Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the prison?

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Neofit
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Neofit » October 1st, 2014, 7:00 am

You are right guys, even if you manage to kill Danforth before placing the repeater on the antenna in Damonta, either by sacrificing some recruits or teleporting across the minefield, the game is so heavily scripted towards cra p that when you finally go to Damonta to finish the job, weird things start to happen on your way back. HQ radioes that (now dead) Danforth is still being mean to the civilians, he himself speaks on the radio complaining that someone poisoned his dogs, etc.

But the civilians are wiped out even before that. After killing Danforth and even before going back to the desert I couldn't find the Browns, the NPCs by the well were replaced by half a dozen RSMs, 3 RSMs by the exit point to the desert. Also, I left the sick Anna (who was calling Elroy on the radio) thinking I might find a cure in the Temple, forgot about her, and after dealing with Danforth I found her dead body, but I can't zoom in close enough to see if she has been shot or not. Anyway, another bad quest line.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Kasseopea » October 1st, 2014, 8:18 am

Anna Hegedus seems to be a tear-jerk and nothing more. It breaks the immersion when you know that no matter how good you are, they wont let you to be good enough, because they want you to feel sad.

Surgeon Lv10 and cant do shit, not even 1% chance. Thats some serious bullshit, considering Surgeon Lv1 is enough to bring someone back from taking a circular saw from a Slicer Dicer to the face 7 times in a row.

We cant hack those turrets, we cant really destroy them, we cant circumvent them (you can go around to the right, but once you come close enough to the turret it just notices you somehow and voila)

Even if we manage to get somehow past them, the game still insists in making us lose. You know, because drama and shit.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Neofit » October 1st, 2014, 8:32 am

Kasseopea wrote:We cant hack those turrets, we cant really destroy them, we cant circumvent them (you can go around to the right, but once you come close enough to the turret it just notices you somehow and voila)
You can destroy the turrets. There is a nearly invisible robot by the fence gate on our side of the white rocks line. You need a tank tread from a chest in Damonta to fix it, then it will destroy the turrets. And of course the genius who wrote this quest line is going out of his way to blame the Rangers for not being able to get rid of Danforth during their first visit to the Prison.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Kasseopea » October 1st, 2014, 8:34 am

Neofit wrote:
Kasseopea wrote:We cant hack those turrets, we cant really destroy them, we cant circumvent them (you can go around to the right, but once you come close enough to the turret it just notices you somehow and voila)
You can destroy the turrets. There is a nearly invisible robot by the fence gate on our side of the white rocks line. You need a tank tread from a chest in Damonta to fix it, then it will destroy the turrets. And of course the genius who wrote this quest line is going out of his way to blame the Rangers for not being able to get rid of Danforth during their first visit to the Prison.
...we are talking about preventing the civilians from being killed, which is too late when you get the track.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by UncleSporky » October 1st, 2014, 8:58 am

Kasseopea wrote:
Neofit wrote:
Kasseopea wrote:We cant hack those turrets, we cant really destroy them, we cant circumvent them (you can go around to the right, but once you come close enough to the turret it just notices you somehow and voila)
You can destroy the turrets. There is a nearly invisible robot by the fence gate on our side of the white rocks line. You need a tank tread from a chest in Damonta to fix it, then it will destroy the turrets. And of course the genius who wrote this quest line is going out of his way to blame the Rangers for not being able to get rid of Danforth during their first visit to the Prison.
...we are talking about preventing the civilians from being killed, which is too late when you get the track.
Well no, it's too late when you attach the third radio transmitter at Damonta. That is the exact moment everyone dies (which always happens even if every RSM in the Prison is dead). You can get the track and go use it before attaching the transmitter if you like.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Kasseopea » October 1st, 2014, 9:15 am

UncleSporky wrote: Well no, it's too late when you attach the third radio transmitter at Damonta. That is the exact moment everyone dies (which always happens even if every RSM in the Prison is dead). You can get the track and go use it before attaching the transmitter if you like.
No fucking shit, you dont say. Read the damn thread before posting

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by UncleSporky » October 1st, 2014, 9:23 am

Kasseopea wrote:
UncleSporky wrote: Well no, it's too late when you attach the third radio transmitter at Damonta. That is the exact moment everyone dies (which always happens even if every RSM in the Prison is dead). You can get the track and go use it before attaching the transmitter if you like.
No fucking shit, you dont say. Read the damn thread before posting
I posted on the first page, I've been reading the whole thread. You posted something that was incorrect and I corrected you. The track has nothing to do with being too late to save civilians.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Neofit » October 1st, 2014, 9:31 am

UncleSporky wrote: Well no, it's too late when you attach the third radio transmitter at Damonta. That is the exact moment everyone dies (which always happens even if every RSM in the Prison is dead). You can get the track and go use it before attaching the transmitter if you like.
From my tests above, everyone dies even if you don't attach the last transmitter at Damonta. I did the Prison, spoke with Jobe, got the quest to kill Danforth, and he said to do this asap otherwise the latter will retaliate on the civilians. I went for a trek, did the Temple, did Damonta, got the tread, did not attach the transmitter, went back to the Prison and everyone was still alive. I then used the robot to destroy the turrets, bypassed the minefield (that only disappears when you attach the transponder in Damonta), killed Danforth, and that triggered the death of all civilians but Jobe, and the release of two small groups or RSM.

I reloaded a save by the Damonta antenna, used the transmitter, went to the prison, and everyone was dead.

So we have two triggers: placing the last transmitter at the antenna in Damonta, OR killing Danforth.

It could be interesting to reload a save before my first trip to the Prison, do all of Damonta, come back to the Prison, do all the Prison, and see if killing Danforth in this situation would still trigger the death of everyone. This is too much work though. Looking at how the rest of the quest chains that I have seen so far have been scripted like the Highpool/Ag Center situation, the Temple, or what I've seen from the Prison so far, I have a feeling that even in this situation the death of Danforth would trigger the death of all civilians for one reason or another, like his dogs, mad with grief, go on a rampage and kill everyone in a cutscene where you cannot react, or something :).

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Kasseopea » October 1st, 2014, 9:37 am

UncleSporky wrote:
Kasseopea wrote:
UncleSporky wrote: Well no, it's too late when you attach the third radio transmitter at Damonta. That is the exact moment everyone dies (which always happens even if every RSM in the Prison is dead). You can get the track and go use it before attaching the transmitter if you like.
No fucking shit, you dont say. Read the damn thread before posting
I posted on the first page, I've been reading the whole thread. You posted something that was incorrect and I corrected you. The track has nothing to do with being too late to save civilians.
It has, because you cant aquire it before going through the titan passage, as far as i know. Since the civs are killed once you return...well.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Waywocket » October 1st, 2014, 10:12 am

So are there any circumstances at all in which the civilians don't die? If it is literally impossible, and their deaths are a scripted certainty once the game reaches a certain point no matter the player's actions, then I may as well stop thinking about it.

If you never even entered the zone to speak to Red, and healed through the radiation, does Danforth still come on the radio once you've done the Damonta transmitter?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by UncleSporky » October 1st, 2014, 10:42 am

Kasseopea wrote:
UncleSporky wrote:
Kasseopea wrote:No fucking shit, you dont say. Read the damn thread before posting
I posted on the first page, I've been reading the whole thread. You posted something that was incorrect and I corrected you. The track has nothing to do with being too late to save civilians.
It has, because you cant aquire it before going through the titan passage, as far as i know. Since the civs are killed once you return...well.
Man, for someone who criticized me for not reading the thread...

The civs are not killed once you return. They are killed the moment you attach the transmitter, or the moment you kill Danforth. You can get the tread and go back and they are all still alive, I did this myself. This was verified again just one post above yours:
I did the Prison, spoke with Jobe, got the quest to kill Danforth, and he said to do this asap otherwise the latter will retaliate on the civilians. I went for a trek, did the Temple, did Damonta, got the tread, did not attach the transmitter, went back to the Prison and everyone was still alive.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by ZonkerBrainless » October 1st, 2014, 10:54 am

Wait, what turrets? The ones that you can have the robot blow up once you bring it a replacement tread?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by ZonkerBrainless » October 1st, 2014, 10:56 am

Neofit wrote:
Kasseopea wrote:We cant hack those turrets, we cant really destroy them, we cant circumvent them (you can go around to the right, but once you come close enough to the turret it just notices you somehow and voila)
You can destroy the turrets. There is a nearly invisible robot by the fence gate on our side of the white rocks line. You need a tank tread from a chest in Damonta to fix it, then it will destroy the turrets. And of course the genius who wrote this quest line is going out of his way to blame the Rangers for not being able to get rid of Danforth during their first visit to the Prison.
Aha! Exactly!

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by veryinky » October 1st, 2014, 11:19 am

It's possible to keep the civilians alive at the prison. Simply never complete the game.

But more seriously, Jobe blames the Rangers for not telling him about the turrets and minefield. Even though he doesn't react to any variation of turret or mines.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by DeathQuaker » October 1st, 2014, 11:22 am

Man, for a game that's supposed to "let you make your own choices" you get railroaded something fierce an awful lot, don't you? Reading this whole thing, it's just BS. The writers are going to force you to go through the game the very precise way they want you to, and they will punish you along the way just for existing no matter what solutions you seek out.

I enjoy this game, I do, but there's some real wallbanger moments in this game and this is one of them. If they didn't hype to the nth degree about "choices" and "sandbox" and "multiple solutions to every problem" I'd accept the linear plot for what it is and just play along, but it's the fact the game is so NOT what the hype says it is (with this scenario being incontrovertible proof) that makes the situation so frustrating. The hype keeps telling us "but this gave gives players multiple ways out" so it feels like of course there should be multiple ways out of things and there just aren't.

(I remember in the beta trying to be clever and trying to get the goats in the prison area to set off the mines in front of Danforth's area with animal whisperer, but of course nothing works. The devs couldn't have shouted "fuck player creativity!" any louder if they wanted to.)

Anyway, rant done, question to those of you --- if you bring the tread back before attaching the transmitter and the ppl are alive... do they still die randomly when you deal with Danforth? Is it just a hard scripted event I should just know to take it as the writers punishing the players for existing and playing the game and ignore it, or is it worth going through the extra effort to try to be get it right?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Kasseopea » October 1st, 2014, 11:41 am

DeathQuaker wrote:Man, for a game that's supposed to "let you make your own choices" you get railroaded something fierce an awful lot, don't you? Reading this whole thing, it's just BS. The writers are going to force you to go through the game the very precise way they want you to, and they will punish you along the way just for existing no matter what solutions you seek out.

I enjoy this game, I do, but there's some real wallbanger moments in this game and this is one of them. If they didn't hype to the nth degree about "choices" and "sandbox" and "multiple solutions to every problem" I'd accept the linear plot for what it is and just play along, but it's the fact the game is so NOT what the hype says it is (with this scenario being incontrovertible proof) that makes the situation so frustrating. The hype keeps telling us "but this gave gives players multiple ways out" so it feels like of course there should be multiple ways out of things and there just aren't.

(I remember in the beta trying to be clever and trying to get the goats in the prison area to set off the mines in front of Danforth's area with animal whisperer, but of course nothing works. The devs couldn't have shouted "fuck player creativity!" any louder if they wanted to.)

Anyway, rant done, question to those of you --- if you bring the tread back before attaching the transmitter and the ppl are alive... do they still die randomly when you deal with Danforth? Is it just a hard scripted event I should just know to take it as the writers punishing the players for existing and playing the game and ignore it, or is it worth going through the extra effort to try to be get it right?
Same here - its about the promise of choice they give you. No one expects CoD having choices, but here? On such important occasions?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by ZonkerBrainless » October 1st, 2014, 11:48 am

Yeah this one and the lady who is sick and her husband comes running around the corner right after you kill her.

Downer.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by UncleSporky » October 1st, 2014, 11:49 am

ZonkerBrainless wrote:Yeah this one and the lady who is sick and her husband comes running around the corner right after you kill her.

Downer.
That doesn't happen, at least it didn't in my game. That happened in beta. Now there's just a kid who says he's tattling on you. I never saw her husband.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by ZonkerBrainless » October 1st, 2014, 11:51 am

UncleSporky wrote:
ZonkerBrainless wrote:Yeah this one and the lady who is sick and her husband comes running around the corner right after you kill her.

Downer.
That doesn't happen, at least it didn't in my game. That happened in beta. Now there's just a kid who says he's tattling on you. I never saw her husband.
So depressing I didn't even bother when the gamma came out.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Neofit » October 1st, 2014, 12:57 pm

DeathQuaker wrote:Anyway, rant done, question to those of you --- if you bring the tread back before attaching the transmitter and the ppl are alive... do they still die randomly when you deal with Danforth? Is it just a hard scripted event I should just know to take it as the writers punishing the players for existing and playing the game and ignore it, or is it worth going through the extra effort to try to be get it right?
Just a few posts above, on the same page:
Neofit wrote:From my tests above, everyone dies even if you don't attach the last transmitter at Damonta. I did the Prison, spoke with Jobe, got the quest to kill Danforth, and he said to do this asap otherwise the latter will retaliate on the civilians. I went for a trek, did the Temple, did Damonta, got the tread, did not attach the transmitter, went back to the Prison and everyone was still alive. I then used the robot to destroy the turrets, bypassed the minefield (that only disappears when you attach the transponder in Damonta), killed Danforth, and that triggered the death of all civilians but Jobe, and the release of two small groups or RSM.

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