I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

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Havelok_
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I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Havelok_ » June 17th, 2016, 11:01 pm

So far we have:

A human with glowy tattoos
A human with with probabilistic multiple personality disorder
A human with a sulky attitude
Lando Calrissian
A human possessed by a nano swarm

Where are the visitants!? Numenera is chock full of exotic options for characters. We could have robot companions, rock-person companions, Mutant companions, one-eyed green plant alien companions... I could go on.

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 18th, 2016, 5:57 am

Havelok_ wrote:So far we have:

A human with glowy tattoos
A human with with probabilistic multiple personality disorder
A human with a sulky attitude
Lando Calrissian
A human possessed by a nano swarm

Where are the visitants!? Numenera is chock full of exotic options for characters. We could have robot companions, rock-person companions, Mutant companions, one-eyed green plant alien companions... I could go on.
I'd love to see a Varjellen Companion at least. Not only is Numenera full of various races, but the companions from PST all from different races. None of them were human.
I'm really hoping that the Varjellen who established the Order of Truth turns out to be a Cast off and a possible companion.

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Sithwist » June 18th, 2016, 8:11 am

Havelok_ wrote:So far we have:

A human with glowy tattoos
A human with with probabilistic multiple personality disorder
A human with a sulky attitude
Lando Calrissian
A human possessed by a nano swarm

Where are the visitants!? Numenera is chock full of exotic options for characters. We could have robot companions, rock-person companions, Mutant companions, one-eyed green plant alien companions... I could go on.
I was surprised to see so many humans too. But one of the remaining companions is supposed to be a numenera, 'a changing ball of goo', so that's something.
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Aramintai
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Aramintai » June 19th, 2016, 1:13 am

Sithwist wrote: I was surprised to see so many humans too. But one of the remaining companions is supposed to be a numenera, 'a changing ball of goo', so that's something.
Yes, I'm waiting for this one more than most. I hope devs have not scrapped this companion. And I hope we can meet all of them relatively early in the game. Too bad this game, unlike PS:T, doesn't have 6 slots in the party.

And I agree - T:TON has too many humans. There are many other races living in the Ninth World, but somehow devs chose the most boring route. And since we'll be getting around 8 companions chances of getting someone way out of the ordinary are waning. From what we've seen they don't even remotely stand close to PS:T crazy cast of companions.
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anonymous6059
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 19th, 2016, 3:09 am

Aramintai wrote: I hope we can meet all of them relatively early in the game.
I disagree with this specific point. Earlier I'd advanced the notion of hidden characters which can be unlocked through certain legacies (well I really went on a rant about it to be honest). TToN should have a decent amount of replay value. Would it not be fascinating to find slightly different looking characters on your 2nd or 3rd play through? Perhaps finding certain characters earlier while others later based on a prior game's legacy? Maybe even the option to select which characters find you initially. I personally miss unlocking hidden material after completing a game. It adds a great deal of replay value for me. I do not care though to have all the characters found early on. It would be superficial and overwhelming.

To summarize I would only suggest what you're saying as a option that is available upon completion of the game.

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Homer Morisson
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Homer Morisson » June 19th, 2016, 3:55 am

anonymous6059 wrote:
Aramintai wrote: I hope we can meet all of them relatively early in the game.
I disagree with this specific point. Earlier I'd advanced the notion of hidden characters which can be unlocked through certain legacies (well I really went on a rant about it to be honest). TToN should have a decent amount of replay value. Would it not be fascinating to find slightly different looking characters on your 2nd or 3rd play through? Perhaps finding certain characters earlier while others later based on a prior game's legacy? Maybe even the option to select which characters find you initially. I personally miss unlocking hidden material after completing a game. It adds a great deal of replay value for me. I do not care though to have all the characters found early on. It would be superficial and overwhelming.

To summarize I would only suggest what you're saying as a option that is available upon completion of the game.
I agree that I wouldn't want all of them piled on me right from the beginning, and I have to add that I already feel like we're being presented with too many companions too quickly in Sagus Cliffs; I hardly gotten to know the first two when I am offered three more.

Maybe this has been scaled up for the beta for testing purposes, but I'd like to see them scale it (back?) down for the final... I'd rather be forced to have to use a companion I learned to hate through his behaviour/world view for some time until I can finally kick them out and replace them than never even learning about why I might hate them because they became redundant five minutes after meeting them.
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by kilobug » June 19th, 2016, 3:56 am

anonymous6059 wrote:Earlier I'd advanced the notion of hidden characters which can be unlocked through certain legacies (well I really went on a rant about it to be honest). TToN should have a decent amount of replay value. Would it not be fascinating to find slightly different looking characters on your 2nd or 3rd play through? Perhaps finding certain characters earlier while others later based on a prior game's legacy?
I strongly oppose that in TTON. That kind of things is all fine in a combat-oriented game, where meta-gaming plays an important. But like for achievements, in a story-based game, that kind of meta-gaming adds a whole layer that distract the player from the story/world and completely breaks the immersion. TTON should have high replay values because of different ways to solve quests, different abilities your LCO can have, different "legacies" you build, but not at all through meta-gaming, each game of TTON should be totally self-contained.

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 19th, 2016, 4:13 am

kilobug wrote:
anonymous6059 wrote:Earlier I'd advanced the notion of hidden characters which can be unlocked through certain legacies (well I really went on a rant about it to be honest). TToN should have a decent amount of replay value. Would it not be fascinating to find slightly different looking characters on your 2nd or 3rd play through? Perhaps finding certain characters earlier while others later based on a prior game's legacy?
I strongly oppose that in TTON. That kind of things is all fine in a combat-oriented game, where meta-gaming plays an important. But like for achievements, in a story-based game, that kind of meta-gaming adds a whole layer that distract the player from the story/world and completely breaks the immersion. TTON should have high replay values because of different ways to solve quests, different abilities your LCO can have, different "legacies" you build, but not at all through meta-gaming, each game of TTON should be totally self-contained.
hmmm, well I didn't mean that it would be forced on the next game file. I meant more like it would be a new option that you gained by accomplishing certain feats or legacies. It would only allow for you to experience the game in a slightly nuanced way. An example would be a new call-out that a companion says, being able to make The Specter hold a Easter basket (similar to the Morte Easter egg in PST). Being able to give a Companion a Varjellen body. A way to customize companions for example. You would have the option to rearrange the placement of certain companions. It's just options to experience the game in a different way. I see what you mean though and perhaps it would be meta-gaming, but I don't think it would be so bad.

Either way, I think I'm getting off topic. I was simply suggesting a different way to get companion orders to vary because I don't think you should meet all of them at once or one right after another either. It would go against the natural way you would meet characters in a story. I was only depositing another possible way of satisfying the same desire. Do you have another suggestion that would solve the issue?

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Aramintai » June 19th, 2016, 6:39 am

anonymous6059 wrote:
Aramintai wrote: I hope we can meet all of them relatively early in the game.
I disagree with this specific point.
The point of early meeting of characters is so that players can choose freely and without bias with whom they wanna complete the game. Many devs nowadays agree that putting companions late in the game is not really a good design choice, because players by that time would have already chosen a party from the early game and got attached to them. They would not as easily switch to other companions late in the game, so more often than not those late game companions are left unused. This is especially important in small party games like T:TON where there are only 3 slots for companions.

Another point is that when you meet a late companion you can't help but wonder that he's not as developed as early ones because usually from the start companions in RPGs have banters with each other, with protagonist, with npcs in areas and have personal quests that may span the whole game. Cramming all that into late portion of the game is just not a good game design choice. So that's why I'm hoping I can see all of them relatively early in the game. 6 of them are already known and early so I've high hopes that the last 2(?) are somewhere not far as well.
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 19th, 2016, 6:56 am

Aramintai wrote:
anonymous6059 wrote:
Aramintai wrote: I hope we can meet all of them relatively early in the game.
I disagree with this specific point.
The point of early meeting of characters is so that players can choose freely and without bias with whom they wanna complete the game. Many devs nowadays agree that putting companions late in the game is not really a good design choice, because players by that time would have already chosen a party from the early game and got attached to them. They would not as easily switch to other companions late in the game, so more often than not those late game companions are left unused. This is especially important in small party games like T:TON where there are only 3 slots for companions.

Another point is that when you meet a late companion you can't help but wonder that he's not as developed as early ones because usually from the start companions in RPGs have banters with each other, with protagonist, with npcs in areas and have personal quests that may span the whole game. Cramming all that into late portion of the game is just not a good game design choice. So that's why I'm hoping I can see all of them relatively early in the game. 6 of them are already known and early so I've high hopes that the last 2(?) are somewhere not far as well.
Still can't agree with this idea. You would be messing with the natural way that you meet characters in a novel or a movie by cramming them all together. I do see the dilemma though so let me make another suggestion. What if you could somehow reach the latter companions in a further play through by switching the order that some quest are done? For example, say you join the aeon priest and become a blue tide heavy player. Companion B might not be reachable early on, but Companion A would be. In another playthrough you can join a cult and get Companion B early on, but Companion A would take longer. That might be a way to make characters met latter in the story more enjoyable in future playthroughs of the game. On the first run you'd just get whoever first, second, third, and fourth based on your natural choices. On a later playthrough you could adjust your tide to fit the team you hope to make. This would be nice because each time you played the order of party members would vary based on your choices. Another way to solve this is to just make all companions reachable. This way if you know where Companion B is located you could just skip ahead in the story solving his/her specific quest and acquire them. Then you could return back to the natural order of the story.

Also, I wonder if you will *only* have 4 party members. Wasteland 2 also had 4 party members with up to two additional temporary members.

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Aramintai » June 19th, 2016, 7:30 am

No matter what you suggest I'm pretty sure devs have already placed them in specific spots. We can all just speak our preferences at this point.

For me it seems that this game will have those game spanning companion side stories and I've already picked my favorites whom I'll definitely take until the end to see how they will unfold. I may or may not switch to other companions if there will be some specific quests that are better solved with them, but this doesn't look like a Dragon Age type of game with vast array of companions who sit in your camp and bring you up to speed about their personal problems, and whom you simply switch from area to area. And this is not a game like Wasteland where core party were simply stat numbers with pictures and companions had rudimentary story.
This looks more like those old IE games where if you remove the companion he will move on to do his business and may not even be thrilled to see you again, not to mention his personal quest may be lost. And if this is indeed so then I'd want to get companions I want as early as possible to experience fully all of their banters and story.
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 19th, 2016, 8:30 am

Aramintai wrote:No matter what you suggest I'm pretty sure devs have already placed them in specific spots. We can all just speak our preferences at this point.

For me it seems that this game will have those game spanning companion side stories and I've already picked my favorites whom I'll definitely take until the end to see how they will unfold. I may or may not switch to other companions if there will be some specific quests that are better solved with them, but this doesn't look like a Dragon Age type of game with vast array of companions who sit in your camp and bring you up to speed about their personal problems, and whom you simply switch from area to area. And this is not a game like Wasteland where core party were simply stat numbers with pictures and companions had rudimentary story.
This looks more like those old IE games where if you remove the companion he will move on to do his business and may not even be thrilled to see you again, not to mention his personal quest may be lost. And if this is indeed so then I'd want to get companions I want as early as possible to experience fully all of their banters and story.
I'm sure you're right and that our discussion has little to no relevance on the state of the game. The developers do sometimes glance in and give me the impression that they care. So I like to return the jester by pretending that these discussions are important maybe even game changing. ;)

Anyway, yeah everything you're saying makes sense. I still just wouldn't want to play the game the way you're suggesting. It would take all the replay value out of it for me. I'd rather have to replay the whole game and perform some specific quest or sequence to obtain the "best" companions. Having dibs on character from the start removes any desire to see the game in different ways. By experiencing all the banter and side quest in one shot you shorten the shelf life of the game. Which I know isn't a big deal nowadays where games come and go quickly.

I hate mentioning this dreadful game, but I once made the horrible decision to purchase Sword Coast Legends. Honestly it's not the worst game in the world. They just cut a few corners and tried to make things more action CRPG, fast paced, accessible, and in the end they made a bad game that no one wanted. One of the worst decisions they made in my opinion is what you're suggesting. You could access any of the Player characters early on which feels cliche and rushed. They even had a crystal communication device that allowed you to hear all the banter when they weren't in your party. You could complete all the side quest in a single run of the game. It really just felt cheap and artificial to me.

I still don't see why this game's companions can't be like Wasteland 2. Some companions might be temporary, unless it was stated somewhere it absolutely wasn't happening. It would make a lot of sense to expect the game to resemble the last game they made in a few ways. That doesn't mean it will have temporary characters. I just wouldn't rule it out either.

In the end i think the difference between us just boils down to taste perhaps. To get back on topic: WHERE THE HECK IS MY VARGELLEN COMPANION!!!

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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Aramintai » June 19th, 2016, 8:46 am

anonymous6059 wrote: Anyway, yeah everything you're saying makes sense. I still just wouldn't want to play the game the way you're suggesting. It would take all the replay value out of it for me. I'd rather have to replay the whole game and perform some specific quest or sequence to obtain the "best" companions. Having dibs on character from the start removes any desire to see the game in different ways. By experiencing all the banter and side quest in one shot you shorten the shelf life of the game. Which I know isn't a big deal nowadays where games come and go quickly.
Well, perhaps that is why this game has only 3 companions slots - so that we can't take all the companions into the party in one go. But another thing to keep in mind is that majority of players don't replay games, especially story driven ones like this. So for them no matter how much replay value devs are gonna muster it won't matter. I've read somewhere earlier that they're content with players not seeing 30% of the game in one playthrough.
So most likely some companions will be more popular than the rest, and how early and accessible they'll be will be one of the major deciding factors.

Personally, I'll probably replay it a few times but after seeing what all the companions have I'll settle on a favorite party, as usual. I'm not one of those players who tries all sorts of combinations of classes and parties just for fun, I'm someone who settles on a specific class for the protagonist and specific party based on their personalities and story.
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by anonymous6059 » June 23rd, 2016, 6:20 am

Aramintai wrote:
anonymous6059 wrote: Anyway, yeah everything you're saying makes sense. I still just wouldn't want to play the game the way you're suggesting. It would take all the replay value out of it for me. I'd rather have to replay the whole game and perform some specific quest or sequence to obtain the "best" companions. Having dibs on character from the start removes any desire to see the game in different ways. By experiencing all the banter and side quest in one shot you shorten the shelf life of the game. Which I know isn't a big deal nowadays where games come and go quickly.
Well, perhaps that is why this game has only 3 companions slots - so that we can't take all the companions into the party in one go. But another thing to keep in mind is that majority of players don't replay games, especially story driven ones like this. So for them no matter how much replay value devs are gonna muster it won't matter. I've read somewhere earlier that they're content with players not seeing 30% of the game in one playthrough.
So most likely some companions will be more popular than the rest, and how early and accessible they'll be will be one of the major deciding factors.

Personally, I'll probably replay it a few times but after seeing what all the companions have I'll settle on a favorite party, as usual. I'm not one of those players who tries all sorts of combinations of classes and parties just for fun, I'm someone who settles on a specific class for the protagonist and specific party based on their personalities and story.
I was actually thinking about this conversation earlier today and wanted to submit one last thought.
Part of the reasoning as to why you meet companions along the way instead of all at once is because earlier companions may be dead. Knowing that a companion may die or leave adds a more personal layer. In a story, or really in real life as well, you often meet friends during the journey. Along the way they die, leave, fall in love, turn on you, or are no longer useful as personal goals and needs change. Also, it just isn't very realistic to start off with the perfect party. Did you make all of your friends in your own life all at once? I doubt it. In most stories you meet new people as you progress. Meeting new people along the way allows for the player to adjust their group as needed. If you already have the perfect group from the beginning a lot of these elements are lost. It is necessary to have Companions at different parts of the story because you most likely, if played as the game is intended, will have a open place for them in your group. Meeting a companion, getting to know them, and then seeing them die horrifically, turn against you, or decide that he/she is needed elsewhere makes the companion all the more memorable and real.

I know most players don't replay games. Hell, most players never even finish a game in general, but this game isn't for most players. It is for Gamers who miss those old games. When you only had a dozen to choose from and you played what you had at least 3-6 times. I think MMOs are part of the problem for why this has happened. That and information overload of today has left us with illiterate, short attention spanned.... Sorry, guess I'm just being nostalgic.
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Re: I really hope the remaining companions are visitants.

Post by Aramintai » June 24th, 2016, 12:21 am

anonymous6059 wrote: I was actually thinking about this conversation earlier today and wanted to submit one last thought.
Part of the reasoning as to why you meet companions along the way instead of all at once is because earlier companions may be dead.
In T:TON companions cannot die in battle, just fyi. But perhaps some of them can later if the plot will require it. I remember something devs said about defending some village and choosing between leaving behind a companion or leaving the whole village to die, dunno if it's still in the game though.
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