Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

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faxg
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Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by faxg » April 3rd, 2017, 3:07 pm

I'll admit it: I'm a cheater.
After a few hours in, as a (very!) casual gamer, I always tend to play RPGs as a kind of interactive, story-driven adventure, following the plot and dreaming of being an unbeatable hero.
Sure, sometimes I avoid fights, get diplomatic or sneak around corners - but when I decide to engage in a fight I want it to be like in the movies: ultimately the hero wins and the story continues. I don't want to respawn and repeatedly try to win a "crisis" again, laying out tactical combat strategies in advance - or go back and look out for a totally different path.
I might be weird in that sense, but getting "killed", or not having enough pool stats to perform an action I want to perform in a situation really annoys me, and breaks immersion for me.

Now, TTON does not seem to have anything that was present in all games from the first BG to PST to PoE: the debug console to type in cheats. Get more gold, more stats, more whatever to make the game effectively an "interactive novella".

I mean, if there was EVER a game made that should have a "story mode" difficulty setting, TTON would be it.
But from all I see, there's no debug console or equivalent - hell, there isn't even a difficulty setting AT ALL!
Is this just me? Am I missing something? :|

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by Jernaugh » April 3rd, 2017, 5:09 pm

I don't know about the ability to cheat, but I would imagine that the Story mode difficulty setting you suggest would have run counter to the design goal of making failure interesting. If falling is ideally supposed to lead to equally valid story scenarios, then making things easier essentially devalues certain story paths. Now all that being said, I sympathise with your situation. Personally, I like tough challenges in my games, but I'm not above a little save scumming if I start feeling too weak.

Sorry I can't help.

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by kaiman » April 4th, 2017, 2:14 am

faxg wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 3:07 pm
I mean, if there was EVER a game made that should have a "story mode" difficulty setting,
And there's me thinking that what we currently have *is* the story mode difficulty ;-).

Which just shows that difficulty is perceived widely different and tastes from player to player regarding the right amount of challenge or lack of challenge spans a wide range. For your consolation, I did not beat all the early fights and did not succeed in each and every skill check either. This changes as you level up, get better gear, increased Edge and larger stat pools. In the beginning, I guess repeated resting and consumables to replenish your pools or aid in combat are your friends.

Like you, but for different reasons, I'd love this game to have a difficulty slider :-).

Edit: this is what you'll want.

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Gizmo
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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by Gizmo » April 4th, 2017, 3:36 am

faxg wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 3:07 pm
I might be weird in that sense, but getting "killed", or not having enough pool stats to perform an action I want to perform in a situation really annoys me, and breaks immersion for me.
You would probably like Planescape:Torment. The main character can never really die —it's part of the plot; which is a doozy.

As for cheats... I'm generally glad when they don't exist; or when they don't exist until one completes the game.
Usually my opinion on it being that the player is not really entitled to know past what they are fairly able to access with the PC. Now obviously anyone who buys a game should be able to inspect all of it at will, but it's really the point of RPGs that the PC be the conduit to the world and the story, and that different PCs should reveal those differently.

Cheats can defeat the point of offering different character types to play; (for instance some characters shouldn't be able to win some battles —or shouldn't want to try). So officially implementing ways for the end-user to back-stab the game [by robbing the work of its paced reveals, and it's ability to withhold them] is just not something I'd want to become a popular thing for RPG designers to do, or have be expected of them.

That said... I would ask in the forum if the developers have exposed a script console in the game, and for any information on how to use it to alter the PC and/or game settings. Unsupported tinkering can be fun all its own. :twisted:

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sear
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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by sear » April 4th, 2017, 6:04 am

Gizmo wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 3:36 am
That said... I would ask in the forum if the developers have exposed a script console in the game, and for any information on how to use it to alter the PC and/or game settings. Unsupported tinkering can be fun all its own. :twisted:
I can check into this, but I am not sure how easy it is as the console settings are tied into the debug options for the game. It's also not uncommon for mods or cheats to break things, which tends to lead to more support questions coming in - so there is a bit of a trade-off in opening that Pandora's box. ;)

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by Gizmo » April 4th, 2017, 11:45 am

IIRC, end-user use of the console in Obsidian's New Vegas, disables Steam achievements for the remainder of that session; perhaps (?) surviving into later reloads of that session —one would assume that saving the game after console use [possible cheating] would invalidate that PC's adventure achievements from that point onward.

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by sear » April 4th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Gizmo wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 11:45 am
IIRC, end-user use of the console in Obsidian's New Vegas, disables Steam achievements for the remainder of that session; perhaps (?) surviving into later reloads of that session —one would assume that saving the game after console use [possible cheating] would invalidate that PC's adventure achievements from that point onward.
Not a huge fan of disabling achievements for console or mod usage... as a gamer that always grinds my gears. :evil:

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by Gizmo » April 4th, 2017, 5:05 pm

sear wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 1:45 pm
Not a huge fan of disabling achievements for console or mod usage... as a gamer that always grinds my gears. :evil:
When I thought about it though, I could not think of a better way... The console is powerful, and can make achieving those achievements dishonestly ~a rather trivial endeavor. Who then can trust the listings if everyone can cheat with the console to attain them?

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by faxg » April 7th, 2017, 5:53 am

Gizmo wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 5:05 pm
sear wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 1:45 pm
Not a huge fan of disabling achievements for console or mod usage... as a gamer that always grinds my gears. :evil:
When I thought about it though, I could not think of a better way... The console is powerful, and can make achieving those achievements dishonestly ~a rather trivial endeavor. Who then can trust the listings if everyone can cheat with the console to attain them?

Hi there, thanks for discussing this.
Personally I'm fine with disabling achievements when cheating (all games I know handle it that way, which is just fair).
It's also clear that this is all at your own risk and can break things, which is why I try to use it as minimal-invasive as possible - +Gold or skill pool shouldn't break things, manually toggling quest flags - hmm, aside from testing you mod probably a bad idea.

The problem I currently have is not necessarly with dying (since PS:T I really like it :) ), and I understand that there will always be a way forward in the game even if you fail at some skill checks / fights. The point is, the game may force me to take an alternative path than that one I'd like to explore.

Example: very early in the game with the guy that gets strangled by his nightmares - I wanted to start a riot, but failed at convincing one of the guys. Didn't quick-save before for quite some minutes, so my options are either to try another way (and wonder until eternity on how that riot would have played out), or re-play 10minutes and then do quicksave/load until I succeed.

Think of the "story mode" as these "choose your own adventure books" . (If you do A, read on on Page 123, for B, go to page 42 etc..) . The problem is that due to chance / lack of skill points I can't reliably choose the "Option B", or win a fight, if this is what I really want to explore.

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by kilobug » April 7th, 2017, 5:57 am

faxg wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 5:53 am
manually toggling quest flags - hmm, aside from testing you mod probably a bad idea.
I see one use for that (and it's my primary use of "cheat", be it console or save-game editing), it's a workaround for when your are hit by a game bug that makes completing a quest impossible. But gladly I haven't be hit by any those in TTON so far.

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by faxg » April 7th, 2017, 6:06 am

sear wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 1:45 pm
Gizmo wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 11:45 am
IIRC, end-user use of the console in Obsidian's New Vegas, disables Steam achievements for the remainder of that session; perhaps (?) surviving into later reloads of that session —one would assume that saving the game after console use [possible cheating] would invalidate that PC's adventure achievements from that point onward.
Not a huge fan of disabling achievements for console or mod usage... as a gamer that always grinds my gears. :evil:
btw - I think most games (like PoE) disable achievements for all future saves. E.g. you only unlock achievements if coming off from a "clean" savegame.
Should be ok for modders - you probably have different savegames for playing and "testing", just don't mix them up ;-)

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by faxg » April 7th, 2017, 6:11 am

kaiman wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 2:14 am

Edit: this is what you'll want.
thanks, but I'm playing the GoG version on MacOS, so I guess I'm out of luck :roll:

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by kaiman » April 7th, 2017, 12:05 pm

faxg wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 6:11 am
kaiman wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 2:14 am

Edit: this is what you'll want.
thanks, but I'm playing the GoG version on MacOS, so I guess I'm out of luck :roll:
Since this is all .NET, it should not make a difference which version of the game or OS you are using. I am running the GOG version on Linux, and just tried the mod successfully. Just download the .zip file and copy Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into TidesOfNumenera_Data/Managed (overriding the file of the same name ... you likely want to back that up first, just in case!). Then place the Mod/ directory from the .zip next to TidesOfNumenera_Data folder. Like so:
Image

Now, I do not know how the file structure will look like on OSX. Most likely, everything will be neatly hidden inside a Torment.App bundle. So you'd have to show the package contents of that first, then explore for the desired locations. I'd assume you'll find stuff somewhere under Contents/Resources, but it might as well be elsewhere. Haven't a Mac around to check right now, unfortunately.

