Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Announcements & media coverage pertaining to The Bard's Tale series. Only moderators & inXile can make new threads on this forum.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1875
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by thebruce » July 11th, 2018, 8:35 am

ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
Let's be honest, many game mechancis in BT I - III essentially broke down once your party got out of diapers.
enh. Strategies changed. Mechanics didn't break.
ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
The old combat system was tense and interesting until it wasn't anymore three dungeons into the game.
Because the contexts changed, abillities changed, strategies changed. Mechanics didn't break.
ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
The magic system had the usual extreme power curve where they were useless at first, then useful, and then overpowered (around the point where the hand-to-hand combat system becomes meaningless is where the spellcasters take over).
I beg to differ. My front line grew to the point of each having some manner of HIGHLY effectively 1-to-1 combat, so while the spellcasters attempted to deal with ranged foes, they also helped try to pull them to melee range or hold off the attacks until I could advance, so they could be swatted down.
Strategies changed. Mechanics didn't break.
ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
And character development was just getting a random attribute and your HP and SP raised every now and then. Extra spells, multiple attacks, critical hits and poorly implemented trap disarming skills weren't bad development venues back in the day, but the suggested BT IV system is far superior.
YMMV. We'll find out how well they implement trendy gameplay mechanics into a vastly different system than the original games had.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

balinor
Acolyte
Posts: 58
Joined: May 6th, 2016, 2:49 am

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by balinor » July 11th, 2018, 9:49 am

thebruce wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 8:35 am
ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
The old combat system was tense and interesting until it wasn't anymore three dungeons into the game.
Because the contexts changed, abillities changed, strategies changed. Mechanics didn't break.
I keep seeing people complain about the old combat system and how it "had" to be changed, yet the reality for me is that I am still playing and enjoying Bard's Tale 1,2 and 3 thirty years later and a large part of that is because of the old combat system. I for one love it and I am deeply sad they felt the need to change it for number 4.

User avatar
paultakeda
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2804
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 2:47 pm
Location: AAAAAARGH!

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by paultakeda » July 11th, 2018, 11:06 am

I wanted 297 Barbarians and 1 Wizard attacking at the same time; I had no illusions about this becoming a reality for BTIV, given the visual representation of games today versus a text window.

But what I have always advocated in these revivals, primarily because it doesn't exist in any modern AAA game, is the party-based RPG where there is no chosen one. That's probably the only truly hard rule I have had for Wasteland and The Bard's Tale, and it's largely been met.

Am I bitter about certain things? Sure. I really wanted the saving throw and critical d6 reroll of WL-MSPE to survive, but I can accept its loss (took a while, though). BT's RPG system seemed pretty basic to me, so the new combat, which plays to the strengths of the visual medium, looks like a decent one that still alludes to the old system.

As for classes... I will miss the Monk, but who is to say a sub-class is in there that alludes to the Monk? We've already known the lore of BTIV was going to go hard Celtic since it was announced, whereas the original series was closer to high fantasy using Celtic words. There is likely a lot of thought to have gone into the various cultures' appearances and talents, and I would not be surprised that they are heavily informed by Celtic folklore.

If elves are akin to Tuatha De Danann, then yes, they live a long damn time and are masters of arcane arts. Dwarfs are interesting here. They don't really look like what we think of as dwarfs, and more resemble classic Celtic warriors who painted themselves blue and were reputed to be highly motivated warriors (read: "stubborn"). And trow? That's pretty much solid Celtic folklore: short, ugly, nocturnal. Interestingly, they like music, so I wonder if trow bards get a bonus.

I'm just going to sit and wait and see how it turns out.

(and yes, I was a fan of The Bard's Tale 2004 -- it was different, but so what? it was a fun game)

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9730
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by Drool » July 11th, 2018, 11:21 am

paultakeda wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 11:06 am
Dwarfs are interesting here. They don't really look like what we think of as dwarfs, and more resemble classic Celtic warriors who painted themselves blue and were reputed to be highly motivated warriors (read: "stubborn").
Honestly, the hulking dwarves feel more Norse than anything.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1875
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by thebruce » July 11th, 2018, 11:32 am

The dwarfs... it's interesting. If it is an accurate depiction of the 'culture' given the context of the game, I still wonder how many people are going to look at the model and think 'wtf?' I mean it could be an educational point, but I can't think of anyone who imagines a dwarf to look like that; it almost seems like a mistake. I can respect that the artists may be trying to keep in line with the lore being used for the game, so it may be accurate given that... but it just seems like a dramatic departure from the norm. I'd chalk it up to a shock-factor design decision if it weren't just a 3D model visual design choice :)
(and yes, I was a fan of The Bard's Tale 2004 -- it was different, but so what? it was a fun game)
Right, I agree; and I don't recall anyone really vehemently claiming it wasn't a fun game by its own merit; only that it's really not a fit for the "Bard's Tale" brand in context of the original trilogy. Right now BT4 is shaping up to feel more like a sort of sequel to BT2004 in the original trilogy genre, rather than a BT1-3 sequel but falvoured with BT2004's style. (though both cases are feeling much more like BT2004's flavouring when it comes to atmosphere and attitude)

Really curious about how the beta will fly!
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
paultakeda
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2804
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 2:47 pm
Location: AAAAAARGH!

