stuff in a 3D environment. It'd be hilarious to cast MAFL and end up setting the dungeon on fire and everyone takes damage -- we did see a dungeon on fire in that video, after all.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Gizmo » June 8th, 2015, 10:26 pm

Crosmando wrote:In Thunderscape you actually had visual animations for your party's attacks, so when you attacked an enemy with a sword you see the sword swing momentarily (from first-person) in a similar way to first-person action games like Hexen. That could be a compromise between showing the whole party and not showing it at all, while the game remains fully first-person.
Stone Keep had this as well; only a little different. The combat was realtime with dual wielded weapons, but if you had NPCs, you would see their attacks come in alongside your PC's attacks.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Drool » June 9th, 2015, 12:26 pm

paultakeda wrote:It'd be interesting if all spell casting required vocal chanting. The bard clearly needs to be able to sing but do mages have to say words or can they just point their staff?
I always imagined the mages said the four letter code, even when it was unpronounceable gibberish. Especially when it was unpronounceable gibberish.

Of course, I may have just liked the image of dinky little gnomes screaming "NUKE!" over and over again.
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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by paultakeda » June 9th, 2015, 3:07 pm

It would be kind of awesome if that's precisely what they say in BTIV.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Lucius » June 9th, 2015, 4:41 pm

Idk, I'd like the fake words like the Ultima series....In Vas Mas, Corp Por, Vas In Flam Grav, etc.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by ZiN » June 9th, 2015, 4:53 pm

Extremely off-topic, but a few of the games with good spell-casting chants:
Wizardry8: Very cool and diverse, and male laidback 2 is so funny i fell out of my chair laughing the first few times i heard it.
Baldur's Gate series: Latin words, associated with the spell school of the spell being cast.
Might & Magic X: Subtle and mystical.

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by Gizmo » June 10th, 2015, 5:37 am

Arx Fatalis; where each word has actual meaning when said, and casting a spell.
(And not only that, but the player can figure the meanings out, and deduce undocumented spells that work, but that don't show up in the spell book.)

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Re: Grid vs free movement

Post by DNACowboy » February 11th, 2017, 6:13 am

thebruce wrote:DNACowboy - seems you missed the news. Brian has indicated they are planning on a 'snap to grid' option. So best of both worlds. (although that implies the map will also be grid-based as the classic series, which to me means YAY! :D ) But you get your free movement and looking as well.
Sorry for the tardy reply :roll: after seeing the combat footage I was very pleased (apart from the awful 2D portraits) but thanks very much for the heads up at that time.
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