Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

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frozyx
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by frozyx » October 7th, 2014, 11:07 am

Well, leadership is super important imo, first of all to tame your otherwise suiciding NPCs, esp. Scotchmo. Thats why try to get leadership to 6 asap (also for VC, both have 30% rogue chance). And the leadership radius from 3 CHR is already good enough. I made a screenie once, showing it. Gonna post it later (its on my desktop computer).

Regarding Pizepi: shes a good char, definitely. But you can also see what you get from your Gamma Ray when you hand it to a 20 CI char: basically 66% more firepower from it. And you know what an impact that weapon has when you get it. It can single handedly win certain scenarios, like those you mentioned. And it gets better with every extra action you get with her, i.e. with raising CI.

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frozyx
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by frozyx » October 7th, 2014, 11:09 am

ZonkerBrainless wrote:Angel Oracle is a very -ass skill heavy location. You miss out on a lot of stuff there. As a consequence of certain quest outcomes becoming unachievable, you also lose a bunch of toaster quests (although if you know this ahead of time you can just finish the toaster quests first).

That's my understanding anyway. Maybe I'm wrong.
Ye, i plan on bringing all the toaster items to Oracle. And i dont even mind getting different outcomes this time. I did a very diplomatic playthrough on my 1st time there. So i ma really up to just shooting my way through the wasteland now ;) I just hope i dont miss too many useful (combat) items.

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frozyx
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by frozyx » October 7th, 2014, 11:30 am

The leadership radius for a 3 CHR leader with 4 in leadership (dunno if that affects the radius):

Image

I drew the supposed radius in. You can figure that out by seeing who is affected by LS and who is not from the buffs over the char pictures.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Tyraforce » October 7th, 2014, 12:11 pm

I was so waiting for this and this damn frozyx spammed so hard I have to post on 2nd page ;)
The only thing I have to add is I wouldn't go for STR under 4 unless you have a lot of mules or enjoy spending a lot of time moving things from inventory to inventory. 4 STR also make sense from hardcore perspective.

Too bad this level of optimisation kinda breaks the game and we have to create our own challenges to enjoy the game. Great guide. Good luck with the ironman (which reminds me I need to play some X-com Impossible Ironman again...).

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by CitizenM » October 7th, 2014, 12:45 pm

Just finished reading the whole guide. Can't say I'm on board playing the game to "maximize stat performance" of each character, especially since I'm not really a gamer that likes to replay games on maximum difficulty (except perhaps Left 4 Dead 2 co-op on Expert). But your guide is very detailed, in-depth and has provided an understanding of the Wasteland 2 game mechanics that is lacking in anything official I've read. This truly educates me about the CLASSIC system and how to build not only better characters, but more importantly, optimized versions of the type of character I want to play.

I'm looking forward to reading your other two guides, which I'm sure have a wealth of information. Thank you so much for the time, research and effort put into these. As a volunteer website operator, I know well how much this kind of freely shared work needs to be recognized and appreciated. Bravo to you for your guides!
Old School Wasteland and Fallout fan

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Shining Hector » October 7th, 2014, 5:42 pm

I'm also coming around to the idea of a 3 CHR leader using energy weapons. My new optimal leader build would be 2 1 6 2 10 4 3, start with leadership and smg, branch into EW midgame. 16 CI starting which goes to 20 at level 40, SMG is plenty strong enough in the early game until GRB, works well with 8 AP, and takes the ammo strain off your assault rifles. You can also keep it as a backup for the rest of the game for enemies with low armor. SMG bullets are cheap, and you find so many you might not need to buy any at all. By the time you get the GRB, the leader will have 18 CI and be a far superior candidate for the GRB than Pizepi who starts at 11 CI. Just give her a pulse rifle and call it a day if you really want her on your team, she'll still outdamage most other NPC's. Honestly she'd be a perfect AR user and isn't really optimized for EW, it's almost too bad that she's one of the NPC's to easily get 10 AP.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by ehrgeix » October 8th, 2014, 4:43 am

frozyx wrote:The leadership radius for a 3 CHR leader with 4 in leadership (dunno if that affects the radius):

Image

I drew the supposed radius in. You can figure that out by seeing who is affected by LS and who is not from the buffs over the char pictures.
Wow, thanks. Yeah, I don't think more than 3 Charisma is required.

