Question on the Numenera settung.

For discussing Torment's story, setting, and characters. Ninth World discussions encouraged. Spoilers allowed.

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xaositect
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Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by xaositect » July 27th, 2015, 7:06 pm

As Numenera's Ninth World setting is set on Earth a billion years after the presence of its previous inhabitants, it leaves a lot of questions unanswered, about the period that preceded the beginning of the Ninth World, which we in real-life are technically inhabiting currently according to Numenera's canon. One question I had was when exactly did the Eighth World "end" by the standards of the Gregorian calendar? Two thousand years from now? Two billion years from now? Another question is that, seeing as remnants of the previous world's technology has been left behind, are remnants of culture in forms recognizable to people on Earth currently present as well? Would we maybe see surviving remnants of a Kremlin or Taj Mahal, or would the course of history have eradicated most cultural identifiers we know currently?

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by vv221 » July 28th, 2015, 4:32 am

We are not in the Eighth World, but the First. Our civilization will rise and fall, like many after us.
Eight of these civilizations (nothing says if ours will be part of them) will achieve unbelievable levels of development, mastering things like interdimensional travel or time compression, before falling to dust and leaving only artefacts (the numenéra) that are now a part of the Ninth-Worlders daily life.

I don’t think we’ve built today anything ready to last for a billion years, so I would be surprised to see anything in the Ninth World that’s a remnant of today’s human civilization.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Mivey » July 28th, 2015, 6:43 am

vv221 wrote:I don’t think we’ve built today anything ready to last for a billion years, so I would be surprised to see anything in the Ninth World that’s a remnant of today’s human civilization.
Maybe the PC can find a bunch of Nokia 3310s, used as projectile weapons?

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Brother None » July 28th, 2015, 9:08 am

vv221 wrote:I don’t think we’ve built today anything ready to last for a billion years, so I would be surprised to see anything in the Ninth World that’s a remnant of today’s human civilization.
There is explicitly nothing recognizable from our current time or our past in the Ninth world, it's simply too long ago. No easter eggs, no "you find an old Subaru". This is a setting rule that we have no intention of breaking.
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Drool » July 28th, 2015, 1:23 pm

Brother None wrote:There is explicitly nothing recognizable from our current time or our past in the Ninth world, it's simply too long ago. No easter eggs, no "you find an old Subaru". This is a setting rule that we have no intention of breaking.
Aww... I was hoping to find a mangled Diskos.
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Firkraag » July 28th, 2015, 1:48 pm

xaositect wrote:Would we maybe see surviving remnants of a Kremlin or Taj Mahal, or would the course of history have eradicated most cultural identifiers we know currently?
You don't need to wait billion years to see all of it fade into oblivion. For most of things, we made, thousand years will be well enough (and even less for many modern structures) and few exotic material might las a little longer.

For all purposes, I'll suggest you to treat this setting, as a fantasy, without trying too hard to draw any connections to real science, anthropology or geology.

Numenera's doesn't even try to connect with modern Earth as we know it. No one in setting knows, how First World looked like, there is no archealogical and historical leftovers or cultural descendants or discernable synthesis/development. For all we know, you can place in First World virtually any setting instead of modern Earth and there will be no impact on Ninth World at all. Maybe, it was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Earth all along! Same for Ninth World humans. They might've been vatt-cloned and carefully placed here for scientific purposes and there were no Earth history at all.
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Crosmando » July 30th, 2015, 8:48 am

I'd be willing to bet "The Steadfast" is actually Europe, even the "Sea Kingdom of Ghan" looks like Great Britain but attached to the continent. I think the Steadfast are even led by a "Pope".
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Firkraag » July 30th, 2015, 8:51 am

"I am a warhead of weaponized Truth." The Last Castoff (non-canon).

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by ad1066 » August 10th, 2015, 9:14 am

If I recall correctly, The Ninth World has been around for a while, but not too long. The Order of Truth has been around for about 400 years.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by vv221 » August 10th, 2015, 9:39 am

Firkraag wrote:Earth 100 Million Years From Now. Youtube.
Now let’s try to imagine how it could look *ten times* 100 Millions years from now.
No wonder you can’t recognize Earth on the Ninth World maps ;)

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Firkraag » August 10th, 2015, 10:54 am

Pretty much, yep. Oh, here's couple of interesting links. Numenera fans made these not a while ago:

1. https://plus.google.com/+RyanChaddock/posts/FU762V4E4sW
2. https://plus.google.com/+RyanChaddock/posts/aHdV6qCq4kq
3. https://plus.google.com/+RyanChaddock/posts/fuWTnkYdGp3

I don't really think, it's geologically correct, but who cares?
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by vv221 » August 10th, 2015, 11:03 am

Firkraag wrote:I don't really think, it's geologically correct, but who cares?
In Numenéra setting, some civilizations reached such level of development that they could have redefined geological trends. So "geologically correct" has no meaning in this world ;)

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Firkraag » August 10th, 2015, 11:26 am

vv221 wrote:
Firkraag wrote:I don't really think, it's geologically correct, but who cares?
In Numenéra setting, some civilizations reached such level of development that they could have redefined geological trends. So "geologically correct" has no meaning in this world ;)
Answer "because they can" shouldn't undermine questions, like "why?". Unless it's fantasy setting and not science fantasy, like it presents itself.

But I'm not about litospheric development per say but rather about a fact, that artists spliced, sliced and glued real world continents. Most probably, that Old World's sufficiently advanced civilizations already had altered map and created pre-Ninth World geography from entirely different parts of land (if terrestial. at all).

