Is there any way to make handguns better?

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Vampiresbane
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Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Vampiresbane » May 29th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Better for damage? (Psychopath? Way of the Squeezins?)
Better pen?
Better use?

I'm trying to theorycraft a character that is the best possible gun user and I'm not sure if it's anything but lackluster.
Damage relies on turns and pen, but handguns don't have the pen. So only shoot soft targets? Not many soft targets late game.
Utility then? Just focus on shooting limbs or heads via Precision Strikes (Btw is there an official list of status effects from Precision Strikes?)

It's tough because I want a character with plenty of initiative so he gets lots of turns, but also a decent amount of AP to take multiple shots (for utility or damage).

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Gillsing
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Gillsing » May 29th, 2018, 4:12 pm

Precision Strike effects (new roll for every new attack, better roll leads to upgraded effect):

Head (Battering up the brain-box sure makes the world look different. In this confused state, ...)
1-75 Dazed ... they'll fight less effectively. ("Crashed" for robots)
76-95 Concussion ... they'll fight less effectively. ("Circuits Fried" for robots)
96+ Psychotic ... they won't know friend from foe.

Torso (Well-placed attacks have a put a chink in their armor. Protection's less effective when it's been riddled with holes.)
1-75 Scratched Armor/Hide -1 Armor
76-95 Damaged Armor/Hide -2 Armor
96+ Ruined Armor/Hide -4 Armor

Legs (Firing on the go-parts have made moving a no-go.)
1-75 Hobbled -0.6 Combat Speed
76-95 Staggered -0.9 Combat Speed
96+ Crippled -1.0 Combat Speed -3 Action Points (cancelled after one turn, back to full Combat Speed)

Arms (Your well-placed strike has reduced their ability to attack accurately.)
1-75 Shaky -35% chance to hit
76-95 Messed Up -50% chance to hit
96+ Ruined Weapon -50% chance to hit

Best Combat Initiative/Action Points optimization I can come up with:
C:4+4 L:1 A:9+1 S:2 S:10 I:1 C:1 8 AP CI:19 Perks: Tinker
Level 10: 9 AP CI 20 = 27 AP in 30 combat segments
Level 30: 10 AP CI 20 = 30 AP in 30 combat segments
Level 30 with Pair of Engagement Rings: 9 AP CI 23 = 38.57 AP in 30 combat segments
Level 50 with Choice: 11 AP CI 25 = 66 AP in 30 combat segments

Quirk: Brittle Bones for +2 AP (but I'd never be willing to sacrifice the Combat Speed for that)
Quirk: Psychopath (for better chance to hit after the first three hits - should make it easier to hit with Precision Strikes)
Quirk: Opportunist (for finishing off enemies after other Rangers have done a lot of damage to them with their 'proper' weapons that aren't peashooters)

I guess that a handgun can be a safer option than other weapons, because with the 3 AP handguns you can quickly use Precision Strikes to give the enemy a hefty penalty to attacks and also slow them down, and then take cover, which they might have trouble flanking because of their lower speed. Not sure how well that would work in practice compared to just a burst Precision Strike to the head, but it's the best I can come up with. I have noticed certain enemies missing almost every shot once they've got -50% chance to hit and their target is behind cover, but those machine gun bots might not be particularly good shots to begin with. Then again, without a whole slew of weapon mods for increased accuracy or a Leadership bonus, I guess -100% chance to hit from the cover plus Messed Up arms might actually be enough to reduce enemy hit chances to practically nothing. Unless they have SMGs and the Whack-A-Mole perk.

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Drool
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Drool » May 29th, 2018, 5:28 pm

Gillsing wrote: ↑
May 29th, 2018, 4:12 pm
Quirk: Opportunist (for finishing off enemies after other Rangers have done a lot of damage to them with their 'proper' weapons that aren't peashooters)
In my playthrough, I gave my pistol user Opportunist and found it very effective.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

Vampiresbane
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Vampiresbane » May 30th, 2018, 9:43 am

Big thank you Gillsing for posting that. I couldn't find an final list. Btw what's up with Ruined Weapon having the same -% to hit? Seems odd or overlooked by the devs.

You know Drool, Opportunist might be a really good idea. I could make the handgun a debuffer, but add Opportunist to help burn down low health enemies or bosses when the need arises. I really like that combination.

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Gillsing
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Gillsing » May 30th, 2018, 10:24 am

Well, Ruined Weapon destroys the weapon, with a small area explosion, as an earlier character of mine with the Free-For-All perk found out. So whichever weapon it was, it won't be doing any more attacks, which can be quite beneficial. I usually don't see that effect though, since it's rare, and I tend to want a chance to loot the weapons, so I almost never do Precision Strikes against the arms on targets that have weapons that I could loot. Which is most of the enemies with weapons.

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sear
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by sear » May 31st, 2018, 5:45 am

Gillsing wrote: ↑
May 29th, 2018, 4:12 pm
Precision Strike effects (new roll for every new attack, better roll leads to upgraded effect):
This is a pretty accurate breakdown, but one thing to note is that the chance of a better roll goes up as your weapon skill increases. I think it's something like +1% per skill level. So the "level 3" effects remain rare, but they're still much more common with a character who has maxed out a skill.

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Gillsing
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Re: Is there any way to make handguns better?

Post by Gillsing » November 12th, 2018, 5:22 pm

I have now tested how Combat Initiative works, and it's not one turn every 30-CI seconds or something like that. It turned out to be entirely proportional, so someone with CI 24 would act twice as often as someone with CI 12, not once every 30-24=6 seconds, while CI 12 would've acted once every 30-12=18 seconds, which would've made CI 24 act three times as often as CI 12. With this in mind, AP*CI would indicate the amount of Action Points over time, and thus my earlier 'best optimization' would end up slightly different:

C:6+4 L:1 A:7+1 S:2 S:10 I:1 C:1 9+3 AP CI:17+1 Perks: Tinkerer
Level 30: 11 AP CI 18 = 198 AP*CI
Level 30: 10 AP CI 21 = 210 AP*CI with Pair of Engagement Rings
Level 40: 12 AP CI 17 = 204 AP*CI (saving +1 Awareness for level 50)
Level 40: 11 AP CI 20 = 220 AP*CI with Pair of Engagement Rings (saving +1 Awareness for level 50)
Level 50: 12 AP CI 23 = 276 AP*CI with Choice (I have since found this trinket and thus discovered that it is available at level 30ish)

Less optimal alternative:
Level 50: 11 AP CI 25 = 275 AP*CI with Choice (Coordination 8 and Awareness 10 instead of the other way around)

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