Non-AR build

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Gillsing
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Gillsing » December 28th, 2018, 10:18 am

Myrth wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 9:29 am
By that point early game is over, thou.
I thought you said she was good for mid-game. You mentioned save-editing for better suits, but since that wouldn't put Darwin on the map, I'm not sure how that would help.

Late EDIT: It's possible to have Vargas put Darwin on the map by giving him Hell Razor's journal, which can apparently be done before being allowed into the citadel. So I guess you can have Pizepi even for the early game. And ammo wouldn't be an issue if you pick up VAX before Ag Center and Highpool. Either because of constantly Cyber Scrounging VAX, or because VAX mercilessly kills all humans.
Myrth wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 9:29 am
Have you ever played Jagged Alliance 2?
No. I've only seen people mention it when they ask for more combat options. I don't know why other developers don't shamelessly copy everything about it if it's so damn good. Maybe it would interfere with RPG aspects and levelling, which people also seem to love? Personally I don't care much for more combat options. Playing first person shooters where I have to use extra keys to lean out from behind a corner is just annoying. I grew up playing games with a joystick and never learned how to use a gamepad. Buttons here, buttons there, buttons everywhere. Maybe I'd like Jagged Alliance 2 if I tried it, but I haven't made an effort to get hold of a copy.

Myrth wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 9:29 am
So when I read crap like "b-but some options just have to be bad" I'm confused. Are we still in mid 80s and designing a coin-fed arcade game to simply mess with players?
Options don't have to be bad, but they frequently end up that way when the players start to investigate which builds are the best for DPS. Balancing everything might take a lot more effort than developers are willing to put in. Maybe it takes skill as well, and developers frequently lack that skill, and players frequently don't care enough to weed out the developers who make unbalanced games? If everyone were like you, there would be nothing but games for you, I'm sure. You and everyone just like you would all vote with your wallets and win the entire market share.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that one of the reasons I don't like having too many combat options is that the developers have to teach the AI to use those options effectively, or otherwise it's like giving players unfair advantages that then usually are countered with the AI simply cheating somehow. Sometimes less is more.

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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Helz » January 31st, 2019, 3:47 pm

I recently finished my first playthrough on Veteran difficulty with:

1x AR
2x Sniper rifles
1x Bladed weapons
1x Pistol
1x Energy weapon
1x Shotgun

At end game:
The #1 sniper had 213 kills, 47,910 damage done.
The Blade user had 196 kills, 44,013 damage done.
The AR user had 152 kills, 50,069 damage done.
The AR user was gifted the 100% ranged-critical perk about 3/4 of the way into the game which eventually bumped her (slightly) ahead in damage, before that she was solidly in the middle.

The only weapon that I thought was underpowered was the shotgun (kills: 20, damage done: 10,050). He had 1 kill until he got the Burninator, which was nice until the end-game when everything was immune to burn damage.

The bladed weapon fighter consistently did the most damage per attack, got the most attacks per round, and helped a lot with positioning and tactics. I'd place him well in front of my ranged characters, he'd intercept any enemies that charged them. He'd also flank enemies behind cover and slaughter them.

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Drool
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Drool » February 3rd, 2019, 11:24 pm

Good point. Some stats from my DC game just before the final assault on the Citadel:

PCs
Blunt: 165 kills; 27,943 damage
Energy/Shotgun: 45 kills; 10,571 damage
Main Sniper/Brawling: 195 kills; 52,416 damage
Pistols: 113 kills; 10,394 damage

NPCs
Secondary Sniper/Bladed (Vulture): 76 kills; 17,032 damage
SMG/Brawling (Ralphy): 47 kills; 13,768 damage
Bladed (Corran): 24 kills; 11,899 damage

NPCs are naturally lower, especially Corran who was the last to join. Of the PCs, only shotgun has been left behind on kills, but her damage is on par with the Pistolero (his kills are because he had Opportunist).

Also, just to put it out there, my brawling sniper with a Strength of 2, has, at level 39, has a 110% chance to hit and a 106% crit rate for 2.7x damage. Her base, non crit damage is 94-103, or an average of 32.8 damage per AP. Her PSG1 sniper rifle is 26.1/AP (with less crit chance and less of a multiplier). Endgame brawling is insane.
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Gillsing
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Gillsing » February 4th, 2019, 1:44 am

But how many combat turns did it take all your Rangers to do all that damage? Apparently it's the speed and convenience of shooting enemies quickly that makes assault rifles so good. No fussing about with having 'fun' with the combat system. Just acquire target, shoot target, and then be done with the whole thing, until next time. And with high enough skills (including Leadership) and weapon mods, cover is barely noticeable. Maybe cover and higher ground might require some flanking, but that's been rare as far as I've seen.

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Drool
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Drool » February 4th, 2019, 1:54 pm

No idea, but the snipers are generally one shot, one kill.
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Highwayman667
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Highwayman667 » March 17th, 2019, 5:22 pm

Sniper and brawler seems like an interesting combo. Might try it next playthrough.

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Drool
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by Drool » March 18th, 2019, 11:37 am

I quite liked it. Brawling is extremely powerful, even with a low strength. So it makes a good backup for when enemies are up close within the sniper's minimum range.
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crimsoncorporation
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Re: Non-AR build

Post by crimsoncorporation » March 19th, 2019, 4:58 am

Drool wrote:
March 18th, 2019, 11:37 am
I quite liked it. Brawling is extremely powerful [...]
It is indeed. My favorite build is a high-speed, high-strength alcoholic brawler, that also has brute force for the melee perks. Consistently the best damage dealer of all for me, and gets plenty of random debuffs too, which comes in very handy for Supreme Jerk.

It's a brutal build, and maybe almost overpowered. The only weakness is the early game, but even then it's useful to score debuffs with the 2AP Sap gloves. (essential at Supreme Jerk)

I am also trying out a psychopathic heavy weapon build just now. I'd say the early game is the biggest weakness because of the ammo cost, but still it's already my leading build in terms of kills and damage, before Darwin and CoT. Should only get better from here on out, will be an interesting race with the brawler.

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