The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Announcements & media coverage pertaining to Bard's Tale IV. Only moderators & inXile can make new threads on this forum.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » February 14th, 2016, 5:50 pm

Sacred_Path wrote: "Guys, we just hired a famous musician for the soundtrack! Her music has absolutely nothing to do with the game. However, it sounds pretty!" I can see the reactions to THAT.
I'm not seeing the issue. Is it your hypothesis that the fact that Julie Fowlis was been contracted to produce Scottish Gaelic music for the game to give it a Gaelic character a major factor for why people backed the game on KS or through PayPal, and that they would be furiously disappointed if it turned out otherwise?

But, in any case, no current or previous commitment of inXile nor any current or previous piece of information released by inXile about the game changes my fundamental insistence that the game should be faithful to the high fantasy setting of the originals and not be turned into a quasi-historical fantasy. If it helps you understand any about where I am coming from, I am making two layers of arguments. First and foremost, I am challenging a number of things to which inXile already appears committed and asking them repeal those decisions in favor of ones that are more faithful to the original series. The second layer is the source of most the noise generated by this back and forth between you and me. The second layer of argument is to challenge what information they have released on technical or aesthetic grounds or its consistency. If I can show that what they have already presented is significantly flawed, then maybe I can get them to repeal it and start taking the first layer of argument more seriously.
Sacred_Path wrote: The fact that they spent additional funds on this shows their earnestness in creating a semi-historical setting.
Are the funds additional? (Her services are not listed as a stretch goal, incidentally.) And, who's to say that they wouldn't have sought out a decent folk musician or band for a high fantasy setting. Folk music tends to give the "old-timey" vibe often found in high fantasy settings.
Sacred_Path wrote: I'm not arguing that they didn't try to establish parallels to the Picts.
I'm not sure that there was much trying of any sort on their part. That is part of my problem with all this. Layer 2: If they are going to employ a professional writer, then they should put his talents to full use. (Layer 1: Of course, I would rather see them not spend much effort on the writing in the first place.)
Sacred_Path wrote: What I'm saying is that it would be somewhat in pure taste to create a fictional people in a fantasy game, and then slap a historical name on it, be it Celts, Teutons or Scythians. Not to mention that, from what I gather, such an approach would be even worse in your eyes (farther removed from the original games).
But, have they actually created a fictional people? Or have they simply recycled bits of real world history, maybe with some elements from Robert Jordan blended in for good measure, and then tried to apply a label which does almost nothing to disguise their borrowing from our world's history?
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by lefty1117 » February 14th, 2016, 7:16 pm

Some of you guys are worrying too much about this - hardly anything has been revealed. The gloom and doom is a bit premature, and comments like "I could have hacked that together in an afternoon" certainly aren't constructive. Here's hoping this doesn't turn into one of those communities that eat themselves.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Sacred_Path » February 15th, 2016, 9:25 am

