The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Announcements & media coverage pertaining to Bard's Tale IV. Only moderators & inXile can make new threads on this forum.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 15th, 2015, 11:09 am

Well, the integrated DOS Box seems nice as it prevents you from having to muck around with it.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
sear
Developer
Posts: 2500
Joined: March 21st, 2012, 8:30 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by sear » October 15th, 2015, 12:53 pm

DOSBox was our best option for a variety of reasons - cross-platform support, free and open source, easy in setting it up for you guys, and keeping character exporting/importing consistent. Other versions of the game may be "better" from some perspectives, but we may not have the legal rights to (we do for the DOS versions of BT1-3), there are concerns about the emulators we'd need to use, we don't want to mix-and-match different versions of the games to break the character transfer features, and so on.

For the "ultimate" version, that's what we have the remaster for. ;)

cparker94
Novice
Posts: 38
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 8:19 pm

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by cparker94 » October 15th, 2015, 1:11 pm

And that's what I want! The Ultimate Bard's Tale collection! Can't wait for the remastered version! Someone tell Burger to hurry back from Hawaii. She's got work to do!! :P

Craig from Texas

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 897
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by thebruce » October 15th, 2015, 6:47 pm

Image
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 16th, 2015, 12:35 pm

Now that the classic is easily available, it would be great if everyone involved in pre-production would play all three games. Doesn't have to be to completion, but an hour or so each game. At times, WL2 feels like the people making it were more familiar with Fallout than Wasteland. Hopefully, if the writers and designers spend some time with the original trilogy, we'll get a faithful sequel.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5012
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Crosmando » October 16th, 2015, 11:47 pm

What?! They should be playing them through MULTIPLE TIMES, just to make sure they well and truly understand them, before they try to design a sequel. An hour or so?! Are you mad.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 17th, 2015, 12:09 pm

Frankly, I don't need them to know the games forward and backwards. I just need them to have a proper feel for the games. You can learn the mechanics pretty quickly which is sufficient for the systems design. The writers should probably read and reread the games' scripts, though.

Sure, I'd love them to make one day a week nothing but playing one of the originals, there's not really time for that. I just want them to have a firm grasp of the originals. Unlike WL2 which felt more like they just had a firm grasp of Fallout.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

cparker94
Novice
Posts: 38
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 8:19 pm

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by cparker94 » October 17th, 2015, 6:24 pm

If you are expecting Bard's Tale IV to be anything like the original ones, you will be disappointed. This game will not be similar to it as one can see from the in-engine video. I know there are a faithful group of us that would like nothing more than a similar game with more places to explore, more monsters, more weapons, more treasures, and more magic mouth riddles. But that can't happen because we are in the minority and BTIV has to cater to today's gamer in order to succeed unfortunately. Just like how Wasteland 2 has succeeded.

Craig from Texas

User avatar
ZiN
Explorer
Posts: 323
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by ZiN » October 18th, 2015, 6:36 am

Drool wrote:Frankly, I don't need them to know the games forward and backwards. I just need them to have a proper feel for the games. You can learn the mechanics pretty quickly which is sufficient for the systems design. The writers should probably read and reread the games' scripts, though.

Sure, I'd love them to make one day a week nothing but playing one of the originals, there's not really time for that. I just want them to have a firm grasp of the originals. Unlike WL2 which felt more like they just had a firm grasp of Fallout.
I second this, they should do their homework at least. Especially the writers' part, since they seem to be having no idea about the world of BT, from what i've read so far. Also some consulting with Michael Cranford and Burger Becky wouldn't hurt either.

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 18th, 2015, 11:53 am

cparker94 wrote:But that can't happen because we are in the minority and BTIV has to cater to today's gamer in order to succeed unfortunately.
Except that it already has succeeded. inXile has already been paid for the game. Mass market appeal is certainly a bonus, and a source of profit, but they don't need to appeal to the masses in order to recoup production costs.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5012
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Crosmando » October 18th, 2015, 7:21 pm

Eh, BT4 will be very different from the original trilogy, I think everyone knows this. I just hope we get a fun fpp turn-based blobber, that's all. I mean the genre isn't exactly packed lately, the only "blobbers" of decent budget we've seen in recent years are Might & Magic X and Legend of Grimrock 1/2, the rest have been very low-budget affairs.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 19th, 2015, 12:15 pm

Yes, it will. I'm not fighting for 100% here, I'm just trying to clutch every percent I can. If that means making it 60% similar instead of 59% similar, then so be it.

Mostly, I want to avoid the mistakes of WL2 where they dumped MSPE, learn-by-doing, and attributes affecting skills.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

tarasis
Initiate
Posts: 21
Joined: April 17th, 2012, 11:54 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by tarasis » October 21st, 2015, 1:55 am

Awesome, though yes I'd have preferred the Amiga versions over the Dos versions :)

Still I look forward to having a play while we wait for the remastered versions.

Thank you.

User avatar
Themadcow
Scholar
Posts: 167
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 1:46 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Themadcow » October 21st, 2015, 3:18 am

I didn't notice a poll anywhere about people's favourite Bards Tale game. Was there one?

Much as I'd like to think that everyone on the team has played BT already (emulated versions of 1-3 have been available some time as part of the ARPG Bards Tale game), my gut feeling is that BT1 was the best 'experience' of the three games.

It's more focused in progression thanks to the City setting, less annoying range mechanics (which drag out combat) and better random combat frequency. BT2 felt kinda empty, while BT3 had lots of great ideas let down by frustrating mechanics. In the same way that Dragon Age: Origins is the inspiration I'd want to draw on the for the next game in that series (rather than the bland Dynasty Warriors combat in 2, or the MMO grind of 3) I'd hope that BT1 is the 'feel' they're trying to invoke even if modern expectations are for something grander.

EDIT: lots of sequels fail to capture the magic of earlier games in the series due to overcomplication of mechanics or a need to do things 'bigger' - Burnout 2 over later games, Super Mario Kart over later versions, Fallout 1, Final Fantasy VII etc.
~~~ CPC's - Getting in the way of fun gameplay since 1998 ~~~

_noblesse_oblige_
Explorer
Posts: 441
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » October 22nd, 2015, 8:10 pm

Themadcow wrote: my gut feeling is that BT1 was the best 'experience' of the three games.

It's more focused in progression thanks to the City setting, less annoying range mechanics (which drag out combat) and better random combat frequency. BT2 felt kinda empty, while BT3 had lots of great ideas let down by frustrating mechanics. In the same way that Dragon Age: Origins is the inspiration I'd want to draw on the for the next game in that series (rather than the bland Dynasty Warriors combat in 2, or the MMO grind of 3) I'd hope that BT1 is the 'feel' they're trying to invoke even if modern expectations are for something grander.
I personally want to see BT1 be the model upon which they build. From what I've seen, others in the "nostalgist" camp seem to be divided into those who wish to see BT3 be the foundation and those who wish to see BT1 be the foundation.

My objection to the range mechanics is that they reduce the abstraction of the combat, which is to me one of the hallmarks of the original BT experience. I think it is harder to argue against the 2D combat layout proposed for BT4, if you're willing to accept the 1D combat layout in the latter of the original games. Yes, range can be used to balance spells, but there are other ways to balance them for a more abstract battlefield.

Also, I'm not a fan of the BT3 temporal manipulation and dimension hopping. An epic game can be made without resorting to such overpowered mechanics and story lines.

So, in short, I'm with you. BT1 has the right feel for me and I would like to see that recaptured.
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 23rd, 2015, 12:14 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:My objection to the range mechanics is that they reduce the abstraction of the combat, which is to me one of the hallmarks of the original BT experience.
Mildly, yes, but on the other hand, BT1's spell balance was all over the map due to the lack of range.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

User avatar
ZiN
Explorer
Posts: 323
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by ZiN » October 25th, 2015, 4:50 am

With respect, i actually think BT1 is my least favourite game from the trilogy. Of course i still like it very much, but the changes and additions in the later games were all positive to me.

- 7 characters
- The reworked combat mechanic, with the implemented range system, changed the flow of combat quite a bit and not for the worse, in my opinion.
- The new spells and mage schools are also excellent, having ranges on spells and different reach of all kinds of attacks, helped to make the combat more interesting and fun for me.
- The creature list has been greatly improved, and i decidedly like BT3's sometimes rather weird monsters. I don't mind fighting robots, dinosaurs, sharks and ninjas, not to mention Nefastmasters, with spells & swords. Especially if their art direction and representation has that certain, colourful, old-school vibe to it. I was a rather big Wiz & MM player also.
- Additional useful items and interaction.
- More open world and dimension hopping while not necessary, was an interesting idea, that was presented well in 2 and especially 3. Each dimension had it's unique theme and quirks, nicely represented by the maps, events and creatures.

It's interesting that both Themadcow and _noblesse_oblige_ find these changes and additions detracting from the experience. The more i think about it, the more i think BT3 is actually the best game of the three, and that Burger Heineman did a great job at further improving Cranford's original, already excellent formula. I think Drool feels the same way about this, right? On the other hand, i agree with our old-schoolers, that changing the original formula too much can easily ruin the whole experience (even for an otherwise decent game, see WL2), for anyone who played and liked the classics.

I just hope that they won't try too hard, with the Scottish lore, Scottish folk music, "deepdark story", movie-like scripts, wordy NPCs, with their life-stories, etc. What is (and has been) happening to Fallout is already sad enough...

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8789
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Drool » October 25th, 2015, 12:14 pm

ZiN wrote:I think Drool feels the same way about this, right?
I've certainly logged the most hours on 3, yes. It was also the first one I was exposed to (that Christmas, my brother got BT3 and I got Wasteland; C64 natually). I would later go back and get a copy of 1 to play, but going from 3 to 1 was a pretty jarring experience, especially losing the character slot, losing the save mechanic, and frankly, 1 was far more of an early-game meat-grinder than 3 was. Sure, it's possible to party wipe walking to Skara Brae in 3, but it's much less likely, while 1 will gladly slaughter your whole party one step out of the guild.

I also think 3 has a much richer story than 1 did. 1 had its memorable set pieces, but it was basically just "follow the path to kill the big bad", while 3 showed you the impact of Tarjan's rage across reality. And that outpost journal in Gelidia is just heart breaking.

As for 2... well... it's the forgotten middle child, I guess. I've logged maybe 20 minutes playing it. It never left much of an impression. Once the remasters come out, I'll play through all three, but until then... meh.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

_noblesse_oblige_
Explorer
Posts: 441
Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » October 25th, 2015, 12:18 pm

ZiN wrote: - 7 characters
I wouldn't object to 7 PCs in the new game. Personally, I think 6+1 (like BT1) or 6+2 feel better. Anything less than 6 PCs doesn't really feel like BT. Anything more than 6 and I start to wonder if we are headed towards everyone making the same "Swiss Army knife" party, versatile enough for every situation, rather than having to make party design choices with real sacrifices.
ZiN wrote: - More open world and dimension hopping while not necessary, was an interesting idea, that was presented well in 2 and especially 3. Each dimension had it's unique theme and quirks, nicely represented by the maps, events and creatures.
I'm not against having an open world, but I did like the "comfy" feel of being in a snowed-in town.
ZiN wrote: I just hope that they won't try too hard, with the Scottish lore, Scottish folk music, "deepdark story", movie-like scripts, wordy NPCs, with their life-stories, etc. What is (and has been) happening to Fallout is already sad enough...
Absolutely agreed. Even though you and Drool may be in the BT3 camp, I think we all have more about which to agree than to disagree. I will still be happy if we end up with something closer to BT3 than BT1 rather than if we end up with the product that they are currently projected to make.
cmibl<enter>

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5012
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: The Bard's Tale Classic Trilogy Emulated is Now Available!

Post by Crosmando » October 26th, 2015, 2:33 am

I agree with the last point too. I think what's important is recognizing that dungeon crawling RPG's are "simple", not simple in terms of mechanics but simple in terms of the base desires they satisfy. Killing monsters (especially with gory death animations), looting their stuff and getting richer (accumulation of wealth), getting XP and leveling up (increasing your power). Of course BT4 needs other things too; clever non-linear level design, complex character system with lots of customization, spells and abilities, etc. But fundamentally I think if the basic combat feels good and fun, it will carry the rest of the game. Fallout had very simple combat, but those gory death animations just never got old. Also a good combat music track is essential, you'll be in combat a lot.

As above said, don't "try too hard", don't make it feel like BT4 is "looking down" on the dungeon crawler genre and apologizing, make it feel like it's embracing it and made by people who love that genre.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests