Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Check here to discuss Wasteland 2 gameplay topics. Please avoid spoilers in thread titles.

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

Post Reply
SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3504
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » August 2nd, 2014, 2:08 am

And, real quick, here's the updated Armor list. For the most part this is the same as before, with a couple of minor but notable changes. First up, Strength Requirements are no longer hard gated. You now suffer an increasing Combat Speed penalty for each point of Strength you are below the requirement, meaning that weaker characters can still wear heavy armor as long as they don't mind being essentially immobilized. Second, they tweaked a few of the numbers just a bit, but not by much. Armor is still kind of over-priced, but I'll just chalk that up to a game-ism.

Light Armor
Bullet Proof Shirt (Tier 1): 2 Armor, 4.0 lbs, $250
Leather Jacket (Tier 2): 3 Armor, 3.0 lbs, $500
Tactical Vest (Tier 3): 4 Armor, 5.0 lbs, $1000
Kevlar Vest (Tier 4): 5 Armor, 5.0 lbs, $1600
Kevlar Suit (Tier 5): 6 Armor, -0.4 Combat Speed, Strength 4 (-0.2 CS per), 7.0 lbs, $2400
Spectrum Assault Vest (Tier 6): 7 Armor, 4.0 lbs, $5000

Heavy Armor
Goat Hide Armor (Tier 1): 3 Armor, -0.4 Combat Speed, Strength 5 (-0.2 CS per), 8.0 lbs, $250
Steel Plate Armor (Tier 2): 4 Armor, -0.8 Combat Speed, Strength 6 (-0.4 CS per), 13.0 lbs, $500
Combat Armor (Tier 3): 5 Armor, -0.4 Combat Speed, Strength 4 (-0.2 CS per), 10.0 lbs, $1000
Mobile Infantry Armor (Tier 4): 7 Armor, -0.6 Combat Speed, Strength 4 (-0.3 CS per), 8.0 lbs, $1600
Power Armor (Tier 5): 9 Armor, -1.0 Combat Speed, 14.0 lbs, $2400
Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Tier 6): 10 Armor, -0.6 Combat Speed, Strength 7 (-0.2 CS per), 10.0 lbs, $5000


Note that in the case of reduced Combat Speed, armor directly reduces your characters movement score based on their Speed Attribute. This can quickly add up if you're putting heavy armor on a weak character. Say, for example, that you put Steel Plate Armor on a Strength 3 character - they would suffer -0.8 to their Combat Speed as normal, but then also an additional -1.2 Combat Speed (-0.4 x 3) from their low Strength. With a total penalty of -2.0 Combat Speed, they'll be lucky if they can move a single square for less than 2 Action Points (or lucky if they can move at all, in the case of lower Speed characters).

EDIT - And no, armor still doesn't show up on your character model. The Devs seem to have pretty much settled on the whole "Clothing is cosmetic, Armor is functional" approach. Personally, I'm fine with that.

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9785
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by Drool » August 2nd, 2014, 8:36 pm

SagaDC wrote:Bullet Proof Shirt (Tier 1)
Leather Jacket (Tier 2)
Power Armor (Tier 5)
Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Tier 6)
Sigh.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3504
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » August 2nd, 2014, 8:43 pm

Drool wrote:
SagaDC wrote:Bullet Proof Shirt (Tier 1)
Leather Jacket (Tier 2)
Power Armor (Tier 5)
Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Tier 6)
Sigh.
Sorry man, that's how I feel about the Mangler suddenly becoming the top-tiered Rocket Launcher. But sometimes I guess you've just got to shrug, and let the Devs make their weird little changes. :)

User avatar
Priest4hire
Explorer
Posts: 480
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 12:38 pm

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by Priest4hire » August 3rd, 2014, 12:03 am

A leather jacket is completely worthless as armour. It won't stop anything. And this is something the original Wasteland got right. Why does the new game have to be notably dumber with the armour? Also, goat hide is leather. It shouldn't take a lesson in armour physics to explain why it's stupid for 8 pounds of leather to have zero additional protection over 3.

And are people in the wasteland just about the most feeble losers or what? A Renaissance steel cuirass could weigh over 20 pounds, and it takes a 7 in strength to handle just 10? Or is that 4 strength to handle 10? 6 strength to handle 13? 5 to handle 8? Or 7? Gah.

Also, their should be an award for taking something as cool and iconic as power armour and making it boring and lame. And at 14 pounds it must be made of balsa wood. Even lightweight medical exoskeletons like the Hal-5 weigh more than that, and they have no armour. Hell, it weighs less than half the weight of a PSG-1 Wait, that can't be right. Why would a PSG-1 weigh as much as an anti-materiel rifle? Anyway, when a gun weighs more than power armour, something is screwy.

And what is with the randomly screwing with the order of armour protection? How does making pseudo-chitin better than power armour enhance, or even modify, the game in any meaningful way? I can at least get why one might change dollars to scrap. But this? It's like they're deliberately trolling Wasteland fans, cause I honestly can't think of any other reason to do it.

User avatar
frozyx
Adventurer
Posts: 594
Joined: December 15th, 2013, 7:15 am

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by frozyx » August 3rd, 2014, 9:31 am

I dont like the penalty design tbh. See this one:

Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Tier 6): 10 Armor, -0.6 Combat Speed, Strength 7 (-0.2 CS per), 10.0 lbs, $5000

So Str 7 would have -0.6 speed
Str 6 would be on -0.8
str 5 on -1.0

But why wont another Str point above 7 not reduce the penalty? Why is someone with 8 Str not on -0.4 only? Sounds a bit strange.

Tbh, id just make every such armor have a certain penalty (or maybe none) on Str 10 and then reduce speed for each pt below 10. Seems a bit more logical to me and would actually make high Str beneficial - in this regard.

