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Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 5:22 am
by hshshs
Hi everyone,

I'm wondering what the best way is to handle Tori Robbinson in Angel Oracle during a "Let's keep up Ranger values and go for peaceful solutions" playthrough?

As I see it there's basically three approaches:
1. Support Tori in her rebellion (or at least let it happen)
2. Support Mr. Manners and alert him to Tori's plans
3. Support Mr. Manners and keep Tori's scheme secret from him.

Approach 1 is out of the question for me: Tori is a traitorous, scheming, cheating, murderous and disloyal opposition leader. I don't want her in charge of Angel Oracle.
Approach 2 seems easy: I can discuss Tori's plans with Mr. Manners and he will immediately see the light. In return, I can abandon the "Free Fletcher from his hideout" quest and get back my team member who was held hostage; I receive free access to the armory; and Mr Manners will agree on his own to reform the cruel Mannerite laws on capital punishment for minor transgressions / periodical human sacrifice. Also, you will receive the quest to go to the LA Aqueduct to finally deal with Tori, which gives you the toaster heating element and in return Mr Manners' cat litter.
Approach 3 seems more sophisticated as it requires HA or SA (or was it KA?) on skill level 10: You can then persuade Mr Manners to abort the impending execution. Tori will be unhappy, but, since her usurpation plans are still secret, will not turn hostile. So no aqueducts and no toaster heating element, meaning no cat litter (I realize there's plenty of other opportunities to retrieve enough litter). Also no free access to the armory.

Overall it looks like approach 2 is the most rewarding; which seems odd, as usually the approach with the most difficult skill check (here: approach 3) will yield the best results (e.g. reconciling the RNC tribes). Are there any short or long term advantages to approach 3? Or is the more straightforward approach 2 here really the best solution?

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 7:49 am
by Gillsing
Other than revealing Tori's plot I only get an SA or a KA option during the execution scene, and neither option actually aborts the execution, only makes Mr Manners insist that Fletcher has been given many chances to improve his manners. The only way for my Rangers to stop the execution is to mention Tori's plot. Which makes sense, since Mr Manners has his ulterior motive provided by that very plot. So I'm not sure how you get your third option?

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 9:14 am
by hshshs
Gillsing wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 7:49 am
Other than revealing Tori's plot I only get an SA or a KA option during the execution scene, and neither option actually aborts the execution, only makes Mr Manners insist that Fletcher has been given many chances to improve his manners. The only way for my Rangers to stop the execution is to mention Tori's plot. Which makes sense, since Mr Manners has his ulterior motive provided by that very plot. So I'm not sure how you get your third option?
Huh - that's interesting. Fletcher definitely remains alive when I use SA/KA during the execution scene. Mr Manners indeed has a short monologue about how Fletcher had a number of chances; and then calls off the execution and vows to change the Mannerites' grisly traditions of human sacrifice. The gathered Robbinsons start booing and hollering and then storm off. Their random chatter throughout the Oracle premises also changes to something along "Man, I was so pumped for the execution; it's a shame we didn't get it". Fletcher stands near the execution platform with his wife.
In your gameplay the execution still takes place? What KA/SA level did you have?

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 9:46 am
by Zombra
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 5:22 am
"Let's keep up Ranger values and go for peaceful solutions"
I think the two are mutually exclusive ... enforcing their will by force of arms is pretty much part of the charter.

I feel like to really do their job (to bring stability to the region), the Rangers have to take action to shut Robbinson down decisively. Being nice to both sides is just asking for a bigger, bloodier fight between them later.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 3rd, 2018, 2:53 pm
by Gillsing
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 9:14 am
In your gameplay the execution still takes place? What KA/SA level did you have?
KA 10, SA 8, but 10 when I'm testing that dialogue option. Maybe it's a Total Party Charisma thing? I have 25 when everyone but the dialogue skills are wearing their dog collars. Or maybe there was something else I should've done while I was in Angel Oracle, such as examining the steam tunnels before bringing Fletcher back, or even talking to him? Maybe then my Rangers would have a high enough standing for their words to be considered? I just didn't want to mess with the inevitable combat in the steam tunnels while I was trying out different approaches.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 5:37 am
by hshshs
Gillsing wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 2:53 pm
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 9:14 am
In your gameplay the execution still takes place? What KA/SA level did you have?
KA 10, SA 8, but 10 when I'm testing that dialogue option. Maybe it's a Total Party Charisma thing? I have 25 when everyone but the dialogue skills are wearing their dog collars. Or maybe there was something else I should've done while I was in Angel Oracle, such as examining the steam tunnels before bringing Fletcher back, or even talking to him? Maybe then my Rangers would have a high enough standing for their words to be considered? I just didn't want to mess with the inevitable combat in the steam tunnels while I was trying out different approaches.
I have a comparably low combined team charisma (definitely less than 25), so it's probably not that. I also didn't investigate the steam tunnels until later. Did you play in the Director's Cut? Did you convince Mr Manners beforehand to stop cannibalism? I delivered The Gooch to the hospital and talked to the doctor; Mr Manners accepted The Gooch's sickness as proof that the consumption of human flesh needs to be stopped. Maybe this is a requirement to stop his human sacrifices, too.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 6:09 am
by Gillsing
I did not manage to get anything out of the Gooch. Am I supposed to report him to the guards to get him delivered to the hospital? I did that once, and predictably he disappeared, but I don't know if I checked the hospital that time. I assumed he was delivered to their larder or something. So that's probably it then.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 6:15 am
by hshshs
Zombra wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 9:46 am
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 5:22 am
"Let's keep up Ranger values and go for peaceful solutions"
I think the two are mutually exclusive ... enforcing their will by force of arms is pretty much part of the charter.

