Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the prison?

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Ralphfromdk
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Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the prison?

Post by Ralphfromdk » September 21st, 2014, 3:47 am

Back in the beta, when I first went to the prison, I went about doing all the little side things you could in the prison.
Talk to Red about the suits that I needed, fix the well, kill the sick lady, save the sexslaves, free the pigs, etc.
I aslo started killing all the RSM that I could find untill I got to the turrets.
Passing by the farm, I met the dumbass farmer Jobe.

Then I did the rest of the map, found the tracks for the robot, and on my way back, it turns out Jobe has pissed of the RSM even more and blamed me for it. And now all the people living there are dead.

Now it might have been my skorpion killing that triggerd it, or maybe it was talking to Jobe and the others that made Danforth kill every one, but I don't know what part that did it, as I did it all in one go before the turrets stopping me.

Now to my question:
Can I avoid dead civilians by doing it like this
-Only talking to Red about the suits, then leave.
-Do everything else on the map, and come back with the tracks for the robot.
-THEN do all the quests and murder my way through the RSM, free the farm, kill Danforth before he loses his shit, and save the day.

Or will Jobe piss him of without ever meeting me? Or will Danforth goes crazy on his own when I have the tracks?
(And yes, I want to kill every single last RSM member, fuck those guys, I don't want to be civil about it)

If it can't be done, then tough luck i guess. But it would be nice if I can spare all the people living there.

salstarz
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by salstarz » September 21st, 2014, 12:54 pm

Did you do the dog cure quest from dumbass Jobe? Danforth has sick dogs and needs a cure. Just curious....why do you kill the lady?

Ralphfromdk
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Ralphfromdk » September 21st, 2014, 3:00 pm

salstarz wrote:Did you do the dog cure quest from dumbass Jobe? Danforth has sick dogs and needs a cure. Just curious....why do you kill the lady?
Well, as far as I understood it, Jobe only poisoned the dogs AFTER I tried to get into the prison(and failed)
At this point, the RSM had already killed the civilians.

And as for the sick/dying lady: She was in a bad way, and her husband had been away for a long time. The dude is either failing to find a cure, or he's dead. Either way, she is just laying there suffering, so I helped her out. Poor thing.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by salstarz » September 21st, 2014, 7:32 pm

I think you leave danforth until you have done the temple titan stuff..... if I remember correctly I am at my 4th play through, first since the release, I am up to the temple now. returning to the prison that dude hasn't appeared about the dog poison, so I figure I have to do temple first with DBM and mushroom cloud people. Then return to prison.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by slitherrr » September 27th, 2014, 10:03 pm

On the pre-release playthrough, I did not kill Auerwater, but Jobe still did his thing. The sequence appears to be constructed in such a way that Jobe will be stupid no matter what.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by willingcat » September 27th, 2014, 10:44 pm

As far ad I know, Prison mission has 1 way solution.

1. Visit Prison Area.
2. Do whatever you want.
3. leave Prison Area.
4. Revisit Prison Area later. All civilians DEAD.
5. Go to Danforth. Do whatever you want during way up to Danforth, kill or pay or pass.

It's closed bad ending. I didn't see no one talking exact answer for this. So there's no any other specifics way to save civilians. It's sad, but wasted ending in wasteland.

Plz don't talk about Beta experiences. It was broken or incomplete state back there. Grenades or bugs won't solve any problem in release version.
Last edited by willingcat on September 28th, 2014, 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

veryinky
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by veryinky » September 27th, 2014, 10:53 pm

They probably increased the turrets to 4000+ HP so 7 rangers armed with 7 RPG-7s couldn't destroy them in one big alpha strike.

Still is kinda silly. Should have put up a forcefield or something while they were at it.

Back during the beta, I hoped they'd replace the turrets and invisible supermines with something more interesting, like say one of those M3 "Regan" Hovertanks, minus the hover, from Wasteland 1's Needles armory. Always wondered what they looked like.

Kinda find it odd that there's a tunnel going under the Prison but it wasn't used as a back entrance. There's even skill requirements and an animation for unblocking one of the exits.

If they don't want us to Kill Davenforth before it's time, why not let us evacuate the civilians? There's plenty of room that recently opened up at AgCenter/Highpool.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by DunyTheWastelander » September 27th, 2014, 11:17 pm

I was pondering the same thing :)
When I pretended to give Danforth the dog cure and then slaughtered them all the end splash screen told my party that the skorpions rule the prison :P

Maybe the only way is to skip it until you get Temple of Titan -> Damonta done. If the outcome is still the same then we're forced into a bad ending.

All you really need from The Prison is to go through the caves and talk to Red about the rad suits, everything else can be skipped so it seems possible to avoid contact with Skorpions. I wonder how will game treat that ?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by veryinky » September 27th, 2014, 11:23 pm

They still kill the civilians even if you never go to the Prison and plow through the radiation fields thanks to the magic of med and trauma kits.

The trigger is the Demonta relay. Install that, Danforth goes on his rampage as soon as you exit Titan Valley.

Ralphfromdk
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Ralphfromdk » September 28th, 2014, 4:03 am

veryinky wrote:They still kill the civilians even if you never go to the Prison and plow through the radiation fields thanks to the magic of med and trauma kits.

The trigger is the Demonta relay. Install that, Danforth goes on his rampage as soon as you exit Titan Valley.
Welp that settles it then. I'm gonna murder as many RSM as I can the first time around. It's a nice bunch of xp and loot that I don't wanna miss before Titan and onwards.

And in the end, it's only really one dumbass pigfarmer and his kids, and the drunk and his wife that are left any ways.
Not that big a loss to the world I guess.

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Waywocket
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Waywocket » September 28th, 2014, 6:40 am

veryinky wrote:The trigger is the Demonta relay. Install that, Danforth goes on his rampage as soon as you exit Titan Valley.
Hmm, does that mean that you can avoid hooking up the relay, get the robot part, then go and kill Danforth before he decides to murder everybody?

I've read several threads about this and I'm still not clear on whether, in the release version, it's actually possible to avoid the civilians getting slaughtered.

Ralphfromdk
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Ralphfromdk » September 28th, 2014, 7:48 am

Waywocket wrote:
veryinky wrote:The trigger is the Demonta relay. Install that, Danforth goes on his rampage as soon as you exit Titan Valley.
Hmm, does that mean that you can avoid hooking up the relay, get the robot part, then go and kill Danforth before he decides to murder everybody?

I've read several threads about this and I'm still not clear on whether, in the release version, it's actually possible to avoid the civilians getting slaughtered.
Nope, that can't be done.I tried doing it by accident (forgot the tower part, I just left Domanta with the parts) If you don't hook the tower up, and just go back with the tracks, when you blow up there turrets there are insta kill mines that you can't defuse in front of the prison (my demo guy had around 8 in the skill, yet 0% chance) only way around those is Danforth opening the doors to let out his last kill squads.

*edit* This is only for the murder way of doing it. I have not tried doing it "peacefully" seeing as the RSM are a bunch or arseholes and don't deserver to live. I kill arseholes. All of them. Making the wasteland a better place one dead badguy at a time.
Last edited by Ralphfromdk on September 28th, 2014, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by veryinky » September 28th, 2014, 7:59 am

After killing Danforth, Jobe says "you've saved this community!"

He's the only person left alive, RSM killed everyone, everything, even the pigs. Even the slaves in the cells. Even Anna.

This is easily the thing I hate the most about Wasteland 2, those invincible turrets (which were apparently not invincible back during the Beta) and the fact that you can't ignore the map. Have to do it to continue the game.

I don't understand what this adds to story or to the gameplay. Heck if they wanted to dissuade people from trying to kill Danforth, put those kill 3 kill teams inside the courtyard. 8 heavy gunners, 10 lobbers, 15 riflemen would be a tough nut to crack and it would make a lot more sense then him sending his elite troops to kill the local pig farmer.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Shining Hector » September 28th, 2014, 8:44 am

Well, I guess the farmers that escaped after you slaughtered the overseers still survived, and there were probably more farmers off-screen. I don't see them supporting all those troops with 6 indentured servant farmers and 3 confiscated pigs. There were probably more farms off-screen.