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:I'm not seeing the issue. Is it your hypothesis that the fact that Julie Fowlis was been contracted to produce Scottish Gaelic music for the game to give it a Gaelic character a major factor for why people backed the game on KS or through PayPal, and that they would be furiously disappointed if it turned out otherwise?
No, the fury would be directed at the decision to cast a famous musician when their music has no ties to the game. After all, it's not run-of-the-mill, epic Jeremy Soule stuff. Her material has a very distinctive evocative vibe.
But, in any case, no current or previous commitment of inXile nor any current or previous piece of information released by inXile about the game changes my fundamental insistence that the game should be faithful to the high fantasy setting of the originals and not be turned into a quasi-historical fantasy. If it helps you understand any about where I am coming from, I am making two layers of arguments. First and foremost, I am challenging a number of things to which inXile already appears committed and asking them repeal those decisions in favor of ones that are more faithful to the original series. The second layer is the source of most the noise generated by this back and forth between you and me. The second layer of argument is to challenge what information they have released on technical or aesthetic grounds or its consistency. If I can show that what they have already presented is significantly flawed, then maybe I can get them to repeal it and start taking the first layer of argument more seriously.
Best of luck on that, I'm not really seeing anything "significantly flawed" about what they have shown so far, but as you said, that depends firstly on wether you like semi-historical fiction and secondly wether you wish for a revival of the 80's.
But, have they actually created a fictional people? Or have they simply recycled bits of real world history, maybe with some elements from Robert Jordan blended in for good measure, and then tried to apply a label which does almost nothing to disguise their borrowing from our world's history?
Yes, the things they have outlined in this update go far beyond what is actually known about Pictish culture, so it's absolutely not just recycled history stuff. In fact, if it wasn't for the term "Fichti", nothing apart from matriarchy (which has never been firmly established for the Picts) and them suffering under some blond invaders would point to the Picts.
I'm not sure that there was much trying of any sort on their part. That is part of my problem with all this. Layer 2: If they are going to employ a professional writer, then they should put his talents to full use. (Layer 1: Of course, I would rather see them not spend much effort on the writing in the first place.)
Here's something I don't get: there are a number of disgruntled 80's grognards who complain even about the quality of the writing, while saying that they don't care about the writing in this sort of game at all. So they point out flaws in the writing, not really hoping to improve the core vision of InXile, but simply to take potshots in the hope that the team will completely give up on their vision. :|

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » February 15th, 2016, 10:43 am

Sacred_Path wrote: No, the fury would be directed at the decision to cast a famous musician when their music has no ties to the game.
Still not seeing the issue.
But, have they actually created a fictional people? Or have they simply recycled bits of real world history, maybe with some elements from Robert Jordan blended in for good measure, and then tried to apply a label which does almost nothing to disguise their borrowing from our world's history?
Yes, the things they have outlined in this update go far beyond what is actually known about Pictish culture, so it's absolutely not just recycled history stuff. In fact, if it wasn't for the term "Fichti", nothing apart from matriarchy (which has never been firmly established for the Picts) and them suffering under some blond invaders would point to the Picts.
I didn't say it was just recycled history and went as far as to point out possible borrowings from Robert Jordan as well. The borrowing, whether from our history or an already-established fictional history, points to a lack of creative effort. This is part of the criticism of what has been presented thus far, regardless of anyone's agenda. Also, I don't believe anyone has made the claim that the Picts were matriarchal - there is, however, some evidence of matrilineal succession to their thrones - the correlation between females being power brokers of sorts is pretty clear. And there is some archaeological evidence that PIctish females may have participated in hunting and fighting, two traditionally male-dominated fields. The lore presented in KS update shows some Fichti females are fighters and war leaders.

But, I think you missed the most obvious connection between the PIcts and Fichti. Picti is name given to those people by the Romans - it literally means the Painted Ones. Guess what? Paragraph one of the "Culture of the Fichti" section in the KS update says, "[They are] known for painting themselves in woad...."
Here's something I don't get: there are a number of disgruntled 80's grognards who complain even about the quality of the writing, while saying that they don't care about the writing in this sort of game at all.
I can't speak for the others, but if I am one of the "disgruntled 80's grognards" to whom you refer, then it is not that I don't care but that I don't want. I would be content with a fairly simple background story, consistent with the original series; I neither want nor need anything elaborate, especially if it is going to turn the game into a historical high fantasy not consistent with its original character. All that said, if inXile is going to insist on having something elaborate, then I do care that the quality be high and that a real creative effort be shown by the professional writing staff.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Yokohamalama » February 15th, 2016, 12:24 pm

I kinda agree. Also not really interested in gaelic, irish, celtic, picts, trunk throwers or whatever lore. Actually I prefer exactly that "fantasy setting pulled out of the arse". It lets me disconnect easier from "this" world and jump into the "other" world. But with all these references to historic folks it makes me cringe quite a bit. Specifically cringeworthy because there seems to be an extra hard effort to integrate all these things into BT4.