BetaSpectre
Explorer
Posts: 279
Joined: March 2nd, 2014, 10:14 pm

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by BetaSpectre » August 3rd, 2014, 9:43 am

The fact a normal Jacket is more protective than a bullet proof shirt is irksome. Its like saying this body armor provides less protection than this shirt. I could imagine that the jacket is a Kevlar one which are common and do exist.

But a leather jacket is near worthless for stopping ammunition. It'd be superior ironically than some Kevlar vests for stopping blades, and if thick enough the jacket could prevent blunt trauma.

Over all protection is honestly more complicated than simple numbers in real life. The type of damage is important as well. Some games such as Fallout do take in consideration different damage types.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3504
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » August 3rd, 2014, 10:28 am

frozyx wrote:But why wont another Str point above 7 not reduce the penalty? Why is someone with 8 Str not on -0.4 only? Sounds a bit strange.
I suspect that this is because you can compensate for the weight factor of armor with superior strength, but you can't completely compensate for the bulk or mobility factor. Just because you're super strong won't allow you to completely negate the difficulty of moving in armor-reinforced joints and the like. Power Armor, for example, has no Strength requirement because of the motors - but the fact that you have to wait on those motors to assist with your movement reduces your Combat Speed anyway (and pretty heavily, too).

At least, that's my take on it, anyway. Still better than when they just had a flat "You're not strong enough to wear this armor!" requirement.
BetaSpectre wrote:The fact a normal Jacket is more protective than a bullet proof shirt is irksome. Its like saying this body armor provides less protection than this shirt. I could imagine that the jacket is a Kevlar one which are common and do exist.

But a leather jacket is near worthless for stopping ammunition. It'd be superior ironically than some Kevlar vests for stopping blades, and if thick enough the jacket could prevent blunt trauma.

Over all protection is honestly more complicated than simple numbers in real life. The type of damage is important as well. Some games such as Fallout do take in consideration different damage types.
The only thing I can imagine is that they consider it more protective due to the overall body coverage. I suppose a "bulletproof shirt" - at least based on the picture - only covers the back and front of the torso, while a leather jacket covers the torso, the arms, and possibly even hangs down to provide some protection to the hips and part of the lower body.

It might have added a nice tactical element if they had different types of armor values, though, because I'd definitely agree on the whole assessment of leather being better against melee attacks than bullets. But then again, I guess that can be a slippery slope, because it can quickly balloon into having a dozen different types of Armor and Resistance for every piece of armor (ala the classic Fallouts). And that adds a lot of unnecessary confusion.

User avatar
ClashFan
Explorer
Posts: 327
Joined: November 24th, 2013, 3:23 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by ClashFan » August 3rd, 2014, 5:21 pm

Add me to those puzzled that a "leather jacket" is better armor than a bullet proof shirt. Silly.

And, I AM irked that armor might not show on the character. When is the last time a visual rpg did that? It's always been one of the joys of games from Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc. to enjoy cool looking characters.

I could see some armor, like say a bullet proof shirt, not showing because it is UNDER the clothing. But, vests and combat armor, etc. should be seen. Power armor? Why not have a "Show armor" toggle for those that want this? Unless the devs just don't want to put the time into making this work?

I think it is still silly that some of the clothing choices at character creation clearly are armor, yet have no armor value. Huh?

One of my current joys in Divinity: Original Sin is the different armor looks and crafting armor certain colors. And, there are now some very cool armor appearance and crafting mods up on the Nexus, just a couple of months since the game has come out. So, if the devs leave this out of W2, I hope some mods will quickly be whipped up.

Alright, whine over...

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9785
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by Drool » August 3rd, 2014, 8:37 pm

Priest4hire wrote:But this? It's like they're deliberately trolling Wasteland fans, cause I honestly can't think of any other reason to do it.
Indeed. Right up there with making the Mason Cannon fucking tier 3.

These are just changes for the sake of changes. Come on, inXile, this is just stupid. I don't care that Mad Max wore a leather jacket.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3504
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » August 3rd, 2014, 11:02 pm

ClashFan wrote:I think it is still silly that some of the clothing choices at character creation clearly are armor, yet have no armor value. Huh?
My guess would be that the clothing system represents the remnants of when armor was intended to take up three separate slots (as seen in the original Ag Center/Inventory videos). Each piece of clothing would have had an Armor value, which would add up to your total overall Armor Rating. At some point they decided to drop that system, in favor of a more simplistic "single armor slot" system (ala Wasteland 1).

Rather than scrap all of the models that they had already made for the individual armor pieces, they simply converted them into "clothing". The reason it's probably stayed this way is because it's easier to recycle work that they've already done (ie, using the former armor component models as clothing items) than it is to do completely new work (ie, making models from scratch for a completely NEW set of armor items).

But that's just my guess at it.

Personally, I prefer the clothing system, but I would appreciate a wider variety of clothing items (several seem to have disappeared from the earlier Betas - though I rather suspect I know why). Of course, then again, I would appreciate the old three-slot armor system making a comeback even more, but that's simply not going to happen at this point.

BetaSpectre
Explorer
Posts: 279
Joined: March 2nd, 2014, 10:14 pm

Re: Armor List 2.0 (More Spoilers)

Post by BetaSpectre » August 3rd, 2014, 11:23 pm

Personally I would like to be able to purchase apparel to make my characters reflect what they have on them from trinkets to armor. With the option to not have your appearance change simply with different clothing on top.

After all wouldn't it be weird if every gun looked the same? Same concept when it comes to Armor/Clothes unless the PC wants otherwise.

I still want CNPC's to be more customized towards apparel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests