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Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 10th, 2012, 9:40 pm
by Drool
Because I never bother with Combat Shooting in PC playthroughs. I've had unlucky unjamming streaks, but also had people do so just fine without out it. I can't connect to Ausir's wiki at work, but he's got more information about the skill there. I'm still convinced that it was never programmed correctly, especially since it can only be bought during creation and is never raised in game. It feels like a testing skill, like NAMEAC and the Red Ryder were probably testing armor and weapon.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 11th, 2012, 7:52 am
by ad1066
krellen wrote:IQ 24 and the 3 free skill points required to train it, IIRC.
I'm not talking about the requirements to train the skill, I'm talking about the bit before that, where 95% of characters that go into the simulator get kicked out with "Insufficient cochlear development" or something. I thought it was a DEX or AGI thing, but I've seen characters with high DEX and AGI get kicked as well.

-- Ben

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 11th, 2012, 8:31 am
by krellen
ad1066 wrote:
krellen wrote:IQ 24 and the 3 free skill points required to train it, IIRC.
I'm not talking about the requirements to train the skill, I'm talking about the bit before that, where 95% of characters that go into the simulator get kicked out with "Insufficient cochlear development" or something. I thought it was a DEX or AGI thing, but I've seen characters with high DEX and AGI get kicked as well.

-- Ben
*shrug* I never had someone get kicked out, I guess.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 17th, 2012, 1:03 pm
by wren
Drool wrote:Because I never bother with Combat Shooting in PC playthroughs. I've had unlucky unjamming streaks, but also had people do so just fine without out it. I can't connect to Ausir's wiki at work, but he's got more information about the skill there. I'm still convinced that it was never programmed correctly, especially since it can only be bought during creation and is never raised in game. It feels like a testing skill, like NAMEAC and the Red Ryder were probably testing armor and weapon.
Guys, it was hard to raise, not impossible. I gave shooting characters 1 in combat shooting at ranger center, and raised one character to 5 or 6 once. However, I can't say that I noticed any improvement from it.

If i remember right, i got one char from 1 to 4 in a single fight by having him shoot the scorpitron repeatedly with a clip pistol. :lol:

Re: Combat Shooting

Posted: April 17th, 2012, 1:08 pm
by wren
twilobyte wrote:
wren wrote:I remember raising my combat shooting skill from 1 to like 5 or six.
Screenshots or it didn't happen :lol:

I've played through countless times and have never seen Combat Shooting level up. Unless there is a specific weapon required that I never used, but I used them all..
I swear! lol

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 17th, 2012, 3:47 pm
by CaptainPatch
krellen wrote:
ad1066 wrote:
krellen wrote:IQ 24 and the 3 free skill points required to train it, IIRC.
I'm not talking about the requirements to train the skill, I'm talking about the bit before that, where 95% of characters that go into the simulator get kicked out with "Insufficient cochlear development" or something. I thought it was a DEX or AGI thing, but I've seen characters with high DEX and AGI get kicked as well.

-- Ben
*shrug* I never had someone get kicked out, I guess.
I'm pretty sure that the primary determinant was, "Does the PC have _3_ Skill Points to spend on the Skill?" (I was just there and ALL 7 of my party members were unable to get the Skill. But then, the most spare Skill Points any of them had was _2_.)

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 25th, 2012, 1:35 pm
by Fargham
I am pretty sure you had to pass a dex check to learn the skill as well:

http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Helicopter_pilot

Acrobatics was huge in dodging traps such as landmines in the Vegas Golf Course, as well as other explosives.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: April 25th, 2012, 3:33 pm
by CaptainPatch
wren wrote:If i remember right, i got one char from 1 to 4 in a single fight by having him shoot the scorpitron repeatedly with a clip pistol. :lol:
I think you are confusing Combat Shooting with Clip Pistol. Firing a weapon gains you improvement in _that_ weapon Skill. Fire an Uzi or Mac 10 a lot, and SMG goes up. AT weapons boost AT Skill. M19 gets you Rifle. Etc. My last party which had three generated PCs had each of them finish with Combat Shooting 1, but 6s and 7s in all of the weapon Skills.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 1st, 2012, 10:44 am
by Mathsorcerer
Knife Throwing was always useless, in my opinion. Most of the time I considered Clip Pistol and Rifle to be useless, spending the points on SMG or Assault Rifle, instead. I never start anyone with a point in Confidence or Bureaucracy but I manage to give one person a rank of 1 in them at some point even if they never get used. I usually give my "thief" character Sleight of Hand but they never wind up using it, either.

Combat Shooting...no, I don't think it has any actual in-game use. Even when I have given it to someone they go the whole game and it never advances in rank.

There is no reason to give someone both Pugilism and Knife Fight, in my opinion, even though they both can take advantage of extra attacks via Brawling. Still...they aren't useless even though you don't *need* them.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 1st, 2012, 11:16 am
by CaptainPatch
I'm pretty sure that Silent Movement does nothing. If you try to use it as a Skill check to sneak past a foe that hasn't detected you yet, all you get is "Nothing happens."

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 1st, 2012, 4:27 pm
by Drool
CaptainPatch wrote:I'm pretty sure that Silent Movement does nothing. If you try to use it as a Skill check to sneak past a foe that hasn't detected you yet, all you get is "Nothing happens."
It's a passive skill that runs in the background, not an active one you trigger (like Medic). Much like how Perception could detect things without you specifically using it (think the landmines in the second Funny Room). Without Silent Movement, you'll always wake up the guard in the Courthouse, which will lead to Danny Citrine being killed. It also helps with avoiding some of the guards in the Courthouse.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 1st, 2012, 7:31 pm
by CaptainPatch
Drool wrote:
CaptainPatch wrote:I'm pretty sure that Silent Movement does nothing. If you try to use it as a Skill check to sneak past a foe that hasn't detected you yet, all you get is "Nothing happens."
It's a passive skill that runs in the background, not an active one you trigger (like Medic). Much like how Perception could detect things without you specifically using it (think the landmines in the second Funny Room). Without Silent Movement, you'll always wake up the guard in the Courthouse, which will lead to Danny Citrine being killed. It also helps with avoiding some of the guards in the Courthouse.
Hmm. When I was in the Courthouse, no one in the party had Silent Movement. Just opened the door and the guard was asleep. Got Danny out alive no problem (other than he needed a Canteen, fast).

If you went over to Ugly's hideout and went up on the roof, just walking along the line of skylights was enough to improve Perception ("you see blurry figures below") up to Level 3. Just like walking on the sand dunes in Needles jacked up Climb and Acrobat.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 1st, 2012, 7:50 pm
by Drool
There may be a luck (or Luck) element there, but Silent Movement definitely helps. Also, with Silent Movement, you can overpower the guys in that first room near Ugly's roof without fighting them. Kind of like how a high Brawling can insta-defeat Silver Stranglers in the OSHA room. And yes, that was a passive use of Perception; just like the Funny Room landmines or finding the Sonic Key door in the Mushroom Temple (where you could also actively use Perception if your score was low).

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: May 12th, 2012, 1:29 pm
by wren
CaptainPatch wrote:
wren wrote:If i remember right, i got one char from 1 to 4 in a single fight by having him shoot the scorpitron repeatedly with a clip pistol. :lol:
I think you are confusing Combat Shooting with Clip Pistol. Firing a weapon gains you improvement in _that_ weapon Skill. Fire an Uzi or Mac 10 a lot, and SMG goes up. AT weapons boost AT Skill. M19 gets you Rifle. Etc. My last party which had three generated PCs had each of them finish with Combat Shooting 1, but 6s and 7s in all of the weapon Skills.
I don't think so, because I remember thinking it was unraisable, and then calling my buddy in surprise when it leveled up.
Lol, I'm gonna have to get Dosbox and load this thing up and get y'all a screenshot.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 6th, 2012, 6:07 am
by Hiver
Hmmm... a lot of examples for my magnificent idea of separating skills into primary and complimentary skills. To avoid players being confused and unclear on this issue.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 6th, 2012, 10:00 pm
by Drool
Not having a bugged skill with no apparent use would solve the problem too.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 8th, 2012, 3:07 pm
by Hiver
Amputation isnt always the best option, thank you.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 8th, 2012, 3:55 pm
by tuluse
Drool wrote:Not having a bugged skill with no apparent use would solve the problem too.
There is a difference between no apparent use and just less useful.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 8th, 2012, 9:03 pm
by Drool
Combat Shooting had no apparent use and may not have worked at all.

Re: Were there any skills that were useless??

Posted: June 15th, 2012, 4:30 am
by Grave
I think Slight of Hand was only used one time at Scott's Bar, when you would go on stage and perform stage tricks. I don't recall Confidence having much of a use, either.