Now to something else: that screenshot with green hills and scattered stones... most of the landscape in Skyrim looked like that (with the exception that it was brown hills with scattered stones). I hope that not the whole environment looks like that... like Skyrim 2.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Drool » February 15th, 2016, 12:30 pm

Sacred_Path wrote:No, the fury would be directed at the decision to cast a famous musician when their music has no ties to the game.
That kind of music worked for Lord of the Rings. Her music would be just fine in a Bard's Tale setting. Hell, I could see myself playing her soundtrack as background music while playing the original trilogy. Furthermore, they were going to pay someone to produce the music. Her music fits better than, say, Mark Morgan.
sear wrote:That was me. Right now we are in a state where a lot of cool stuff is being done but it's still too early to share. ;)
I get that, but could we please have a little something? That grid thing Brian tried to describe made no damn sense, and I'd rather have bloody-knuckle fights over mechanics than the music budget.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by thebruce » February 16th, 2016, 7:18 am

I'll second everything noblesse said.
Also, this isn't about "80's". This is about feel and esthetic for BT4 in a lore context - original high fantasy realm vs pseudo-historical fantasy, the latter of which tries to 'hide' its connections to the real world in a very simplistic way in order to appear as though it were something of a 'new' idea. =/

What Noblesse listed as wanting to see - I echo those sentiments. For one, PLEASE include Skara Brae in some manner (and I mean the BT Skara Brae we know and love, not the Orkey Skara Brae after which it's connected in name only)
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Roger Wilco » February 16th, 2016, 8:49 pm

Still very (sadly) underwhelmed by this project. I'll echo the 80's Grognard sentiment here.

Loved Wasteland 2 and what I've seen/played of Torment/Numenera, so I know you guys have it in you. I just don't see any "Bard's Tale" here. I hope I can begin to soon.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Crosmando » February 18th, 2016, 5:24 am

I like the Celtic/Gaelic theme, I mean Devil Whiskey actually takes place in prehistoric Orkney.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by ZiN » February 18th, 2016, 10:04 am

Crosmando wrote:I like the Celtic/Gaelic theme, I mean Devil Whiskey actually takes place in prehistoric Orkney.
Yup, this update definitely sounds good for Devil Whiskey 2. The thing is that Bard's Tale 1-3 takes place in... someplace different from the "world" described here...

I agree with _noblesse_, thebruce, Yokohamalama and Roger. Don't see any Bard's Tale here.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Lucius » February 18th, 2016, 6:45 pm

Don't see any Bard's Tale here.*
However, it's sounds very much like the original Kickstarter pitch. Is anyone really surprised at all? Are we going to get these comments every update even though the Kickstarter was crystal clear, at least with this. If anyone doesn't like this, why did you back this game? Did you not read the campaign and updates?
Kickstarter wrote:In both its music and visuals, The Bard’s Tale IV draws heavily from many elements of Scottish culture.
Kickstarter wrote:Speaking of the Trow, we’re looking to make some new additions to the roster of races based on the specific lore of The Bard’s Tale IV. The Trow is one such example of a mythological creature from Orkney Island folkloric tradition that we’re making available as a playable race.
Kickstarter wrote:A game set to beautiful Gaelic music
Anyone sensing a theme here? Bard's Tale or not, the game is going to be heavily influenced by Scottish culture. That has been clear since before the Kickstarter ended. Most of the people in this thread had discussions on it back then. And if you still backed you are either ok with it or at least got over it enough to part with money. But I guess didn't get over it enough to not bitch about it months later when it gets brought up? The Scottish stuff is done and set in stone and we've known that for awhile. Crying about it isn't going to change anything and honestly all it does is annoy fellow forum goers who aren't as passionate on this topic.

*Generic quote, it sums up several people's statements nicely.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Drool » February 18th, 2016, 10:23 pm

Lucius wrote:Crying about it isn't going to change anything
Or it might make them tone things down. Or at least change the names to be less blindingly obvious.
all it does is annoy fellow forum goers who aren't as passionate on this topic.
Yeah, we should probably stop forcing people to read forum threads :cry:
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Crosmando » February 19th, 2016, 12:35 am

We really need an update regarding the character/class system and combat mechanics.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by thebruce » February 19th, 2016, 6:17 am

Lucius wrote:However, it's sounds very much like the original Kickstarter pitch. Is anyone really surprised at all? Are we going to get these comments every update even though the Kickstarter was crystal clear, at least with this. If anyone doesn't like this, why did you back this game? Did you not read the campaign and updates?
I think our hope is that with every update, they've heard and listened and worked towards a change that in some manner helps to satisfy those of us who really want to see more Bard's Tale classic lore and context that brand new Scottish themes. So yep, probably with every update if nothing changes then there will be more complaining comments and incessant whining ;)
We backed the game knowing that the entire game was not set in stone, that what was presented looked great, we want a great game, and without people who love the classic Bard's Tale backing then a game could be produced that is of course BT in name only. So it's really a little bit of everything. I don't think anyone doubts inXile will put out an awesome game. So why would we back it? Plenty of non-BT fans backed it just because it was inXile. So we have a great mix of backers, insights, preferences, experience... the question is who inXile listens to more (or anyone at all). And the only way we know?
Each update.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by kilobug » February 19th, 2016, 6:45 am

It's definitely true the backers of BT4 are not uniform - probably less so (but I don't have any hard data) than WL2/TTON backers. For myself, I never played the original ones (will give a try to the remastered versions), I backed mostly because of loyalty/trust to inXile, but also because I did like the celtic themes.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Crosmando » February 19th, 2016, 7:38 am

Drool wrote:
Lucius wrote:Crying about it isn't going to change anything
Or it might make them tone things down. Or at least change the names to be less blindingly obvious.
all it does is annoy fellow forum goers who aren't as passionate on this topic.
Yeah, we should probably stop forcing people to read forum threads :cry:
So the Celtic/Scot theme is so terrible, but potentially having third-person combat is not? Both cosmetic things, only one cart you seem to be pushing. Hmmmmm.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » February 19th, 2016, 5:57 pm

Lucius wrote:
Don't see any Bard's Tale here.*
However, it's sounds very much like the original Kickstarter pitch. Is anyone really surprised at all? Are we going to get these comments every update even though the Kickstarter was crystal clear, at least with this. If anyone doesn't like this, why did you back this game? Did you not read the campaign and updates?
I read much of the information on KS before backing and disagreed with much of the direction back then, but held on to the hope that I could effect change. Am still holding on to that hope. Not much surprised by what I'm seeing - just don't like what I'm seeing and letting them know about.
thebruce wrote: I think our hope is that with every update, they've heard and listened and worked towards a change that in some manner helps to satisfy those of us who really want to see more Bard's Tale classic lore and context that brand new Scottish themes. So yep, probably with every update if nothing changes then there will be more complaining comments and incessant whining ;)
Yep.

Also, there is a side benefit to all of this discussion. It distills the essence of the original series into something which could be actionable by another developer, if inXile doesn't want to listen. Obviously, another developer could not use the "Bard's Tale" name, but it does present the opportunity to create a true spiritual successor with clear design direction, if inXile won't.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by Drool » February 19th, 2016, 11:14 pm

Crosmando wrote:So the Celtic/Scot theme is so terrible, but potentially having third-person combat is not? Both cosmetic things, only one cart you seem to be pushing. Hmmmmm.
We've gotten specifics on the theme, not on the combat. Hard to debate a ghost.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by cyseal » March 13th, 2016, 11:39 am

When will Torment be content complete, will be majority of the team transfered to BT4?
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 27: NOLA Office Update, Production Status, and the Fichti

Post by sear » March 13th, 2016, 2:53 pm

cyseal wrote:When will Torment be content complete, will majority of the team transfering to BT4?
The Bard's Tale IV is primarily being developed by a new team in the new NOLA office, though several members of the team have moved from our Newport HQ to NOLA (a few more are still planning on making the move), and we do have people working on the game in Newport as well. However, that doesn't necessarily mean the entire team in Newport will be switching to Bard's Tale once Torment is done.

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