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by paultakeda » July 11th, 2018, 1:15 pm

Drool wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 11:21 am
Honestly, the hulking dwarves feel more Norse than anything.
Which is interesting, since dwarfs are very much a part of Scandanavian folklore, but were not described as short until the 16th century.
thebruce wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 11:32 am
The dwarfs... it's interesting. If it is an accurate depiction of the 'culture' given the context of the game, I still wonder how many people are going to look at the model and think 'wtf?' I mean it could be an educational point, but I can't think of anyone who imagines a dwarf to look like that; it almost seems like a mistake. I can respect that the artists may be trying to keep in line with the lore being used for the game, so it may be accurate given that... but it just seems like a dramatic departure from the norm. I'd chalk it up to a shock-factor design decision if it weren't just a 3D model visual design choice :)
Thing is, blue painted warriors of the isles are more fiction than truth. There is no actual evidence that they painted themselves blue, so a blue-tinted dwarf in Bard's Tale IV could be seen as an entirely original idea based on Roman stories about the Picts (and Braveheart) conflated with the old, pre-16th century Norse idea of a dwarf.

Maybe a dev from creative will come on here and explain it.

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 670
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by ZiN » July 11th, 2018, 2:27 pm

Dwarves...

Instead of pseudo-historical folklore, perhaps they could have drawn inspiration from Bard's Tale 3. Dwarves could be excellent tinkers, with high mechanical skills. Crafting enhancements, arming and disarming traps, finding valuable minerals and so on. Especially with gnomes removed from the world. After all, Ferofist created hosts of intricate machines, even thinking ones. Adding a mechanical arm enhancement here, some goggles there, or deploying some kind of bot could've been fun.
But sure, being immune to stuns/roots is OP and fun too, and dwarves make fine berserkers with Scottish accents, just like in every single run of the mill game out there. (With a few honourable exceptions of course.)

User avatar
paultakeda
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2804
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 2:47 pm
Location: AAAAAARGH!

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by paultakeda » July 11th, 2018, 2:45 pm

ZiN wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:27 pm
Instead of pseudo-historical folklore, perhaps they could have drawn inspiration from Bard's Tale 3. Dwarves could be excellent tinkers, with high mechanical skills.
BTIV was keen on using Celtic folklore since the very beginning, so it isn't as if this should come as a surprise. Besides, other than preconceptions about fantasy dwarfs, there's nothing wrong with having something different but still of a similar mold -- they are still stubborn and strong warriors here.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by Zombra » July 11th, 2018, 2:53 pm

ZiN wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:27 pm
Dwarves...
Hey man, you can't complain about them looking too different and then complain about their abilities being too generic. Make up your mind! ;)
Image

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 670
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by ZiN » July 11th, 2018, 3:42 pm

Ehh, making dwarves look like tall, hulking brutes is "something different but still of a similar mold" now?
Also, should it prevent complaints about InXile shitting on Bard's Tale lore?

Sorry, I don't really get your logic, guys. I will keep complaining about everything, where I feel the product is not in line, with the advertised "true sequel to Bard's Tale 1-3" and the "revival of the classic dungeon-crawl". And I'm afraid this is only the tip of the iceberg, which we are going to hit tomorrow.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by Zombra » July 11th, 2018, 3:47 pm

I just thought it was weird you complained about them being too run of the mill shortly after complaining they're not run of the mill enough. Carry on and good luck tomorrow, I'm sure we'll all have a lot to say :D
Image

User avatar
paultakeda
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2804
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 2:47 pm
Location: AAAAAARGH!

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by paultakeda » July 11th, 2018, 4:40 pm

ZiN wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 3:42 pm
Ehh, making dwarves look like tall, hulking brutes is "something different but still of a similar mold" now?
Fantasy races/cultures can be regarded in two ways: their appearance and their abilities. this BTIV dwarf is something different in appearance, but still of a similar mold in abilities; it is still dwarfish in that dwarfs in BTIV are tough, which translates to being immune to knockback and stunning. In D&D, dwarfs are also tough, translating to game mechanic bonuses in HP, constitution, and saving throws from poison.

