Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

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Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by anonymous6059 » January 13th, 2016, 8:34 am

Does Pillars of Eternity and Torment: Tides of Numenera share a similar plot and if so would that be because Chris Avellone wrote parts of both stories?

In Pillars of Eternity you the watcher a person whose soul has been awoken. This will eventually kill you and so your forced to hunt down the man you caused it. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from soul to soul.

In Torment: Tides of numenera you are the last lastoff a person whose consciousness has awoke. There is something called the sorrow that now whats to kill you and so you must hunt down the man that caused you to wake. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from body to body inhabiting their minds.....

To me it sounds like he basically just gave a different twist to the base plot. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that I can't find any information confirming or denying this point.

So what do you think? I'm I just trying to find similarities or do they exist?

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Djoan » January 13th, 2016, 9:16 am

The stories are different and were wrote by the different people i am pretty sure.
I think Avellone wrote one or two companions for POE, i know he also wrote one companion for Torment, but i don't know if he wrote anything more then that.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Firkraag » January 13th, 2016, 10:50 am

Quite peculiar remark, here! I haven't thought about it that way. =)
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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Zombra » January 13th, 2016, 11:42 am

I don't know about the upcoming game, but as far as I got in POE, I did often find myself thinking "this feels very Tormenty."
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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Lord of Riva » January 13th, 2016, 12:05 pm

Zombra wrote:I don't know about the upcoming game, but as far as I got in POE, I did often find myself thinking "this feels very Tormenty."
i didnt think that at all. can you give examples?
im honestly interested where you think this "quality" was reached. If you think its okay in this thread naturally.

PoE was a good game, but it was hardly because the writing was excellent. The writing was good though (so nothing to complain there)

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Colin McComb » January 13th, 2016, 3:15 pm

anonymous6059 wrote:Does Pillars of Eternity and Torment: Tides of Numenera share a similar plot and if so would that be because Chris Avellone wrote parts of both stories?

In Pillars of Eternity you the watcher a person whose soul has been awoken. This will eventually kill you and so your forced to hunt down the man you caused it. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from soul to soul.

In Torment: Tides of numenera you are the last lastoff a person whose consciousness has awoke. There is something called the sorrow that now whats to kill you and so you must hunt down the man that caused you to wake. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from body to body inhabiting their minds.....

To me it sounds like he basically just gave a different twist to the base plot. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that I can't find any information confirming or denying this point.

So what do you think? I'm I just trying to find similarities or do they exist?
Interesting theory, but some particulars are off. :)

First, in TTON, the Changing God doesn't inhabit other people's bodies - he makes his own, and consciousness arises when he leaves. He does not have the ability to enter already-inhabited bodies.
Second, your primary mission in TTON is not to find him.
Third, Adam, Kevin, and I had already hashed out a basic storyline before we launched the Kickstarter, well before Chris's involvement.

So yeah. Denying this point. :)

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Djoan » January 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm

Colin McComb wrote:
anonymous6059 wrote:Does Pillars of Eternity and Torment: Tides of Numenera share a similar plot and if so would that be because Chris Avellone wrote parts of both stories?

In Pillars of Eternity you the watcher a person whose soul has been awoken. This will eventually kill you and so your forced to hunt down the man you caused it. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from soul to soul.

In Torment: Tides of numenera you are the last lastoff a person whose consciousness has awoke. There is something called the sorrow that now whats to kill you and so you must hunt down the man that caused you to wake. This person you're trying to find has the ability to jump from body to body inhabiting their minds.....

To me it sounds like he basically just gave a different twist to the base plot. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that I can't find any information confirming or denying this point.

So what do you think? I'm I just trying to find similarities or do they exist?

First, in TTON, the Changing God doesn't inhabit other people's bodies - he makes his own, and consciousness arises when he leaves. He does not have the ability to enter already-inhabited bodies.
Interesting, i followed Torment since it has been announced and somehow i also thought that guy who wants to become immortal had the ability to inhabit other bodies, and that we will be able to do the same thing! I think i read in one of the updates that we can inhabit people's bodies and change their lives, for better or worse...but after your post Colin apparently i misread that. That would be cool though.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Colin McComb » January 13th, 2016, 3:48 pm

Djoan wrote:Interesting, i followed Torment since it has been announced and somehow i also thought that guy who wants to become immortal had the ability to inhabit other bodies, and that we will be able to do the same thing! I think i read in one of the updates that we can inhabit people's bodies and change their lives, for better or worse...but after your post Colin apparently i misread that. That would be cool though.
Nah, the Changing God creates those bodies and transfers to them - they are essentially empty jars until animated by his consciousness. He gets in first, and when he leaves the castoff consciousness arises. But it seems that once TCG is out, he's out.

But the Last Castoff *does* have the ability to enter other castoff lives at certain points in their histories.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Djoan » January 13th, 2016, 4:01 pm

Colin McComb wrote:
Djoan wrote:Interesting, i followed Torment since it has been announced and somehow i also thought that guy who wants to become immortal had the ability to inhabit other bodies, and that we will be able to do the same thing! I think i read in one of the updates that we can inhabit people's bodies and change their lives, for better or worse...but after your post Colin apparently i misread that. That would be cool though.
Nah, the Changing God creates those bodies and transfers to them - they are essentially empty jars until animated by his consciousness. He gets in first, and when he leaves the castoff consciousness arises. But it seems that once TCG is out, he's out.

But the Last Castoff *does* have the ability to enter other castoff lives at certain points in their histories.
Ok thanks for clarifying, can't wait for January 17th.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by anonymous6059 » January 14th, 2016, 5:32 am

Whoa, I was kind of honored to have Colin actually answer that silly question of mine. I spent too much of my day looking up info on You and Chris Avellone. Not that I'm expecting for Mr. McComb to continue this conversation but I do have one other somewhat related point to make.

Does one person hash out most of the story for these games? Would it be a crime to say that TToN is Mostly Colin McComb's brainchild or do these things almost always need to be attributed to a group, say Inxile as a whole? When I played through Baldur's gate 1&2 I had the feeling that it was much more of a group effort. The story was okay but it seemed like it was more of a group thought experiment. The story would jump around, the plot wasn't the focused maybe? This story and the one in Pillars of Eternity come off as something that was pretty much created by one or two people. To me that is a good thing. I think that the more people are involved in creating a story the more random it can become. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out where these stories are coming from.

I know I should of found somewhere else to ask this question since its kind of off topic.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Colin McComb » January 14th, 2016, 7:50 am

anonymous6059 wrote: Does one person hash out most of the story for these games? Would it be a crime to say that TToN is Mostly Colin McComb's brainchild or do these things almost always need to be attributed to a group, say Inxile as a whole? When I played through Baldur's gate 1&2 I had the feeling that it was much more of a group effort. The story was okay but it seemed like it was more of a group thought experiment. The story would jump around, the plot wasn't the focused maybe? This story and the one in Pillars of Eternity come off as something that was pretty much created by one or two people. To me that is a good thing. I think that the more people are involved in creating a story the more random it can become. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out where these stories are coming from.

I know I should of found somewhere else to ask this question since its kind of off topic.
Technically, I'm responsible for the story. But it would be inaccurate to say it's mostly mine. Adam Heine has been a significant part of the creation process from the start - I'd throw out an idea, and he'd either throw out objections or refinements, and we iterated on it extensively. Kevin Saunders came on board shortly after Adam and I started talking, and he offered some tremendous insights and ideas. So then the three of us worked on the story and the vision until the Kickstarter.

I prepped a long document to present to the gathered writers in July 2013, and we refined it jointly there. Over the course of the next year, we had serious and significant story meetings where we stripped, pared, and improved the story - in addition to Kevin and Adam, Nathan Long, George Ziets, and Chris Avellone contributed significantly with suggestions and ways to make the story more compelling and driven and focused. Though Gavin Jurgens-Fyhrie came on to the project only last year, he has offered some seriously good ideas that I have tried to integrate. Others on the team (like Jeremy Kopman) have also thrown in ideas that have helped guide the story into its current form.

So that's a much longer answer to your question: I am responsible for the story, but I would never dare lay sole claim to it - Adam and Kevin both have had a serious impact on it, and without the input from Nathan, George, and Chris, it would be a much different beast. As with every other discipline in making a game, the lead helps shape what the team does and guides them toward a broader goal, but the particulars of to get there is very much a group effort.

tl;dr: I'm in charge of the story, but am completely indebted to the team.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Lord of Riva » January 14th, 2016, 7:52 am

now i feel bad for saying, the story was "merely" good

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by anonymous6059 » January 14th, 2016, 8:17 am

Thanks, really makes my day that you took the time to let me know who all is involved in the story. I've been reading various high-fantasy books, mostly The Drizzt Series by R.A. Salvatore.

Anyway, my point is that these games have actually opened my eyes to reading!

That's not something I ever imagined a video game could do. So I've been very interested in learning about people like you who write for games. I wish that you would some day release a storyboard of your original ideas. It would be very interesting to see the progress and how the story grew and changed along the way.

I really do consider what you guys are doing to be art in the highest sense possible. Good luck.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Colin McComb » January 15th, 2016, 5:54 pm

You know who I totally forgot to mention? Mark Yohalem, designer of Primordia, who came in and challenged us and made us re-examine the story again. He has a fantastic, incisive mind - probably something to do with his law training - and he pointed out holes in the plot that we might have never noticed.

We're doing an extensive playthrough of the beta in the coming few days to make sure we're happy with what we're putting out, and I have to say that this is an excellent team. I am having FUN playing this game.

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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Firkraag » January 15th, 2016, 11:29 pm

Colin McComb wrote:You know who I totally forgot to mention? Mark Yohalem, designer of Primordia, who came in and challenged us and made us re-examine the story again. He has a fantastic, incisive mind - probably something to do with his law training - and he pointed out holes in the plot that we might have never noticed.

We're doing an extensive playthrough of the beta in the coming few days to make sure we're happy with what we're putting out, and I have to say that this is an excellent team. I am having FUN playing this game.
Colin, this in fact, is very intriguing and fun to read. I'd be glad to see more of that.

Can we hope to see "Torment: Tides of Numenera Developer Retrospective" sometime in a future, after a game release and you, guys, will be freed from the dungeons of the game making?
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Re: Do POE and TToN share a similar story?

Post by Azmodiuz » January 19th, 2016, 8:17 am

Zombra wrote:I don't know about the upcoming game, but as far as I got in POE, I did often find myself thinking "this feels very Tormenty."
Yes, and it had a certain style that I liked that personally reminded me of Mask Of The Betrayer too. I hope Torment out does it (PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE)

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