Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 3rd, 2018, 6:10 am

See, trend I can understand. There's a difference between positive popularity of something, and negative dislike because it's 'obsolete'. If it's not trending that doesn't mean it's not still applicable, usable, feasible, reasonable... so I can at least grok that grid-based dungeon crawlers were "trendy" in the 80's. But the gameplay mechanic is most definitely not out-dated, as (once again) demonstrated by the horders of various grid-style games, digital and board, that still exist today in the modern gaming world. It's just not "trendy".
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Crosmando » July 5th, 2018, 2:29 am

I just finished Pillars of Eternity 2 and I must say, it is kinda weird that that game actually has more character/s customization than BT4 will - you create your main character, and within 10 minutes (probably a matter of minutes if you move quickly) you find a tavern and are able to create the remaining 4 characters completely from scratch, and this is a very much story-driven RPG. What are you doing InXile.
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Lix » July 5th, 2018, 5:22 am

Crosmando wrote:
July 5th, 2018, 2:29 am
I just finished Pillars of Eternity 2 and I must say, it is kinda weird that that game actually has more character/s customization than BT4 will - you create your main character, and within 10 minutes (probably a matter of minutes if you move quickly) you find a tavern and are able to create the remaining 4 characters completely from scratch, and this is a very much story-driven RPG. What are you doing InXile.
Pillars 2 was apparently a flop, so maybe they're doing exactly the right thing.

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 5th, 2018, 6:50 am

Wait, so are you implying that any game that lets you create your main character the rest of the your party will be a flop?
Cuz maybe it was a flop for other reasons.
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Lix » July 5th, 2018, 8:19 am

PoE2 took an approach that was aimed at the "core audience", and the core audience was either smaller than expected or simply not that interested in the game. BT4 is making different design decisions to appeal to a different audience.

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Gizmo » July 5th, 2018, 10:22 am

Which shouldn't be done with a financed title, and a sequel.

__________
Of course there is also the possibility that the majority gamer audience is clueless, and ignores a title; creating a flop; like a burglar who discards a platinum watch, because it isn't real gold. This is damaging our future potential for getting games like these. :evil:

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by balinor » July 5th, 2018, 10:37 am

Lix wrote:
July 5th, 2018, 8:19 am
PoE2 took an approach that was aimed at the "core audience", and the core audience was either smaller than expected or simply not that interested in the game. BT4 is making different design decisions to appeal to a different audience.
The problem here is that Inxile financed BT4 by selling an idea of a sequel to BT1,2 and 3 to a core audience and then went in a completely different direction. I don't think it is going to pan out the way they expect it to.

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Crosmando » July 7th, 2018, 2:07 am

Lix wrote:
July 5th, 2018, 8:19 am
PoE2 took an approach that was aimed at the "core audience", and the core audience was either smaller than expected or simply not that interested in the game. BT4 is making different design decisions to appeal to a different audience.
You cannot be serious, PoE2 has heaps of design decisions obviously aimed at non-core audience - reducing party size to 5, removing traditional resource management (camp supplies), lowering the difficulty from PoE1 dramatically, (optional) level scaling, and so on.

I think the real reason for PoE2 not doing as well the first game is probably because PoE1 was riding high on the Kickstarter excitement of the moment and many non-core gamers were curious about it (and the good graphics helped pull them in), but after they actually played it they realized they didn't like these type of RPGs, and thus didn't buy the sequel. CRPGs have always had a niche audience, InXile themselves are only now slowly starting to realize this.
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2018, 12:38 pm

PC Gamer:

"a proper dungeon crawler with a creative combat system that doesn't feel beholden to the past"
*sigh*
Is it time for us to give up on that point? Combat mechanics are different, not "modern", because the same combat mechanics "of olde" can absolutely exist today; the changes aren't "updated", they are just very different conceptually. Alas, this is the demographic BT4 is geared towards. 'Different' is 'outdated'. Well at least it's a positive opinion of the combat mechanic.


"the ability to move freely around without a grid, with characters to talk to and ample voice acting, helps decouple The Bard's Tale 4 from dungeon crawling tradition"

I can live with "tradition"... but... it's a sequel. Tradition is paramount!


"These characters sub in for the typical dungeon crawler character creation process, so you won't be buried in stats menus for your first half hour."

Yep, this is the demographic for whom BT1-3 is not a game geared towards. But these are the reviewers that will produce positive reviews. (not that I'm insintuating that there's some kind of malplay going on here just to get ratings; good reviews is good - but why do we see a vast majority of die-hard 1-3 fans not releasing praise reviews for its merit as a sequel?)


"So far I love this combat system, which will probably be the most controversial element of The Bard's Tale 4's design. It's a far cry from the standard RPG menu of attack/defend/magic/item, with each character proceeding in turn."

Well at least we agree on the controversial aspect :D though I'm not sure if that'll be the "most" controversial. But up there, yeah.


"The first few puzzles I encountered were pitifully easy, but were just introducing concepts that would quickly get much more complex and much more fun."

I do hope there's an in-lore reasonable explanation for 'puzzles' all over the place. Doors are typically locked with keys, yes? So why are there puzzly tricks to opening them now? I hope that's explained...


"You can see where inXile had to stretch its budget: an opening cutscene told via illustrations feels like a placeholder animatic, the lighting's dull, and some character models are, well, not beautiful."

Haven't had a chance to jump in yet (work and all), but I hope this isn't a slam against 2D artwork vs 3D graphics. There's absolutely nothing wrong with beautifully illustrated/animated non-3D cutscenes if the story is told well. Again, this seems to indicate a "modern" gaming perspective from someone who almost expects everything to be high-res top-notch 3D qraphics. =/


"There have been puzzles that feel trite—I'm sorry to report you'll be pushing around plenty of blocks..."

Literal block pushing in Bard's Tale? :(


"and grid movement will be too in the final game, for all you traditionalists out there"

Glad the sentiment is that it'll be there to assuage our old-school nostalgic entitlement complex... hmph.


I know I'm coming off bitter... There are bunch of good points in the PC Gamer article, and I'm being critical of the author's base opinion as well as some game points. But I believe most of this is, as usual, coming from a "Bard's Tale" brand perspective, not general gaming quality. I still look forward to playing this (assuming I can, at the game's lowest graphic settings :P)

If I can, maybe my first-hand experience will improve my opinion so far... but as of right now, I'm trying not to be discouraged. I am glad the time span for the author's comments is a few hours for just the tutorial and learning phase. That's promising.
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2018, 12:46 pm

PCGamesN:

"It’s been 30 years since The Bard’s Tale III, but developer inXile still wishes the fourth installment to feel as if it has made the most of three decades worth of innovation. As such, the game has a modern, slick UI, full voice acting that’s keen on the rolling Rs of the Scottish Highlands, and a world that is freely explored without being restricted to movement tiles."

Yes! Up until that bold... whyyyyyy do people NOT understand that grid-based environments and navigation are not out-of-date relics from the past, and that free movement is not an "innovation"? C'mon son!


"The Roman numerals suffixed to the game’s title suggests that The Bard’s Tale IV is a game for those previously invested in the series. But that’s not true at all; despite its throwbacks and easter eggs, this is a thoroughly modern game designed for the world of today. Its budget, scale, and ambition means that it falls into an odd mid-point between the vastness of triple-A behemoths like Skyrim and stripped-back indies like Darkest Dungeon. That positioning could make it awkward for fans of either side of that point to settle into."

Now THERE is an honest comment I can get behind (other than potential implications of using the term "modern" - in many aspects, yes, but which, that's a different discussion) -- Moreso however, recognition that it's such a vast departure from the classics that it's effectively its own game.
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Zombra » July 12th, 2018, 12:55 pm

First off, great commentary thebruce.

I just have one tiny thing I feel like replying to:
thebruce wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 12:38 pm
I do hope there's an in-lore reasonable explanation for 'puzzles' all over the place. Doors are typically locked with keys, yes? So why are there puzzly tricks to opening them now? I hope that's explained...
I wouldn't hold my breath for this. Blobbers have never made a hell of a lot of sense, have they? Some guy lives in a tower and he wanted to keep people out, but he's weird and wanted to make puzzles and elaborate deathtraps instead of just locking the door because this is the world we live in.

Makes me think of Resident Evil. Oh, the police chief built a labyrinth under the station opened by moving large chess pieces in a certain configuration and putting blue and red gems in the eye sockets of wall carvings? Oh. OK!
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2018, 12:59 pm

Blobbers have never made a hell of a lot of sense, have they? Some guy lives in a tower and he wanted to keep people out, but he's weird and wanted to make puzzles and elaborate deathtraps instead of just locking the door because this is the world we live in.
At least that's an explanation :) I'd rather have a senile old hermit lopping puzzle tasks on every door out of paranoia than having doors that require more than a handle-turn to open reducing practicality for no reason.


On another note, I'll concede, sometimes it's hard to tell when the term "modern" is being used as descriptive (as in recent games) vs prescriptive (as in concepts used in recent games with the implication that they are improvements of prior iterations). For example, a reference to "modern RPGs" may merely be pointing out recent games for the purpose of discussion, not necessarily implying that such recent games are "newer and improved" over the older ones.
It's a dangerous word in the context of a 30 years old sequel ;P lol
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Zombra » July 12th, 2018, 1:04 pm

thebruce wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 12:59 pm
Blobbers have never made a hell of a lot of sense, have they? Some guy lives in a tower and he wanted to keep people out, but he's weird and wanted to make puzzles and elaborate deathtraps instead of just locking the door because this is the world we live in.
At least that's an explanation :) I'd rather have a senile old hermit lopping puzzle tasks on every door out of paranoia than having doors that require more than a handle-turn to open reducing practicality for no reason.
An explanation, even a handwaving one, wouldn't hurt, to be sure; but I don't honestly expect it out of most RPGs, particularly not a dungeon crawler. I just assume that every dungeon has guys in it who want to make breaking & entering hard. The way they do it is sometimes farfetched, but the motive is apparent.

Now if there are death traps at the downtown library or on the way to the tavern, that would require some explanation :)
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2018, 1:07 pm

enh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter of random puzzles in places for no reason whatsoever ;) (I don't expect that to be the case in BT4, but I hope that I'm not wrong in that expectation)
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Gizmo » July 12th, 2018, 5:37 pm

thebruce wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 1:07 pm
enh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter of random puzzles in places for no reason whatsoever ;) (I don't expect that to be the case in BT4, but I hope that I'm not wrong in that expectation)
A puzzle lock is a way to have a conventional door take a remembered password—the solution. It would keep out the casual snooper; works best if they assume that the typical visitor hasn't the mental capacity to figure it out. In context, imagine the typical visitor to be any one of the Monty Python characters in the Holy Grail.

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by thebruce » July 12th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Again, that's a reason :) I like if there's a reason why say the owners of the property with the puzzle doors decided to put puzzles on their doors instead of the age old norm of door handles and locks. :P
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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Gizmo » July 12th, 2018, 6:54 pm

thebruce wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 6:07 pm
Again, that's a reason :) I like if there's a reason why say the owners of the property with the puzzle doors decided to put puzzles on their doors instead of the age old norm of door handles and locks. :P
I did it. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjBnxW ... u.be&t=38s
*Takes 20 moves minimum (AFAIK)—21 moves if you count adding the missing tile to the lock, to open the secret door inside the room.

___________

Another reason to use puzzles instead of turn-key locks, is to test the acumen (or worthiness?) of the one attempting to enter.

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by mercy » July 14th, 2018, 3:13 am

Regards the recently released beta gameplay video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMuICwnmyKY

What a heap of junk SHT!! The rumormongering fonts are okay, then as you get closer to NPCs the fonts are getting smaller?! When partying up the party dialogue fonts get microscopic and that super tiny font under golden lettered "hard times in skara brae" . HAHAHAHA, what a botched trainwreck of a game! 20 lashes for the stupid inXile UI designers for botching up the UI font sizes!

The much better looking remasters can't come soon enough!!

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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Post by Drool » July 14th, 2018, 9:19 am

thebruce wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 12:46 pm
Yes! Up until that bold... whyyyyyy do people NOT understand that grid-based environments and navigation are not out-of-date relics from the past, and that free movement is not an "innovation"? C'mon son!
I'm wagering most "online games journalists" are under 30. And they probably grew up with console games, not PC (or pre-PC). To them, these things are relics of the past, but they didn't grow up with them. Couple that with the fact that a depressing number of "online games journalists" are really, really bad at games, well, the rest becomes clear.
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