Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

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patl
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Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by patl » June 23rd, 2018, 3:40 pm

Way back in 2012, I pledged $2500 to the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter campaign. (Have you seen my "MIT Class Ring"?)

Between then and the release, real life intervened, and I have not had much time for games.

But now I do! So I am looking for advice, especially on character creation, but really anything. If you will indulge me for a moment, I will explain the kind of player I am...

I played the original Wasteland in 1987. I have fond memories of sitting around my buddy's Commodore 64, exploring the world, unlocking its secrets, reducing some of its denizens to a "fine, red mist"... To be honest, I am a little disappointed Wasteland 2 does not come with a paragraph book.

Wasteland was the best computer game I ever played until -- full disclosure here -- Fallout. Not Fallout 2 or Fallout: Oblivion or whatever those children are releasing these days, but the original Tim Cain masterpiece. I still consider it the single greatest computer game of all time.

I liked a lot of things about Fallout, but I do not want to write a novel, so let me describe just a few.

I liked the feeling of being the main character in a good story, how well developed the world was, and how much fun it was to explore.

I liked how every mandatory quest had multiple solutions, not always involving a fight. My favorite character build was probably the "diplosniper". (I am expecting Wasteland 2 to be more combat-focused, but maybe I am in for a surprise?)

I liked how my character's attributes had... interesting... effects at extremes (e.g. INT 1 or LK 10). I liked how a generalist build kind of sucked, but several types of specialist were viable, fun, and even had significant side quests designed for them (e.g. the Thieves' Guild).

OK enough analogy by Fallout.

I am not looking for a Choose Your Own Adventure book, but I am also not looking to reload 50+ times just to get past each encounter. And I am not looking for a "realistic" experience spending all of my time just trying to survive in an irradiated desert.

I am a bit of a completionist, assuming interesting side quests; i.e. not dungeon crawls or FedEx deliveries, but good short stories in their own right. I like to talk my way out when that is an option.

Most of the character build guides I have glanced at seem to be targeted at min-maxing for a speed run on Supreme Jerk difficulty. As I hope the preceding makes clear, that is not what I am looking for.

If you have read this far, thank you, honestly.

Any suggestions?
Last edited by patl on June 24th, 2018, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gillsing
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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by Gillsing » June 23rd, 2018, 6:11 pm

Since attributes don't affect dialogues or skills, min-maxing them for combat is really the way to go as long as you can cover all the skills you'll want to use. Those stats are not for roleplaying, as that's what the skills are used for. I made one Ranger for killing, one for giving orders, one for wearing heavy armour, and one for handling hidden explosive traps. The two last ones are both geniuses, so I have plenty of skill points to play with there.

In Arizona it worked fine with having a single Ranger kill almost everything while the rest of the group stood around getting XP. In Los Angeles the enemies are faster and deadlier, and the random encounter areas feel a lot smaller and more disadvantageous. So the 'single killer Ranger strategy' seems to be failing me. So maybe don't do what I did, and make sure your entire team can handle themselves in a fight? Combat Initiative is particularly important, as that determines how often a character gets a turn. You don't want enemies to get two turns in a row while one or more of your Rangers only gets one turn, making it difficult for your Ranger(s) to avoid getting caught in positions that have gone from good to bad.

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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by kilobug » June 24th, 2018, 12:33 am

Hello,

Well, Wasteland 2 is a party-based game, not a single-player game like Fallout, that's probably the main difference. It does change both the way the game feel and the way it's played. In a party-based game, you should create specialized characters which complete each other.

Quest-wise, you will find, like in Fallout, several ways to resolve certain quests (with some amount of reactivity in other quests), including non-fighting (diplomatic and/or stealthly) solutions for some of them.

It is true that there few effects of attributes on skills, but still for replaying reasons I tend to give higher charisma to my diplomat/leader, higher intelligence to my medic/tech and higher strength to my grunt.

Difficulty-wise the game isn't too hard in the "Seasoned" level, and even in "Ranger" you've to be careful, but you can finish the game without minimaxing everything nor reloading 10x times every fight (but you will have to reload here and there).

Weapons-wise you should have at least one ranger with assault riffles, those are the most powerful weapons in the game (quite realistically) so it'll be much harder if you don't have any. I usually have 2 rangers with assault riffles.

Have fun !

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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by patl » June 24th, 2018, 3:56 pm

(Aside: How do I get my "Wasteland 2 BACKER" badge associated with my forum account?)

Thanks for the replies. So it sounds like I might enjoy playing a party like this:

Leader / Talker
Medic / Brain / Hacker / (?)Thief
Sniper
Tank

...and make sure the last two get Assault Rifles.

