demeisen wrote: ↑September 16th, 2017, 11:15 am
Drool wrote: ↑September 15th, 2017, 6:15 pm
It was never about the strategy in fighting a single group of random encounter foes. It was about resource management across numerous encounters in succession. When each fight involves enemy juggling and buff/debuff management and meditation and item use and all that stuff, all the focus is on the individual fight.
As much as we might want different things at the battle level, I wholeheartedly agree with you there. One of the primary things I liked in BT1 was having to manage your party resources over a whole dungeon dive. Since then, RPGs have been moving ever more towards "insta-regen", which I loathe. Many players want to meet every encounter at full strength, unload all they've got in a massive blaze of glory, regenerate, and repeat. To me, that ruins the sense of adventure and having to make strategic choices about when to use powerful but resource-expensive abilities. Long term resources make even the small encounters meaningful, because now they have a cost. It also makes me think about when it's time to turn around and head back when I'm exploring a new, dangerous area.
Ah yes true I hadn't even considered that (obvious) aspect - SP and HP counts being so high as you progressed certainly made the adventures a more -long-term concern, not just battle to battle but dungeon-dive to dungeon-exit. If total points are giving way to per-combat resources that regen after each, there's much
less focus on long-term planning and strategizing. And that's something that I agree is also quite different than the BT style.
Related: one of the developers stated in an update that they want to allow you to get to places you shouldn't, and have the "learning experience" of a drubbing by things much meaner than you. Cheers to that! Too many games use level-gated areas to hold my hand, dole out encounters in carefully measured doses, and ensure I never get in over my head. But much like with resource management, I want the game to let me get in over my head.
Some games get around that by making too-high creature either not fight you because you're too weak and you're uninteresting, or have lower level creatures run away before you can do anything if you're too high level. I think the former is, generally, not so bad (you probably wouldn't win anyway so it would be suicide - so it would be a matter of letting the player commit suicide or not :P tho just having that choice is a good thing; it would really moreso depend on the 'character' of the creature). The latter though, don't have every weak creature run just because we're too powerful. Classics did have a run mechanic for weak enemies, but always after the first round and it wasn't 100% success (or even 100% attempt). So keep that combat imbalance there, definitely.
demeisen wrote: ↑September 17th, 2017, 11:46 am
I like games that let me explore and possibly get myself in deep trouble. If BT4 is willing to buck the mainstream there, who knows, maybe it also might around long term resources.
I picture the fellowship of the ring, exploring Moria... and coming up on the Balrog...
THAT is intensity. You know you're about to be in over your head. Hints, tips, environment, warnings - yet you can still step in. Bad guy can wipe you out, or maybe there's some way for you to run and get out of dodge. But it's there. It's your choice. And there's lead-up, so it's not an unfair turn-a-corner-and-you're-dead occurrence.
Gizmo wrote: ↑September 17th, 2017, 3:41 pm
Is it possible to have combats on stairs? (Will those combats come with a statistical advantage for the force with the high-ground?)
Yep. Curious. Classics you imagined things like stairs, thrones, room, tunnels, forests. Now they're visible, and as said in the update, the combat algorithm determines by the actual physical vicinity what sort of encounter and strategies will be employed. So the visible literal world is going to affect combat setup. That's definitely new to BT; I'm reserving judgment until I see a good playthrough with all of that. =/
ZiN wrote: ↑September 18th, 2017, 12:38 am
Letting the player experiment with teleporting into suspicious areas on the map is very nice, as is letting them save travel time.
Yep I remember teleporting myself into unvisited enclosed areas of some maps in BT, only to find out they actually weren't used and I buried myself alive :P I recall at least a couple of times being stuck in anti-magic non-phdo map 'holes'. Oops. :lol:
So please no big flashing "cast ... spell here" icons, like in the video, but actual exploration challenges. Let the player go underwater (or viscous plane... yuck) without GILL and drown. (Or reach that switch with just a couple drowned chars...)
Yes I fear the meta-physical guide/tip/hint-cues on-screen are also a pull-in from *cough* "modern" gaming :P
For comparison, the classics only tips were based on what environment spell you had running at any one time, and the tips were entirely proportional to those.
IF the visual cues were tied to a party/environment spell, I could grok that - but please please
please no "arrows", or "glowing pads" in the general environment to guide the player towards next steps and actions for puzzles, not without logical explanation. :o
Ether wrote: ↑September 18th, 2017, 4:52 am
That said, the SP/HP regen largely existed in the originals, mainly once you got a Bardsword and could sing unlimited Bard songs to rejuvenate your party. Sure, it was a bit time consuming, but it was there.
Those staffs that the mages could find negated the SP management aspect. And of course, APAR often allowed a quick exit once you got it.
Yes, however your 'recharge time' was at the risk of additional encounters before being prepped. There was always an inter-combat concern with resources, even if every character could 'recharge' their abilities between battles. You had to decide how much resource to use during battle, considering how long it would take to get it back before the next potential battle, and how dangerous it might be. Even at super-high levels, resources were still not directly unlimited.