Also, thanks everyone that left kind words. =)

re: Hector - I guess you could level ARs on Pizepi if you abandoned Smart Ass. She'd be pretty weak through Arizona, though. But uh, really solid with Engagement Rings - like 9 AP 16 CI at 30. Just 3 CI behind a "real" character. (If only we had an Asagi NPC, dood).

Also, I kind of like the idea of a SMG -> EW leader, but I always find skills too restrictive to really have two weapon skills on one character, unless you just mean like r3 SMG.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Leonard DeVir » October 8th, 2014, 7:54 am

Very nice read.

Allthough I never minmax in my RPGs its good to know a few of that basic game mechanics nobody bothered to explain.

May I ask how you determined the armor resistance values? And would you say that armor is usefull in LA? Most enemies penetrate it anyway, and as far as Ive seen, you gain no benefit whatsoever from armor in that case.

On leadership: with a few rough tests I determined a rough "formula": radius = 1 base tile + 1 tile/charisma. So if you look at that picture, your CHA 3 dude approx. has a 4 tile radius. May not be 100% accurate, but its good enough to determine if its worth it.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Shining Hector » October 8th, 2014, 10:53 am

ehrgeix wrote:re: Hector - I guess you could level ARs on Pizepi if you abandoned Smart Ass. She'd be pretty weak through Arizona, though. But uh, really solid with Engagement Rings - like 9 AP 16 CI at 30. Just 3 CI behind a "real" character. (If only we had an Asagi NPC, dood).

Also, I kind of like the idea of a SMG -> EW leader, but I always find skills too restrictive to really have two weapon skills on one character, unless you just mean like r3 SMG.
Truthfully it's not a huge sacrifice. At 4 int it takes 2 levels to get 3 skill, 6 levels to get 6 skill, 12 levels to get 9 skill, 15 levels to get 10 skill. You can probably stop SMG at 6 if you're just using it as a backup for California. EW also doesn't need to be 10, just stop when bursts get 100%. Pick a 4th skill that doesn't really need to be maxed early like hard ass or surgery and you're good to go.

SMG and EW are also perfect complements to each other, as each one is very poor against certain enemies, which just so happens to be what the other one is excellent against. Even the GRB isn't good against everything, a backup SMG covers that.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Bones » October 8th, 2014, 12:03 pm

Leonard DeVir wrote: May I ask how you determined the armor resistance values? And would you say that armor is usefull in LA? Most enemies penetrate it anyway, and as far as Ive seen, you gain no benefit whatsoever from armor in that case.
There are pretty useless in supreme jerk difficulty. Shotgun sprayer can do 200-400 burst damage against power armor, Explosives ignore armor anyway and you are doomed if they use energy weapons.

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ehrgeix
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by ehrgeix » October 9th, 2014, 1:33 am

Leonard DeVir wrote:Very nice read.

Allthough I never minmax in my RPGs its good to know a few of that basic game mechanics nobody bothered to explain.

May I ask how you determined the armor resistance values? And would you say that armor is usefull in LA? Most enemies penetrate it anyway, and as far as Ive seen, you gain no benefit whatsoever from armor in that case.

On leadership: with a few rough tests I determined a rough "formula": radius = 1 base tile + 1 tile/charisma. So if you look at that picture, your CHA 3 dude approx. has a 4 tile radius. May not be 100% accurate, but its good enough to determine if its worth it.
Damirius actually picked up the armor values and posted them here: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9090

I can't vouch for the code being accurate, but I don't see why it would not be, and it squares with my observations in game.

I'm not sure about armor in LA. Power Armor seems definitely bad (Combat Speed is important), and any armor is bad vs Energy Weapon things. I heard people suggesting Tac Vests because they don't get exploded by Energy Weapons (???), but I'm also not sure they actually do anything vs average enemies. It's certainly a lot less useful than in Arizona.

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frozyx
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by frozyx » October 9th, 2014, 2:44 am

Tac Vests dont do anything for large parts of LA. You rather run completely naked and spare the weight. Power Armor is alright. Ofc you lose speed, but you will get to the point where you just stand around and shoot anything with your AR HS bursts. And then it wont matter anymore.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Larsen » October 9th, 2014, 3:51 am

frozyx wrote:The leadership radius for a 3 CHR leader with 4 in leadership (dunno if that affects the radius):

Image

I drew the supposed radius in. You can figure that out by seeing who is affected by LS and who is not from the buffs over the char pictures.
You can mouse over the leadership icon on the carrier and it'll show the actual radius, like when you activate Perception.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Cipher » October 10th, 2014, 2:42 am

http://it.tinypic.com/r/2ykibll/8 this is what I get when i click your links . Also I still didn't fully understand what this thing does. Memorizing rangers into your pc so you can choose them along premade rangers ? Boosting their stats deliberatly? ty

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by nidark » October 10th, 2014, 2:49 am

Shining Hector wrote:
ehrgeix wrote:re: Hector - I guess you could level ARs on Pizepi if you abandoned Smart Ass. She'd be pretty weak through Arizona, though. But uh, really solid with Engagement Rings - like 9 AP 16 CI at 30. Just 3 CI behind a "real" character. (If only we had an Asagi NPC, dood).

Also, I kind of like the idea of a SMG -> EW leader, but I always find skills too restrictive to really have two weapon skills on one character, unless you just mean like r3 SMG.
Truthfully it's not a huge sacrifice. At 4 int it takes 2 levels to get 3 skill, 6 levels to get 6 skill, 12 levels to get 9 skill, 15 levels to get 10 skill. You can probably stop SMG at 6 if you're just using it as a backup for California. EW also doesn't need to be 10, just stop when bursts get 100%. Pick a 4th skill that doesn't really need to be maxed early like hard ass or surgery and you're good to go.

SMG and EW are also perfect complements to each other, as each one is very poor against certain enemies, which just so happens to be what the other one is excellent against. Even the GRB isn't good against everything, a backup SMG covers that.
I had the same dilema .. I am running a Sniper3-10/EW 0-10 as a leader with Leadership 2-9 and Backup Medic 0-1
Details here: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10081&p=131178#p131178

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by ehrgeix » October 10th, 2014, 3:11 am

Sniper Rifles are bad in the current game - not sure why you're running one in a party you're trying to get maximum damage out of? EWs/SMGs combined is... it feels inefficient and I don't really like it, but I'm pretty sure it's worth doing at this point. I would not put many points into SMGs though - just like r3? for Arizona pre-GRB. Threshhold isn't really a problem from then on (Damonta, Prison has some heavy gunners, and pretty much everything in CA is fine).

EWs actually does need to be 10 for GRB bursts to be at 100% in Arizona (it has a -20 penalty), could skip 100% there and keep it at 9 then get a laser sight in California, but this is probably not worth it.

Edit: Also, I just spent some time working on the leader/skill mule section of the OP. Basically I rolled all of the Pizepi discussion from edits/in thread into sensible (I think?) suggestions on what kind of leader you should run.

Edit #2: Clarity on the SRs are bad comment. I mean, they deal half~ the damage of ARs and maybe have 5m~ or so extra range that matters in 0% of combats because you usually open with a volley from your entire party. Like... there's just no reason to use them. Exact damage ranges are in the first article of these three.

Edit #3:
Cipher wrote:http://it.tinypic.com/r/2ykibll/8 this is what I get when i click your links . Also I still didn't fully understand what this thing does. Memorizing rangers into your pc so you can choose them along premade rangers ? Boosting their stats deliberatly? ty
I assume this was in the wrong thread?

nidark
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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by nidark » October 10th, 2014, 4:36 am

You are right about SR, the damage is not even close to AR.
I might just use go EW direct without SR ... and use explosives and dancing moves until i get the first EW weapon.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Alewalek » November 3rd, 2015, 4:33 am

Not sure did you play DC, if yes any thought and changes on this builds?

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by cpmartins » November 3rd, 2015, 9:12 am

That's some grade A autism right here, and don't get me wrong, It's a compliment. Thanks for this.

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Re: Building a Better Ranger: Ranged Character Optimization

Post by Alewalek » November 3rd, 2015, 10:11 am

You talking to me. I just refreshed the subject due to DC beeing realised.

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