I feel like to really do their job (to bring stability to the region), the Rangers have to take action to shut Robbinson down decisively. Being nice to both sides is just asking for a bigger, bloodier fight between them later.
Yes, that's a pretty good point. I refused to give the nuke to the Diamondback Militia in the Canyon / Temple of Titan for the same reason.

However, I replayed the Tori options and think I was mistaken: Revealing Tori's plan to Mr Manners gives you all the goodies I mentioned above EXCEPT that Mr Manners does NOT offer to stop the tradition of regular human sacrifices. He only does so if I stop the execution via the dialogue skill check. I think I confused the sacrifice thing with the Mannerites' cannibalism (which is likewise a disgusting tradition but separate from the human sacrifices).

So the outcomes (+ for desirable results and - for undesirable results) are as follows:

* Both cases:
+ Fletcher lives
+ Team member hostage is freed

* Reveal Tori's plan to Mr Manners
+ Free access to armory granted
+ Potential troublemaker Tori can be permanently removed from the equation
+ Access to Mr Manners' cat litter
- Mannerites keep human sacrifices / capital punishment for small infractions

* Talk Mr Manners out of the execution and keep Tori's plan secret
+ Mannerites stop human sacrifices
- No access to armory
- No punishment for Tori; she can lurk in the shadows to make her move later
- No access to Mr Manners' cat litter

Is this summary correct? If so, are there any long term consequences of my choice? Making the Mannerites stop their useless killings sounds like a worthy goal. I could live with forgoing the armory (although it has some pretty sweet gear, such as very effective trinkets and a G41); I could also do without the cat litter as there are alternative sources. So the only really relevant factor would be Tori herself. Does her survival come back to bite me or the (reformed) Mannerites later?

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 6:23 am
by hshshs
Gillsing wrote:
April 4th, 2018, 6:09 am
I did not manage to get anything out of the Gooch. Am I supposed to report him to the guards to get him delivered to the hospital? I did that once, and predictably he disappeared, but I don't know if I checked the hospital that time. I assumed he was delivered to their larder or something. So that's probably it then.
Hm, sounds like that could be the trigger indeed. I did the following: Report The Gooch to the guards; open the coolers and discover the human flesh; go to the hospital; talk to The Gooch (he stands near the "upper" wall, farthest from the entrance); talk to the doctor and discuss cannibalism (skill check here I believe); talk to Mr Manners. He stopped the cannibalism then; and when leaving the pressbooth, a radio message confirms that no more courtesy meat will be served.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 8:39 am
by Gillsing
hshshs wrote:
April 4th, 2018, 6:15 am
- Mannerites keep human sacrifices / capital punishment for small infractions
While the human sacrifices seem to serve a motivational purpose and not just a source of meat, I got the impression from Mr Manners that he would stop killing and eating his own people if the Rangers could find someone to sell beef to the Angel Oracle. Got some sort of trade letter or something to that effect. But evidently the woman in Cerritos doesn't have enough cows to even acknowledge such a suggestion, so I assume someone in Hollywood might have a access to lots of beef cows. If that is so, and if I haven't assumed too much regarding cannibalism/sacrifices, then it seems possible to stop the killings while still kill Tori.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 4th, 2018, 9:45 am
by Zombra
Correct, Gillsing. That's how it ended up in my game.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 6th, 2018, 1:45 am
by hshshs
Zombra wrote:
April 4th, 2018, 9:45 am
Correct, Gillsing. That's how it ended up in my game.
Hm, I just completed Angel Oracle on the "rat out Tori to Mr Manners" path: In my playthrough he stopped cannibalism because I proved with The Gooch's example that it will have harmful effects. But he did not vow to stop the summary executions / human sacrifices. Also, Fletcher is obviously saved, but Elizaveta told me that he's now banned from the Oracle premises.
On the other path (stopping the execution with KA / SA), Fletcher stayed on the premises with Elizaveta; in addition to Mr Manners stopping the execution traditions.
Maybe some prior side quest triggered my results being different from yours - I guess I'll be extra careful in a future playthrough to optimize the final quest results... :-)

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: September 30th, 2018, 7:42 pm
by MonkFoureaux
hshshs wrote:
April 4th, 2018, 6:15 am
Zombra wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 9:46 am
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 5:22 am
"Let's keep up Ranger values and go for peaceful solutions"
I think the two are mutually exclusive ... enforcing their will by force of arms is pretty much part of the charter.

I feel like to really do their job (to bring stability to the region), the Rangers have to take action to shut Robbinson down decisively. Being nice to both sides is just asking for a bigger, bloodier fight between them later.
Yes, that's a pretty good point. I refused to give the nuke to the Diamondback Militia in the Canyon / Temple of Titan for the same reason.

However, I replayed the Tori options and think I was mistaken: Revealing Tori's plan to Mr Manners gives you all the goodies I mentioned above EXCEPT that Mr Manners does NOT offer to stop the tradition of regular human sacrifices. He only does so if I stop the execution via the dialogue skill check. I think I confused the sacrifice thing with the Mannerites' cannibalism (which is likewise a disgusting tradition but separate from the human sacrifices).

So the outcomes (+ for desirable results and - for undesirable results) are as follows:

* Both cases:
+ Fletcher lives
+ Team member hostage is freed

* Reveal Tori's plan to Mr Manners
+ Free access to armory granted
+ Potential troublemaker Tori can be permanently removed from the equation
+ Access to Mr Manners' cat litter
- Mannerites keep human sacrifices / capital punishment for small infractions

* Talk Mr Manners out of the execution and keep Tori's plan secret
+ Mannerites stop human sacrifices
- No access to armory
- No punishment for Tori; she can lurk in the shadows to make her move later
- No access to Mr Manners' cat litter

Is this summary correct? If so, are there any long term consequences of my choice? Making the Mannerites stop their useless killings sounds like a worthy goal. I could live with forgoing the armory (although it has some pretty sweet gear, such as very effective trinkets and a G41); I could also do without the cat litter as there are alternative sources. So the only really relevant factor would be Tori herself. Does her survival come back to bite me or the (reformed) Mannerites later?
Sorry for openning up the case. But I found this searching in the foruns and I found a relatively different conclusion.
*I talked Mr Manners out of the execution and kept Tori's plan secret.
+ Mannerites stop human sacrifices - CHECK (made the hobo into hospital so I had proof of mand man disease AND used the trade meat solution)
+ DO had access to armory - CHECK
- No punishment for Tori; she can lurk in the shadows to make her move later - CHECK
- No access to Mr Manners' cat litter - CHECK
* Plus: Aqueduct appeared for me in the map for no reason. Toaster was there along with all the chests, but no enemies.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: November 17th, 2018, 7:08 pm
by Gillsing
hshshs wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 9:14 am
Gillsing wrote:
April 3rd, 2018, 7:49 am
Other than revealing Tori's plot I only get an SA or a KA option during the execution scene, and neither option actually aborts the execution, only makes Mr Manners insist that Fletcher has been given many chances to improve his manners. The only way for my Rangers to stop the execution is to mention Tori's plot. Which makes sense, since Mr Manners has his ulterior motive provided by that very plot. So I'm not sure how you get your third option?
Huh - that's interesting. Fletcher definitely remains alive when I use SA/KA during the execution scene.
Okay, this time Mr Manners stopped the execution with either one of the dialogue options. He said Fletcher would be exiled instead of executed though, whereas last time I think Fletcher was just set free.

Differences since last time are that I got the Gooch to the hospital, but never spoke to Mr Manners before the execution, and handled the Playa Del Rey and Baldwin Hills situation. Oh, and I also pulled up Slargos from the manure which made him say he'd let people know that the Rangers were good guys or something like that. I also found the gloves for Ethan White and gave the climbing boots to Sandra. And I solved the thievery situation by going into the steam tunnels, and got the denture paste for Mr Paladino. I think I did every little thing I could before speaking to Fletcher. So maybe that made my Rangers have good enough standing in Angel Oracle for Mr Manners to not just listen to their dialogue options, but also agree to them?

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 26th, 2020, 8:05 pm
by Onedown3togo
I am afraid I'm going to have to necro this thread because I just had a very freaky thing happen. I did a search and couldn't find this reported elsewhere (maybe not the correct search terms?)

I am on my third full playthrough of DC and was at the point in Angel Oracle where you either have to go after Fletcher or rat out Tori (Torri?) to Manners. I read above that if you went after Fletcher you don't get access to the Angel Oracle Armory so I decided to try both ways.

I saved then left my hostage (poor Ralphy) then made my way to Fletcher's Hideout. When I got there I found lots of mines and synths stooging around outside. I killed the latter then disarmed all of the mines and looted every container before talking to Fletcher. He of course agreed to come back. Unimpressed with the loot I saved there and reloaded the Angel Oracle save.

With that save loaded I went to Manners and dropped a dime on Tori. He sputtered and made his noises then the quest completed and I did not have to retreive Fletcher anymore. The loot from the armory was enough to convince me to go this route (my first laser sight).

Now here's where it starts to get strange. After getting the quest to gack Tori I left the Angel only to find a big black X to the right of the place. I checked my map and it was Fletcher's Hideout. Now in my previous playthroughs I always went the 'tell on Tori' route right off and never bothered to even talk to most of the conspirators. This time I talked to the wife and the poppy guy then shook down the dude under the water tower with an A$$ skill. That put Fletcher's Hideout on my map.

I killed Tori and party then decided to check out the Hideout since I'd never been there. Here's where it gets REALLY strange. I pop in, no synths, no Fletcher, all well and good. I disarm the mines again (wanted the grenades) then go at the containers. I was just starting in on that freaky 13% safe when a conversation bubbly pops up. It's a synth telling Fletcher to 'come out we have you surrounded' or words to that effect.

I freak out switch my safecracker's trinket back to a combat one and check my guns before stepping outside. There's no one there but the bubbles keep coming, 'you have five seconds' then 'were coming in'. I searched the entire grounds, nothing and no one.

I shake my head and go back to the safe. Since the percentage was so low I decided to quicksave before trying only to find out I couldn't. Both save and quick save were greyed out just like I was in combat. I finally had to exit to the wasteland to be allowed to save.

I came back in only to immediately get the conversation bubbles again only this time there was also Fletcher yelling for 'someone to save him' and a synth saying 'there's no one to save you'. Again there was no one there. I did this four or five times before realizing that shooting the gas cylinder opposite the safe on the OUTSIDE of the house would blow the safe open. On reentering the Hideout I got the conversation bubbles every time. Weird.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 26th, 2020, 8:06 pm
by Onedown3togo
deleted

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: April 27th, 2020, 10:58 am
by Helz
On three playthroughs I've been unable to find the perfect ending to this. The first time, I didn't turn in the Gooch because I thought he was just a crazy hobo. I stopped the execution at the last minute by turning in Tori, but I refused to hunt her down and kill her. Mr. Manners wasn't happy, but I figured he'd get over it once I finally fixed his toaster. Little did I know, I was locked out of Angel Oracle forever!

On the second playthrough, I turned in the Gooch, fixed the toaster, and did every other helpful quest, but it made no difference. I still had to turn in Tori to stop the execution and still got locked out when I refused to kill her.

The third time, I agreed to hunt Tori down but when I found the Robinson camp we left them alone after defusing all the mines. I'm not sure if failing to kill her will eventually be penalized, but for now we still have access to Angel Oracle. No armory access, but I guess this is as good as its going to get without allowing an innocent man to be murdered or becoming killers for hire.

Re: Angel Oracle - What to do with Tori Robbinson?

Posted: July 23rd, 2020, 12:42 pm
by davoker
I just wanted to comment that there is another alternative, in my first move I went to Fletcher's hideout and then agreed to kill Tori, access to armory, etc.

But in my next 2 games, I don't know very well what I did, but I didn't have access to go after Fletcher, he stayed in his hideout and didn't have a mission to go look for him, nor did he have a mark on the map of his hideout.

What happened:

- I ended up killing Tori.
- I fixed the toaster.
- I had access to the armory.
- Fletcher was free because he had escaped and there was no mission to retrieve him.
NOTE: Fletcher's wife doesn't say anything, she just says we'll never know where to find him.
- I recovered my fellow detainee, of course.

I'm not sure how I did it in those last 2 games, but this is how the story goes, Fletcher escapes and is free, Tori is dead and I have access to everything and in Angel Oracle I am "cool" xD