Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Announcements & media coverage for Torment: Tides of Numenera. Only moderators & inXile can make new threads on this forum.

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kaiman
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by kaiman » December 23rd, 2015, 11:58 pm

Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's, and theres tons of small little things everywhere in these ingame screenies, that look more pixelated then say , PoE was as an example.
"Luckily" for me, my bad eyesight makes that less of an issue. The extra anti-aliasing that comes with it makes short work of such minor annoyances ;-).

However, your comment led me to a closer re-examination of the screenshot and I noticed that you can even see the characters' reflections on the metal floor. That's awesome!


Regarding the update in general, I really appreciate what's being done with the backer NPCs. That's way ahead of PoE. Honestly, it's touches like this that will make TToN great. Graphics, I don't care about (much).

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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by Crossing » December 24th, 2015, 7:46 am

Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's, and theres tons of small little things everywhere in these ingame screenies, that look more pixelated then say , PoE was as an example.


I don't know why, but i always care for such things, these days. I love the old games, I love new games too. but when half the area or map is decent fidelity and then there are parts that are lower quality..its just weird.
You can't really judge this picture, since it's lossy (jpg).

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sear
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by sear » December 24th, 2015, 7:55 am

Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's, and theres tons of small little things everywhere in these ingame screenies, that look more pixelated then say , PoE was as an example.


I don't know why, but i always care for such things, these days. I love the old games, I love new games too. but when half the area or map is decent fidelity and then there are parts that are lower quality..its just weird.
The JPEG compression is definitely affecting the clarity of the image a bit.

Also note that because the camera can be zoomed in and out, there's some scaling that can affect image quality vs. what the renders look like at native non-scaled resolution.

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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by RadonGOG » December 24th, 2015, 9:35 am

Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's, and theres tons of small little things everywhere in these ingame screenies, that look more pixelated then say , PoE was as an example.


I don't know why, but i always care for such things, these days. I love the old games, I love new games too. but when half the area or map is decent fidelity and then there are parts that are lower quality..its just weird.
Well, that´s definitely true. These screens suffer from antialiasing and compression artifacts. InXile should get their hands on implementing some sort of Ingame-SuperSampling. PillarsOfEternity also lacked this and it was very painful at certain zoom factors. (of course you can try to find ways to get SSAA in anyways, but a native implementation is simply better)

@sear: Could you tell the engine experts at InXile that a HighQualityAntialiasingMethod would be a cool thing to include? It does help a lot for PR-Screenshots by the way... :D
...and I´m sure that Obsidian would appreciate as well if you´d try to find an excellent solution and share it with them. :idea:

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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by ar_xiv » December 31st, 2015, 2:19 pm

The aliasing you're talking about (looking specifically at the table, as I can't detect this anywhere else lol) seems to be the age-old 2d games problem of rendering the "background" (static) versus rendering what I'll call the foreground, or variable things (sprites, removable objects, anything rendered by the 3d engine, etc.). Basically, on the background you can use silky-smooth photoshop (or whatever) anti-aliasing at no cost, whereas the foreground anti-aliasing is set (and limited) by the engine.

It's an error, sure, but one that has also been helpful in many games for giving visual clues (or giveaways, as the case may be) as to what can be interacted with. If you've played any infinity engine games you'll know what I mean.

This problem extends into the lighting engine as well, creating additional contrast between background and foreground. I'm sure there are a ton of different approaches to this, but what I'm guessing is the most basic solution deals with fabricating lighting only for "foreground" objects and characters, which more or less matches the background. the lighting of the background is more set, so I'm sure it's quite tricky to get them to match exactly.

From what we've seen in the game footage so far though, the backgrounds in this game (while 2D) aren't static at all, and are subject to various reflection effects and things like that, which I love to think about even though I don't know technically what's going on. I was quite impressed, for example, with the reflection on the floor in the very first alpha systems test. So cool. Not to mention all the reflections in this screenshot that must be rendered real-time! :geek:

All this is to say, even with some aliasing, I'm very impressed so far; and technically, it's obvious this engine has a lot more going on than PoE.
Last edited by ar_xiv on December 31st, 2015, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sear
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by sear » December 31st, 2015, 3:29 pm

ar_xiv wrote:From what we've seen in the game footage so far though, the backgrounds in this game (while 2D) aren't static at all, and are subject to various reflection effects and things like that, which I love to think about even though I don't know technically what's going on. I was quite impressed, for example, with the reflection on the floor in the very first alpha systems test. So cool. Not to mention all the reflections in this screenshot that must be rendered real-time! :geek:
The floor in the intro of the game is actually 3D rendered to my knowledge, instead of pre-rendered (though the actual movements/animations are pre-baked).

As for reflections on the floor in the Order of Truth, yes, those are real time and they reflect characters as they move around. :)

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Azmodiuz
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by Azmodiuz » January 16th, 2016, 3:26 pm

Its a pet peeve of mine, it grabs my attention and then I forget about the world I was in , the world that I was playing, when I see some pixels like that.
I guess it's also because when I play a game like this/that, i might be scanning every inch of it looking for secrets and things to add to the lore, and Pixels just makes me think the place Im looking at is unimportant, and thus I start to care less about what I'm doing and where I am in game and such.

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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by Firkraag » January 17th, 2016, 2:40 am

This is kind of sad, Azmodius.
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by Drool » January 17th, 2016, 12:24 pm

Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's
Are you using a magnifying glass or something?
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Azmodiuz
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Re: Updated Our Journal (50): A Sneak Peek at the Beta, Backer NPCs, and News

Post by Azmodiuz » January 18th, 2016, 8:43 am

Drool wrote:
Azmodiuz wrote:I find the screenshot looks low quality. Let me explain, I see pixelation everywhere.. like look at the table, the edges look like it was made with Lego's
Are you using a magnifying glass or something?
com'on now.

I'm just seeing it, with my eyes visibly, its not everything, but the edges of some objects stick out very pixelated, to me.
No offense or anything, I doubt this makes the game play horrible or something.

There are Audiophiles out there and then there's people who are visually fixated and demand some fidelity, or constancy, or maybe something just pop-out to them, like I'm saying.

I do not say this to offend or to troll or anything, but to maybe make a positive change, or note of it. Ideally things wouldn't be so pixelated when you look closer. Maybe when the games out it won't be this way, maybe on my 4K screens it will be fine, maybe the guy was just using an old/low fidelity resolution like 1024x768 or something.

When I first played the original Torment, i spent hours upon hours looking at everything in every scene, with marvel and wonder. To me, all those small details are important. Not so much in BG or IWD series, but in torment, many more things were scattered around and secrets were everywhere, after all, you were in the city of doors - Sigil. It added to the immersion, paying attention to those details. (don't get me wrong, Torment was heavily pixelated and does not compare to games today. but for its time, I thought it was severely consistent)

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