And for the sake of GM's sanity if you make answer about something, fantasy or not, it is in your best interest to refrain from answers, that borders on "magic did it and keep it like this with magic, no matter what other magic might say". For example you could say, that some sufficiently advanced civilization did continents to look like this. Players might be properly equipped and ask "Ok. When?" Then you might say, that it was a time of "Seventh World or something". "Okay," - players respond, - "Then why didn't that new supercontinent drifted apart or changed it's shape?" Because there is some ancient Numenera that prevents that from happening. "Ok. Where? We have best Data-Gathering Numenera around. Leed us to that ancient terraforming Numenera!"

At some point you might find yourself telling your players, that some Numenera defies a large chunk of fundamental laws of physics for no other reason, other than to cover your lack of comprehending, why anyone would want to do such thing in a first place. 'Ancient omnipotent alien gods' or 'magic' isn't universal answers. At least, I try to avoid this trap when I run my games, as much as possible.

Sorry for wall of complaining and pixel-hunting.
Last edited by Firkraag on August 10th, 2015, 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by vv221 » August 10th, 2015, 11:52 am

Should my players at any point ask me why the Ninth World look like this, there’s no way I would outright give them any answer ;)
Instead, I would have them embark in a looong campaign looking for the answer to that question. And I’ll make sure that they (unknowingly) write the story of the Ninth World geography as much as I do.

Oh, and no need to be sorry about anything, your critics are pertinent!

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by -Archangel- » August 17th, 2015, 6:24 am

Firkraag wrote:
vv221 wrote:
Firkraag wrote:I don't really think, it's geologically correct, but who cares?
In Numenéra setting, some civilizations reached such level of development that they could have redefined geological trends. So "geologically correct" has no meaning in this world ;)
Answer "because they can" shouldn't undermine questions, like "why?". Unless it's fantasy setting and not science fantasy, like it presents itself.

But I'm not about litospheric development per say but rather about a fact, that artists spliced, sliced and glued real world continents. Most probably, that Old World's sufficiently advanced civilizations already had altered map and created pre-Ninth World geography from entirely different parts of land (if terrestial. at all).

And for the sake of GM's sanity if you make answer about something, fantasy or not, it is in your best interest to refrain from answers, that borders on "magic did it and keep it like this with magic, no matter what other magic might say". For example you could say, that some sufficiently advanced civilization did continents to look like this. Players might be properly equipped and ask "Ok. When?" Then you might say, that it was a time of "Seventh World or something". "Okay," - players respond, - "Then why didn't that new supercontinent drifted apart or changed it's shape?" Because there is some ancient Numenera that prevents that from happening. "Ok. Where? We have best Data-Gathering Numenera around. Leed us to that ancient terraforming Numenera!"

At some point you might find yourself telling your players, that some Numenera defies a large chunk of fundamental laws of physics for no other reason, other than to cover your lack of comprehending, why anyone would want to do such thing in a first place. 'Ancient omnipotent alien gods' or 'magic' isn't universal answers. At least, I try to avoid this trap when I run my games, as much as possible.

Sorry for wall of complaining and pixel-hunting.
All the why questions and answers are left to individual GM and campaigns to ask and answers. Only thing rulebook says is that everything is possible.
One thing we know (well two) it was done by previous inhabitants is that the Sun was prevented from dying and nanomachines that allow esoteries were released into the world.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Monarlais » September 26th, 2015, 8:02 am

"Present Day" Ninth world has been around for about 900 years of recorded history by Ninth Worlders. Before that, humans were living in tribes and were less civilized.

I don't believe anyone knows what happened between the end of the Eighth World and humans living like tribal people.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Omeganian » January 19th, 2016, 5:12 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... far_future

So, the continents would fuse and break apart - probably twice over, and multicellular life won't be able to exist. Since it does, and the world doesn't appear to be a hothouse, we get some measure of what these previous civilizations were capable of.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by vv221 » January 19th, 2016, 5:32 am

Omeganian wrote:So, the continents would fuse and break apart - probably twice over, and multicellular life won't be able to exist. Since it does, and the world doesn't appear to be a hothouse, we get some measure of what these previous civilizations were capable of.
There are hints that human life disappeared at least once from the surface of the globe during the last billion years. Why did they, and how come they’re here again, we have no clue…

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by Omeganian » January 19th, 2016, 7:08 am

vv221 wrote:
Omeganian wrote:So, the continents would fuse and break apart - probably twice over, and multicellular life won't be able to exist. Since it does, and the world doesn't appear to be a hothouse, we get some measure of what these previous civilizations were capable of.
There are hints that human life disappeared at least once from the surface of the globe during the last billion years. Why did they, and how come they’re here again, we have no clue…
A reconstructed reservation of some intergalactic empire, perhaps.

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Re: Question on the Numenera settung.

Post by anonymous6059 » January 21st, 2016, 5:32 am

So if its a billion years in the future wouldn't all of the civilizations from oh 500 million years before be utterly destroyed? I mean, all these artifacts wouldn't stand the test of time. So in reality you'd only be able to find the artifacts from the previous one or two inhabitants of the planet. I mean the only other explanation would be that all the artifacts are made by aliens from materials that never decompose with time. In a million years our bodies will be the oil that we use to power our cars. No structures or technology we have made will last.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF1dZLPGC3M

Another thing is why is the planet even inhabitable by humans in a billion years? Would it not be very likely that the earth's environment of changed so much that it would be highly unlikely be could live on the planet in a billion years?

Not that I can't suspend my disbelief or anything. I love the setting! Its just not realistic that's all.

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