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STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 12:05 am
by RangerTeamEcho
Wiki lists this as the method for calculation of Starting MAXCON.
https://wasteland.fandom.com/wiki/Strength

CON Per Level 7 8 8 9 9 10 10 11 11 12
STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 3) + (level * CON Per level)

So i have a strength 9 char in creation screen, but his Starting MAXCON is 53, not 52 as could be derived above.
52 = 14 + (9 * 3) + (1 * 11)
52 = 14 + 27 + 11

You can see this in your creation screen at the bottom left, this is before you even choose your quirk. Oddly, if i increase STR to 10, then the in-game calculation is correct when applying the formula above, which works out to 56. There is no division in the formula above... all integers, so there should be no need for truncation.

Also, does this mean the Bonus Luck Rolls only start at level 2? So technically it should be lv 2-10 : 2 luck rolls, not lv 1-10?

Could anyone explain to me please?

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 3:25 am
by RangerTeamEcho
I don't know why... but it's like this. they seemed to have introduced a diminishing 'balancing bonus', a reverse bonus on a progression per 2 ranks of STR. STARTING MAXCON can now be expressed this way :-

STR 01 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 07/level + 5 BALANCING BONUS = 29
STR 02 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 08/level + 4 BALANCING BONUS = 32
STR 03 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 08/level + 4 BALANCING BONUS = 35
STR 04 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 09/level + 3 BALANCING BONUS = 38
STR 05 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 09/level + 3 BALANCING BONUS = 41
STR 06 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 10/level + 2 BALANCING BONUS = 44
STR 07 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 10/level + 2 BALANCING BONUS = 47
STR 08 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 11/level + 1 BALANCING BONUS = 50
STR 09 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 11/level + 1 BALANCING BONUS = 53
STR 10 STARTING MAXCON = 14 + (strength * 03) + 12/level + 0 BALANCING BONUS = 56

Maybe they didn't want different starting members of ur squad to have too huge gaps in their HP with one another, and introduced this balancing bonus.

So,
Eg. at Strength 1, you calculate ur MAXCON as per wiki, then add a '+5 balancing bonus' for a starting total of 29.
Eg. at Strength 7, you calculate ur MAXCON as per wiki, then add a '+2 balancing bonus' for a starting total of 47.

The actual formula might not be as above, that was just how i reverse-engineered the in-game result. Might be, they just took STR 10 as 56 Starting MAXCON, and then -3 per rank of strength below that. Cos if u noticed they are all 3 points difference. I'm sure someone could verify this.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 3:58 am
by Gillsing
Maybe starting MaxCon is just 26 + Strength × 3, without any other extra MaxCon for Strength? I think the 14 might have been raised to 26 in the Director's Cut, and then you don't get any extra MaxCon per level at level 1, since you haven't levelled up yet, and you already get 3 points per point in Strength. There's a list of recruitable NPCs where the Director's Cut versions all have 12 extra MaxCon:
viewtopic.php?t=8733

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 6:39 am
by RangerTeamEcho
Yeah that's it, that's the correct direct calculation. Like i said, the method i expressed was just how i derived it after counting backwards.

That's the problem i can't seem to find official pages where all the patches up to-date are listed. Do you have a link to this?

Now that we've worked out MAXCON at creation prior to game start, would you know for a fact if Bonus Luck Rolls are made while entering the game the first time, while you enter play and talk to Vargas? In other words, do Bonus Luck Rolls start at Level 1 or Level 2? Most wikis give the impression that it is tailored into calculation PER LEVEL, which would mean including starting Level 1, but i personally think not. However it's hard to say since my Luck is so low, maybe i've just been botching those rolls.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 7:23 am
by Gillsing
I don't see why they would be made for level 1, so I assume they are not. But you can test that by making only Luck 10 characters a few times. At some point one of those 50% chances of a Lucky Hitpoint should show at least one extra MaxCon.

The comprehensive list of recruitable NPCs is the only place where I've seen that Director's Cut gives +12 MaxCon, and you already have that link.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 4th, 2019, 2:09 pm
by RangerTeamEcho
OK Will do that. Is this Luck Table still accurate?

LUCK/LEVEL
1 HP per successful Luck roll (Luck*5 tested against a random number from 1 to 100).
The number of rolls varies. For levels 2-10, 2 rolls are made; 11-20 4; 21 and above 6.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 5th, 2019, 1:09 am
by Gillsing
Impossible to tell without extensive testing, but from my Luck 10 Ranger and Scotchmo's Luck 8 those numbers seem accurate, at least for level 21+, when I started to pay attention to getting more than a single Lucky Hitpoint.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 5th, 2019, 10:58 pm
by RangerTeamEcho
Hi i've just discovered something interesting with Disparnumerophobia- it's effect on MAXCON/level (STR) and SP/level (INT). here are results from direct testing.

STR/MAXCON

if i want a str 10 char, i create a strength 9 char keeping in mind i would take disparnumerophoabia; most of us would do this because... raw attributes are capped at 10 right, so to make the most use of this Quirk (much like Gifted perk of fallout series), and planning for 50 which is an even level i would assign a 9. the system does not see ur modified str as dynamic, meaning irrespective of raising to or from an even level, whether or not ur current str is 8 (9-1 on odd levels) or 10 (9+1 on even levels), it will only use the bonus max con per level of a true 9 str char ie. +11 MAXCON never +12.

Now some ppl say this is because game doesnt recognize 'buffed' stats on level-up but that's not actually an accurate explanation (maybe u can say for drugs but dispar is a unique trait not a buff). the effect is the same, but the reason is because this calculation was just made that way. i believe it to be an oversight, especially when effect of str on maxcon is supposedly retrospectively dynamic. and sp gain from int is not. you will see what i mean because it works differently on INT.

INT/SP

i have a disparnumerophobic char at level 1 with natural int of 7. level 1 creation, no discussion since sp is fixed at 12. starts off the game, still level 1 but now int modified to 6 (-1 odd). when i levelled up to lvl2, int becomes 8 (+1 even), in this level up i gained 3sp not 2sp. meaning it recognizes my bonus +1 int from dispar as a semi-permanent state (better word than buff). moreover, if u do what some ppl say- radio in only when u have accrued sufficient exp for even levels (let us say per 2 levels), yeah the system considers all levels in between even (or all int at 8, dunno.. same either way). from level 2 i saved enough to raise straight to 4, and i got 6sp not 5sp.

***

A real no-brainer right. yeah. especially when we logically thought just the opposite was true (MAXCON Gain <-> SP Gain).
thanks to Gillsing's editor to find this out quick.

ps. the only way i can achieve maximum MAXCON possible in the game, while having disparnumerophobia AT THE SAME TIME, is to eventually raise str naturally to 10 (bonus attribute gained every 10 levels), or make it 10 during creation (u can, because quirks r selected AFTER att), but why i would i do that and burn 1 full stat point vs. just for 52 points (starting diff 3 + 49) difference at maximum level 50.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 6th, 2019, 6:40 am
by Gillsing
Intelligence 4-7 gives 3 skill points when levelling up. If the game had recognised your buffed 8 as a base value and not a buffed value, that Ranger would have received 4 skill points for each of those two levels, which would have been 8 skill points instead of 6. So in the end it's the same as for Strength and Luck when it comes to MaxCon: Only the base value of the attribute counts, regardless of if the attribute is lower or higher when levelling up.

Not sure what editor if mine you mean. I never made an editor.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 6th, 2019, 8:01 pm
by RangerTeamEcho
yes you are right, i just checked Int again. My bad, I must have misread an interval. but this is for dispar quirk. let's see if attributes gained by every 10 levels changes retro properly, including base maxcon.

Re: STARTING MAXCON Calculation Does Not Work Out

Posted: September 7th, 2019, 4:17 am
by Gillsing
MaxCon from Strength per level is retroactive, Lucky Hit Points or skill points are not. Possibly because you never permanently spend MaxCon, so rather than giving the Ranger +X MaxCon when levelling up, the game just updates the total based on level and Strength.