Then look for ways to scatter the useful miscellaneous skills around.

Cannot believe I am finally going to play this thing

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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by Drool » June 24th, 2018, 4:47 pm

patl wrote:
June 24th, 2018, 3:56 pm
...and make sure the last two get Assault Rifles.
If you really want to. My last playthrough was two melee characters, two snipers, a shotgun/energy weapon character, an SMG user, and a pistolero. My "tanks" were the melee characters (one blunt, one bladed) and my snipers were... snipers. As in sniper rifles.

I've only ever had one character in one playthrough use an AR. And even then, it was the energy weapon user's backup gun.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

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Gillsing
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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by Gillsing » June 24th, 2018, 8:26 pm

patl wrote:
June 24th, 2018, 3:56 pm
(Aside: How do I get my "Wasteland 2 BACKER" badge associated with my forum account?)
Possibly by using the same email for the forum account as you do for Kickstarter? I also think you may have to actively activate the badges and choose which ones to show. Possibly over at the backer portal? Maybe it moved to some other place by now? CrowdOx?
patl wrote:
June 24th, 2018, 3:56 pm
Leader / Talker
Medic / Brain / Hacker / (?)Thief
Sniper
Tank

...and make sure the last two get Assault Rifles.
If you by "tank" mean heavy armor I'd recommend the Thick-Skinned quirk, but due to slower movement and the +1 Armor from Self Defense perk (Bladed Weapons 3) it's usually not a good idea to use a rifle, since they get hit with a severe penalty to hit when adjacent to an enemy, which is a requirement for activating the Self Defense Perk. The two other perks for increasing armor would be Hardened (no requirements) and Reinforced Plating (Weaponsmithing 8). Armor that's equal to or lower than Penetration doesn't reduce damage at all, but for higher-than-Penetration Armor up to +6 the damage reduction is 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, and 100%. So at +6 a Ranger could be invulnerable to damage from melee and ballistic weapons, excluding special effects that ignore armor, such as bleeding, 'breaking' bones or poison.

I also wouldn't bother with an assault rifle for the sniper, assuming the sniper already uses a sniper rifle. So it would make more sense to me to have the first two use assault rifles rather than the last two.

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Mole204
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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by Mole204 » June 24th, 2018, 11:43 pm

Hacker doesn't have to be one of your early members, but one level somewhere might help in a pinch (or something I don't remember.) Most of the early fights are probably all goons, and maybe a few low-level robots for fun. Smashing might be less complicated than hacking for the early stages. There'l be enough near-death escapes anyway. If you last until Damonta, and take a certain story path, you can recruit Lexicanium, who's a great hacker. There's a number of characters to recruit throughout the game, but I forget if the others are any good at hacking. They each have their specialty.
Ol' Wasteland 1 player here, too. I thought it too bad that wl2 relied on chessmoving your players and not on the swift gun math of wl1. Eh, what can ya do.

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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by patl » June 26th, 2018, 10:34 am

Finally played a few hours. General feeling so far: Not sure how I would rate it as a game in its own right, but as a sequel to Wasteland, it's more than worthy.

OK I admit... I pushed the button on the Davy Crockett in the Citadel. Without saving first. I got mad briefly, then I could almost hear the devs laughing at me and started laughing too. Nice reminder that I am playing Wasteland.

I am on Normal ("Seasoned") difficulty. This seems to be about right for my taste. It was a little frustrating until I got the hang of the combat mechanics. Although the destroyed Ag Center was almost more annoying than fun.

My characters are around level 7-8, and I am finding myself wishing for more conversation skill. (Aside: Why did they have to break Speech into three? Makes it so expensive if you like to play chatty.) I will probably reload somewhat earlier to fix this. Just not before the Ag Center.

It is kind of interesting listening to characters tell me all about Cochise and Darwin and Finster and so on. My general reaction has been "I know; I was there".

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Re: Long-time fan, first-time player seeks advice

Post by Gillsing » June 26th, 2018, 10:52 am

If you start a new game you'd be able to import the characters as they were when you pressed the red button, so you could start with more levels. But it might be a good idea to spread your dialogue skills out so that each skill is handled by a different Ranger. That way they can each wear a different trinket that increases the skill they've got. Because there's no switching trinkets during dialogue, and there are dialogues that have checks for multiple different dialogue skills. And as you know now, it can be a bit tricky to make the skill points cover all the skill levels you'll want, so a +1 boost from a trinket can be very handy early on.

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