ZiN wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 3:42 pm
Also, should it prevent complaints about InXile shitting on Bard's Tale lore?

Sorry, I don't really get your logic, guys. I will keep complaining about everything, where I feel the product is not in line, with the advertised "true sequel to Bard's Tale 1-3" and the "revival of the classic dungeon-crawl". And I'm afraid this is only the tip of the iceberg, which we are going to hit tomorrow.
Feel free to complain. I am free to comment.

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1172
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 11th, 2018, 6:40 pm

balinor wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 9:49 am
thebruce wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 8:35 am
ZZGO wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 2:08 am
The old combat system was tense and interesting until it wasn't anymore three dungeons into the game.
Because the contexts changed, abillities changed, strategies changed. Mechanics didn't break.
I keep seeing people complain about the old combat system and how it "had" to be changed, yet the reality for me is that I am still playing and enjoying Bard's Tale 1,2 and 3 thirty years later and a large part of that is because of the old combat system. I for one love it and I am deeply sad they felt the need to change it for number 4.
Agreed. And, it is grimly amusing to watch people try to justify a totally different system rather than try to fix what they claim was broken in the originals.
cmibl<enter>

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1172
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 11th, 2018, 6:56 pm

paultakeda wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 1:15 pm
Thing is, blue painted warriors of the isles are more fiction than truth. There is no actual evidence that they painted themselves blue, so a blue-tinted dwarf in Bard's Tale IV could be seen as an entirely original idea based on Roman stories about the Picts (and Braveheart) conflated with the old, pre-16th century Norse idea of a dwarf.
Not specifically blue, perhaps, but they were painted. The word Pict literally comes from the Latin Picti, "the Painted Ones". Based on information supplied by inXile thus far, it seems that the Fichti are more likely being used as proxies for the Pict identity. That's not to say that they might not be spreading cultural traits around a little to better disguise the analogues from Earth history from which they drew.
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
paultakeda
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2804
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 2:47 pm
Location: AAAAAARGH!

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by paultakeda » July 11th, 2018, 9:45 pm

Yes, but a Roman account of a people they never really got to see except in combat as Roman expansion never got that far north is where we get the name for the Picts. Archeaologically, there isn't much there to provide evidence one way or the other. It's likely the Romans were facing a coalition, and one could posit that to for unity's sake the coalition decided to paint themselves (much like a tartan denotes a clan).

Anyhow, yes, the Fichti are there, too, but creative license.

All this is to say: I'm fine with blue dwarfs because they're still strong and resilient as a character class type.

junk11
Novice
Posts: 37
Joined: April 13th, 2012, 4:02 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by junk11 » July 14th, 2018, 11:11 am

Don't like this "subclass" system, it's just basically naming an ability with a class title.
Where are the monk, paladin or others from the orginal?

PsychicMonk
Scholar
Posts: 159
Joined: April 16th, 2012, 10:54 am

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by PsychicMonk » July 14th, 2018, 4:24 pm

I'm extremely disappointed if Monks are really not available as a (sub)class.
Both Monks and Paladins were announced in update 11 "Let’s Talk Classes and Races":

"Monks will embrace a bit of a unique combat concept, where they will continue to get stronger as fights or even dungeon exploration progresses, making them more powerful the more you push on (incidentally discouraging rest spamming!). Finally Paladins (with requisite +1 Holy Sword) serve as your faithful shield, protecting the party and providing various status modifiers to your party or enemies. It will be fun to explore more of these concepts with you moving forward."

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9730
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by Drool » July 14th, 2018, 4:44 pm

I specifically looked at all the end state specializations of all three archetypes and didn't see monks, paladins, or hunters.

BUT.

There appears to be a sidequest to unlock Priests. And the Review Board is there for changing roles (or something like that). My theory is that Monk, Paladin, Hunter, and Priest are all "prestige" classes that you unlock via gameplay and activate via the Review Board. Which would be one for each archetype. Presumably Hunters are from Rogues, Priests from Practitioners, Paladins from Fighters, which would leave Monks from Bards.

...because Monks chant? I dunno. Maybe they unlock regardless of your archetype. But that's just me spitballing.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

_noblesse_oblige_
Master
Posts: 1172
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 14th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Maybe if you ask one of the Fatherites really nicely, they'll let you become one of their Paladins. :lol:
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9730
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Spotlight #1: Character Creation

Post by Drool » July 14th, 2018, 5:07 pm

If the Fatherites are going to be the bad guys, does that mean that everyone in Skara Brae has...

...daddy issues?
Alwa nasci korliri das.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest