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Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 9:24 am
by Zombra
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 8:42 am
Did you watch the MT trailer? The game looks like a pseudo-comedy more akin to BT 2004 or something, with that comical little imp's dialogue. Not a good sign if BT4 is going to have the same sensibilities.
Yeah, that ship already sailed with the bickering goblins in the gameplay preview. That has nothing to do with the existence of spinoffs.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
by Crosmando
Zombra wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:24 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 8:42 am
Did you watch the MT trailer? The game looks like a pseudo-comedy more akin to BT 2004 or something, with that comical little imp's dialogue. Not a good sign if BT4 is going to have the same sensibilities.
Yeah, that ship already sailed with the bickering goblins in the gameplay preview.
That just seems to be just how the goblins naturally behave, while the trailer is about the overall tone.
That has nothing to do with the existence of spinoffs.
I'm all for the existance of spinoffs if there's even a marginal chance that fans of the original series would be interested in said spinoff. Want to make a guess as to how many BT4 backers/fans are interested in MT or even own a VR headset for that matter?

Come on, lets call a spade a spade, this is a money-grab (not that I'm against money-grabs if what their funding is good). This spinoff exists because the nascent VR audience is desperate for any games they can get their hands on.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 10:46 am
by Zombra
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
That just seems to be just how the goblins naturally behave, while the trailer is about the overall tone.
... I don't see any significant difference in tone between anything we've seen for BT4 and MT. The implication that MT's influence is ruining BT4's "faithful to the classics" tone is silly.
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
I'm all for the existance of spinoffs if there's even a marginal chance that fans of the original series would be interested in said spinoff. Want to make a guess as to how many BT4 backers/fans are interested in MT or even own a VR headset for that matter?
I guess there may be a few. What's the problem? They could make a Bard's Tale brand post hole digger for all I care. I wouldn't buy one, but what exactly is wrong with it?

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 11:01 am
by Gizmo
Zombra wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 10:46 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
...Want to make a guess as to how many BT4 backers/fans are interested in MT or even own a VR headset for that matter?
I guess there may be a few. What's the problem? They could make a Bard's Tale brand post hole digger for all I care. I wouldn't buy one, but what exactly is wrong with it?
I read Crosmando's post as a rhetorical question; one implying scant few (if any). I'm interested in whether I was correct.

** :lol: On Bethsoft's forums, I was formally forbidden by moderator from posting any rhetorical questions.
(I don't think they would of enforced it; but I tried not to test.)

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 11:11 am
by Crosmando
Zombra wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 10:46 am
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
That just seems to be just how the goblins naturally behave, while the trailer is about the overall tone.
... I don't see any significant difference in tone between anything we've seen for BT4 and MT. The implication that MT's influence is ruining BT4's "faithful to the classics" tone is silly.
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am
I'm all for the existance of spinoffs if there's even a marginal chance that fans of the original series would be interested in said spinoff. Want to make a guess as to how many BT4 backers/fans are interested in MT or even own a VR headset for that matter?
I guess there may be a few. What's the problem? They could make a Bard's Tale brand post hole digger for all I care. I wouldn't buy one, but what exactly is wrong with it?
No problem, because this just seems to be a stopgap to fund BT4. But in general spinoffs can damage or taint the brand (like Fallout:BoS for example), the 2004 Bard's Tale took place in a different universe so it was largely immune to that.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 11:15 am
by Gizmo
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 11:11 am
But in general spinoffs can damage or taint the brand (like Fallout:BoS for example)...
...Like FO3 and FO4 for example. :evil:

**Fallout:Tactics did have the best version of the combat engine—though instead of it, they used that awful 'continuous turn' mode as the default. Image

*** When I first saw FO3, it seemed like a spinoff of Fallout:BOS.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 12:11 pm
by Zombra
Crosmando wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 11:11 am
In general spinoffs can damage or taint the brand.
Definitely true

Image

but they can also enrich and elevate a franchise.

Image

Image

Image

Spinoffs are not inherently a bad idea; like with everything else in gaming, it's down to whether it's done well. So far, I see no reason to think that MT will do any more damage to the BT series than has already been done.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 7th, 2017, 1:27 pm
by Gizmo
You know... In a loose (and an also not so loose way), Portal seemed to be a spin-off of 3DRealms' title Prey—sans-shooting. Spin-off isn't the best term, nor exactly accurate. 3DRealms had a running demo of Prey in 1998, and they publicly released several development videos of it. The main thing it was showing off was its portal system; one wonders...

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 10th, 2017, 12:45 am
by Crosmando
Is Portal actually a spinoff though? I thought it took place in a different universe than Half-Life.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: June 10th, 2017, 9:02 am
by Zombra
Crosmando wrote:
June 10th, 2017, 12:45 am
Is Portal actually a spinoff though? I thought it took place in a different universe than Half-Life.
It's a spinoff! Several references to Black Mesa throughout the game.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 9:35 am
by phimseto
Today in PC Gamer: a "first look" at The Bard's Tale IV.

http://www.pcgamer.com/bards-tale-4-fir ... n-crawler/

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 9:41 am
by Infinitron
phimseto wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 9:35 am
Today in PC Gamer: a "first look" at The Bard's Tale IV.

http://www.pcgamer.com/bards-tale-4-fir ... n-crawler/
Hey Paul, is there going to be a Kickstarter update today?

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 9:48 am
by phimseto
Infinitron wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 9:41 am
phimseto wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 9:35 am
Today in PC Gamer: a "first look" at The Bard's Tale IV.

http://www.pcgamer.com/bards-tale-4-fir ... n-crawler/
Hey Paul, is there going to be a Kickstarter update today?
Hi Infinitron, no. Bard's Tale IV backer updates are usually around mid-month, so either later next week or the week after.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 10:17 am
by thebruce
I like.

I'm definitely getting sold on the 'world', the exploration and graphics (love the hut screenshot). I'm not worried about the maps not "looking" grid-based, as long as it's easy to tell (logically) where you can and can't go (ie, no 'invisible barriers', unless of course it is an in-game invisible wall of some sort :P). BT3 had trees - they don't "look" like a grid, they were just placed on grid squares :) That's all fine.

Combat though... I'm still really hesitant about the significant alterations to the battle process and strategies. I'd really like to see a normal execution of an average battle to see how the mechanics flow. It sounds like much of the character advancement is more contained within a bubble of various abilities you can gain rather than the vertical growth of stats, and that's a significant departure.

The author seems very very pleased and excited about the changes. I'd love to know if he played (and loved) the classics or if he's biased in the sense that he never really enjoyed that genre in the first place.

But anyway, that's a great article. It did, overall, build some excitement in me :)

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 10:21 am
by thebruce
And this "Tarjan, the villainous Mad God from The Bard's Tale of old, has sacked the Einarr Isles and holed up in the throne room of Castle Castle Hangskall. The King has asked you to retake it, and the ghost of a former castle worker clues you in that a key you need was dragged off to the torture chamber in the pocket of another unlucky soul. We set out to go find it."

*giddy*

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 10:27 am
by _noblesse_oblige_
phimseto wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 9:35 am
Today in PC Gamer: a "first look" at The Bard's Tale IV.

http://www.pcgamer.com/bards-tale-4-fir ... n-crawler/
So...
  • Three types of damage: physical, mental, and true. How does this relate to the hit points concept of the original series?
  • Puzzle weapons are still going to be a thing. Do we have to put in a puzzle piece or perform a special action every time we want to use these weapons?
  • Opportunity points are used to distribute action in combat. Why? What was wrong with the old system, found in the originals?
  • Cooldowns are still going to be a thing. Why? What was wrong with the old system, found in the originals?
  • Focus is still going to be a thing. Why? What was wrong with the old system, found in the originals?
  • Combat is going to be a mental sink that diverts from exploration and puzzle-solving. The article also mentioned that the puzzles felt "gamey".
  • The article claims that Bard's Tale has "long borrowed names from Scotland", but doesn't list any besides Skara Brae. Where is the list of other names borrowed from Scotland?
  • Another reference to the Baed and no reference to the Daels. I guess the name change is official now? Still not sure why we need all these various human tribes, some of which are tied very closely to real world lore. Are we still going to be able to recruit Half-Orc or Hobbit/Halfling adventurers for our parties?
  • NPC conversation system. Aside from shopkeeper interfaces, like what were had for Garth and Roscoe, I don't see the necessity of incorporating such as system in the successor to the Bard's Tale series. What motivated its inclusion? Just as a feeder for side quests?

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 10:33 am
by thebruce
And BTW...

"The Bard's Tale 4 is ... expanding on the lore surrounding the city of Skara Brae and the world of Caith, which was never fleshed out in the original trilogy."

Caith never existed in the original trilogy.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 1:15 pm
by Drool
thebruce wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 10:17 am
I like.
I do not.
But another core concept in Bard's Tale 4 is even more heretical: getting rid of basic attack and defend.
BTINO.

I mean, I liked Final Fantasy Tactics too, BUT I DIDN'T PAY MONEY FOR ANOTHER FFT GAME. I'm done.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 4:28 pm
by Gizmo
Drool wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 1:15 pm
thebruce wrote:
July 7th, 2017, 10:17 am
I like.
I do not.
Alas... I have to agree with Drool; (not that that itself is a problem). I think the art design is superb, but the gameplay seems inappropriate and lacking... I thought the very same of FO3. :|

Also: This is not the truth:
Keenan wrote:It's a huge shift from traditional dungeon crawling, where your individual heroes have no positioning to account for whatsoever.
Many Crawlers (including Eye of the Beholder —1991), accounted for the position of the heroes. The party could be attacked from behind, or from the side, and it was those heroes who were the ones at risk for damage. Rear rank party members usually could not engage in melee; this made human(oid) shields of the front rank fighters; who protected the rear rank archers and spell casters. Even in EoB, (once you got them) you would put fighters in the back ranks, to fend off ambush attacks from the rear; (attacks that might unexpectedly kill off a cleric or mage).

If you include top-down/isometric games like Baldur's Gate as Dungeoncrawlers (I do not), Those games had formations that would affect the advance of attackers. The player could even use PCs to lure enemies into clumps that could be blasted by fireball, or other area effect spells.

Re: Bard's Tale IV External News Thread

Posted: July 7th, 2017, 8:54 pm
by Crosmando
I really do not understand why they seem to be replacing Spell Points/Mana with cooldowns and meditation, the originals had a completely functional and interesting system where SP was a limited resource that needed to be managed, it feels like the BT4 team have caught the "innovation" virus, changing things purely because they are "old". That said I don't have a problem with them making combat more tactical, I just think cooldowns are a poor way to balance abilities. What possible use is the Energy Emporium going to be when mana is gained by meditation during combat?

Changing the combat system so radically, getting rid of Orcs, Half-Orcs, Hobbits, Gnomes and Half-Elves as playable races, changing the world, talking about Final Fantasy and Magic: The Gathering instead of actual games in the same genre as Bard's Tale. It's like InXile is purposely trying to alienate fans of the original BTs. Apparently to InXile all Bard's Tale means is "a blobber RPG with a Bard class" :(

EDIT: I also dislike the idea of weapons giving abilities, rather than abilities being intrinsic to a class. The "combo" stuff also made me cringe.