Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

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Dieu-Sama
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Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Dieu-Sama » October 22nd, 2015, 8:28 am

One of my Ranger is a combat medic with Energy Weapon as a combat skill to keep the scientist vibe, I even recruited Ralphy just to get the Glorious Gamma Ray Blaster energy weapon master race, at first I barely met any ennemy with conductive armor in Arizona except the robots in Damonta, but I thought "Hey, it's Arizona, wait 'til I reach California, I'll melt all those high armor rating cyborgs/bots/priests with ease !"

Now I fought every faction present in California : almost (90% i guess) nobody have an armor labelled as conductive (the only one I remember was O'Biggun or The Greek). Even the CotC, some f-ing CYBORGS are not conductive. Hell, I understood that even Dugan, A F-ING ROBOTS BOSS MADE OUT OF METAL WITH AN ARMOR RATING OF 10 ISN'T LABELLED AS CONDUCTIVE

Seriously inXile ?

SagaDC
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by SagaDC » October 22nd, 2015, 8:35 am

Yup. Unfortunately the whole conductive/non-conductive thing seems to be very inconsistently implemented. And honestly, even when you're attacking an enemy that's conductive, you're only doing damage that's about equal to that of a normal gun from the same tier.

Sadly, Energy Weapons are probably one of the weakest weapon categories now.

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sear
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by sear » October 22nd, 2015, 8:42 am

We just double checked in the editor and those enemies are flagged as conductive on their enemy templates. Are you sure they aren't showing that way?

Some late game enemies that are conductive:

Meson Cannon
Scorpitron
Dugan
Synths (not the standard COTC)
Worker Bots
Certain Leather Jerks with heavy armor

SagaDC
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by SagaDC » October 22nd, 2015, 8:44 am

I'm only just getting to California myself, so I haven't observed the enemies myself. I'm mostly acting on information given by other players on that count.

However, first-hand observation of the damage numbers on the weapons does seem to imply that energy weapons under-perform even against the enemies that they're supposedly optimized against. Their damage multiplier against conductive enemies only puts them on-par with non-energy weapons of the same tier, meaning that the player is going to be better off using non-energy weapons most of the time (with the rare exception of an enemy who has a very high armor rating).

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Dieu-Sama » October 22nd, 2015, 8:48 am

Worker bots are definetly not conductive. Don't meet yet others but still : If NO God's militia members/mannerites/robbinsons/REGULAR COTC (!!!!!!) are conductive, energy weapons are still moslty useless anyway . . .

COTC not conductive ? Seriously !!!!!!!!?????

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sear
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by sear » October 22nd, 2015, 9:08 am

Dieu-Sama wrote:Worker bots are definetly not conductive. Don't meet yet others but still : If NO God's militia members/mannerites/robbinsons/REGULAR COTC (!!!!!!) are conductive, energy weapons are still moslty useless anyway . . .

COTC not conductive ? Seriously !!!!!!!!?????
Image

I just took this screenshot. Are you not seeing the blue shield icons?

EDIT: I think I see what you mean and why you might think certain enemies aren't conductive. The blue shield only appears if you have an energy weapon equipped. This is because we have different feedback for different weapon types and armor penetration, and it changes per-character (so you know which enemies you can attack effectively at a glance).

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Dieu-Sama » October 22nd, 2015, 9:36 am

Ok just took a trip at long beach and they were indeed conductive, my bad.

But it doesn't solve the other issue : the fact that no regular CotC/God's militia/robbinson/mannerites are conductive :/

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Hazardo » October 22nd, 2015, 9:45 am

sear wrote:I think I see what you mean and why you might think certain enemies aren't conductive. The blue shield only appears if you have an energy weapon equipped. This is because we have different feedback for different weapon types and armor penetration, and it changes per-character (so you know which enemies you can attack effectively at a glance).
Hum, apologies for hijacking this thread a bit, but it's about a similar thing: could you implement some sort of indicator for being in and out of cover? Judging the angles is a bit difficult since the rules are not as clear cut as in XCOM (180 degree protection from the front).

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by luoshuigui » October 22nd, 2015, 11:03 am

most 10 armor human enemies are non-conductive, design overlook?

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by tylarth » October 22nd, 2015, 4:20 pm

Have done all of lower LA, and gotten to Hollywood for DC campaign so far. I have 2 energy users but they are really pretty weak. Have a gamma ray user, and still finding that it is the best energy weapon for damage, ion beamer is ok more due to the 2 shots at ap 4 so they are nice to plink on status effects. But AR + snipers do just aswell vs conductives as the energy generally, esp with filler perks in the latter part of game and high pen guns. But real awful problem with energy is vs non-conductives, they are really very poor even with the 3 perks invested to compensate. Additionally there are really too many very high armour foes with regular armour esp cotc, think after leather jerks all foes are AR8+ but vast majority are non-conductive.

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by PiPboy » October 22nd, 2015, 11:51 pm

I think a good way to make Energy Weapons useful again is to make them Cause a Stun Effect chance on all enemies without Armor.
So at least it can be used on Animals + Monsters + robots.
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Dieu-Sama » October 23rd, 2015, 12:19 am

Or simply have a bit more opponents who are conductive

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Blind Ryan
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Blind Ryan » October 23rd, 2015, 3:29 am

I like the stun idea. Make it a perk!

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Robo_lover3396 » October 23rd, 2015, 4:21 am

Blind Ryan wrote:I like the stun idea. Make it a perk!
Perk is also great but other weapons are good enough without perks. (except heavy weapons)
So i thinks their basic performance need to be higher.

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Blind Ryan
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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Blind Ryan » October 23rd, 2015, 4:29 am

I put my energy weapon as a sidearm to my sniper. Punches through the holes his rifle doesn't.

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by MrMoe » October 23rd, 2015, 4:57 am

I'm cleaning up Demonta atm., my science guy with energy weapon and roboticist perk out damages everyone, except maybe the hand-to-hand gal when shes on a crit. streak.

And his combat stats are far from optimal.

The balance may not be perfect, but pretty good (on 2nd highest difficulty)

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by PizzaSHARK » October 23rd, 2015, 9:48 am

sear wrote:We just double checked in the editor and those enemies are flagged as conductive on their enemy templates. Are you sure they aren't showing that way?

Some late game enemies that are conductive:

Meson Cannon
Scorpitron
Dugan
Synths (not the standard COTC)
Worker Bots
Certain Leather Jerks with heavy armor
I feel like there need to be a LOT more conductive enemies across the board. Energy weapons are incredibly weak in Arizona because even the toughest guys you run across aren't wearing conductive armor, even on SJ... with the obvious exception of the robots, but aside from Damonta, they're pretty much entirely optional. If I'm fighting a dude in Highpool and he's got 5 armor and we're talking like lvl 3-6 characters... man, that dude's clearly wearing Goat Hide Armor (and probably has Hardened or some other passive giving him free armor), and that shit's conductive. Are we supposed to believe a bunch of pissant raiders can afford tier 5 light armor that isn't even available until you get to California? Not even the random roaming vendor sells better than, what, +3 light armor?

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by PizzaSHARK » October 23rd, 2015, 9:50 am

Blind Ryan wrote:I put my energy weapon as a sidearm to my sniper. Punches through the holes his rifle doesn't.
Really bad choice. Snipers have the highest inherent armor pen of any weapon class, it's very rare that you'll find a conductive enemy that your sniper can't punch through, especially if you shred their armor with a rifleman or the dude plinking people with a pistol.

EWs make good sidearms for shotgunners, SMGs, or pistols, who might have issues penetrating armor even with armor shreds. They also make a possible sidearm for a melee character in the event they don't want to get close to an enemy (like a Slicerdicer that's about to go boom.)

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by Dieu-Sama » October 23rd, 2015, 10:22 am

MrMoe wrote:I'm cleaning up Demonta atm., my science guy with energy weapon and roboticist perk out damages everyone, except maybe the hand-to-hand gal when shes on a crit. streak.

And his combat stats are far from optimal.

The balance may not be perfect, but pretty good (on 2nd highest difficulty)
Enjoy it, t'will be one of the ONLY moment he will be useful in the entire game

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Re: Energy Weapons are utterly useless in DC

Post by arcana75 » October 23rd, 2015, 9:19 pm

I too find EWs terrible. Other than roleplaying, why bother investing in a weapon skill that becomes semi-good in LA, when I can invest in nearly any other skill and be useful throughout the game? I fought the Dugan robots using all ballistic weapons and didn't really have an issue, no one went down, and the same weapon skills took me through AZ.

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