They did kinda overdo it with forcing bad endings, though. Vargas couldn't round up a second posse to help Highpool/Ag center, really? There's like 15 rangers with hundreds of HP each just in the part of the base you can explore. He's willing to risk either the base's food or water supply, assuming your not-even-Rangers-yet team doesn't get wiped out and he loses both? He knew the story when you were right outside the Citadel.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Jobe00 » September 29th, 2014, 8:03 am

Has anyone tried killing Jobe?

He's what causes Danforth to go on a rampage, so if you end him, the dogs don't get poisoned, and MAYBE Danforth won't wipe out Happy Valley before you can get the part you need in Damonta and then end RSM.

Yes, Jobe is the NPC named after my online handle. I give everyone permission to end him because while I'm an asshole, I wouldn't kill anyone's dog. That's just mean.

Hell, forget permission. Just end Jobe. He's desperate, but he's also a complete bastard. The Wasteland is better off without him, the dog killing asshole.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by UncleSporky » September 29th, 2014, 8:13 am

I think people have done that and the dogs end up poisoned all the same, as if he did it just before you visited, and the poison is slow-acting or something.

I think.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Neofit » September 30th, 2014, 10:05 am

Ralphfromdk wrote:Nope, that can't be done.I tried doing it by accident (forgot the tower part, I just left Domanta with the parts) If you don't hook the tower up, and just go back with the tracks, when you blow up there turrets there are insta kill mines that you can't defuse in front of the prison (my demo guy had around 8 in the skill, yet 0% chance) only way around those is Danforth opening the doors to let out his last kill squads.
Yep, I hate it when the game throws this kind of crap at you. Yet there is a solution to get through the minefield before hooking up the second antenna.

Like you saw, a guy with 8 in Demo, supposed to get a 10% success vs Challenge Level 10 (the highest possible) is still getting a 0% on mouseover. The game is clearly cheating. Yet I remembered how we Rangers were brought up in the spirit of sacrifice and stuff. You can remove the mines WW1 style, I calculated that you need 4 bodies to make a proper path through, and I happened to have 4 recruits I didn't need at that point. That's 3 trips between the Prison and the Citadel, 2 to bring the 4 lambs (I still can't dismiss Takayuki after the patch, he still gets angry about the miners I didn't kill), then a 3rd one to top up my team since I am expecting heavy resistance when inside.

I made one trip then thought WTF, the game is cheating so will I, I won't waste my time doing the back and forths between the Citadel and the Prison and will take a shortcut. It is enough for me to know that the minefield is passable if I waste a bit of time going through. So I teleported my dudes across. If you save with your group near the minefield, in the xml save file you can add 40 to the X coordinate and you will be on the other side with a nice margin. Too much and you'll be in the aggro radius.

The game does expect this outcome to happen too:

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Dark
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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by Dark » September 30th, 2014, 2:01 pm

Does that prevent the deaths of the civilians when you hook up the Damonta repeater?

Or does the ghost of Danforth go crazy and kill everybody?

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by veryinky » September 30th, 2014, 2:16 pm

Yes. Ghost of Danforth goes crazy and kills everybody. The civilians can not be saved in any way.
Just like the ghost of Kate detonates the nuke in Titan Canyon if you killed her but still gave the nuke to the monks.

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Re: Can I avoid the RSM killing all the civilians at the pri

Post by IONDragonX » September 30th, 2014, 2:57 pm

Neofit wrote:You can remove the mines WW1 style, I calculated that you need 4 bodies to make a proper path through, and I happened to have 4 recruits I didn't need at that point.
O.o You, sir, are my hero. :D I thought that I was thinking outside the box but you've proven to me that I'm just banging my head against it.

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