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by faxg » April 9th, 2017, 3:24 am

kaiman wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 12:05 pm
faxg wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 6:11 am
kaiman wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 2:14 am

Edit: this is what you'll want.
thanks, but I'm playing the GoG version on MacOS, so I guess I'm out of luck :roll:
Since this is all .NET, it should not make a difference which version of the game or OS you are using. I am running the GOG version on Linux, and just tried the mod successfully. Just download the .zip file and copy Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into TidesOfNumenera_Data/Managed (overriding the file of the same name ... you likely want to back that up first, just in case!). Then place the Mod/ directory from the .zip next to TidesOfNumenera_Data folder. Like so:
Image

Now, I do not know how the file structure will look like on OSX. Most likely, everything will be neatly hidden inside a Torment.App bundle. So you'd have to show the package contents of that first, then explore for the desired locations. I'd assume you'll find stuff somewhere under Contents/Resources, but it might as well be elsewhere. Haven't a Mac around to check right now, unfortunately.
thanks, but doesn't seem to work unfortunately.. the console shows up (had to put the Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.ddl into /Content/Resources/Data/Managed on MacOS), but it seems that in order for the cheats to load it expects a hardcoded different directory layout. E.g. I don't have a 'TidesOfNumenera_Data' folder, but a '/Resources/Data' ...
Now I could try to recompile and fix, but .. nah, that's too much fiddeling around and potentially breaking stuff.
Rather use my rare spare time time to play the game ;-)

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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by poizan42 » April 10th, 2017, 11:19 am

faxg wrote:
April 9th, 2017, 3:24 am
kaiman wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 12:05 pm
faxg wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 6:11 am


thanks, but I'm playing the GoG version on MacOS, so I guess I'm out of luck :roll:
Since this is all .NET, it should not make a difference which version of the game or OS you are using. I am running the GOG version on Linux, and just tried the mod successfully. Just download the .zip file and copy Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into TidesOfNumenera_Data/Managed (overriding the file of the same name ... you likely want to back that up first, just in case!). Then place the Mod/ directory from the .zip next to TidesOfNumenera_Data folder. Like so:
Image

Now, I do not know how the file structure will look like on OSX. Most likely, everything will be neatly hidden inside a Torment.App bundle. So you'd have to show the package contents of that first, then explore for the desired locations. I'd assume you'll find stuff somewhere under Contents/Resources, but it might as well be elsewhere. Haven't a Mac around to check right now, unfortunately.
thanks, but doesn't seem to work unfortunately.. the console shows up (had to put the Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.ddl into /Content/Resources/Data/Managed on MacOS), but it seems that in order for the cheats to load it expects a hardcoded different directory layout. E.g. I don't have a 'TidesOfNumenera_Data' folder, but a '/Resources/Data' ...
Now I could try to recompile and fix, but .. nah, that's too much fiddeling around and potentially breaking stuff.
Rather use my rare spare time time to play the game ;-)
Why not just make a symbolic link named TidesOfNumenera_Data pointing to Resources/Data?

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marceror
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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by marceror » April 19th, 2017, 11:34 am

sear wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 6:04 am
Gizmo wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 3:36 am
That said... I would ask in the forum if the developers have exposed a script console in the game, and for any information on how to use it to alter the PC and/or game settings. Unsupported tinkering can be fun all its own. :twisted:
I can check into this, but I am not sure how easy it is as the console settings are tied into the debug options for the game. It's also not uncommon for mods or cheats to break things, which tends to lead to more support questions coming in - so there is a bit of a trade-off in opening that Pandora's box. ;)
You must love your buddies at Paradox than. They disable achievements for many of their games if you simply opt NOT to use Iron Man mode. :P

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Gizmo
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Re: Missing the ability to cheat (or lower game difficulty significantly)

Post by Gizmo » April 19th, 2017, 1:59 pm

marceror wrote:
April 19th, 2017, 11:34 am
You must love your buddies at Paradox than. They disable achievements for many of their games if you simply opt NOT to use Iron Man mode. :P
I actually have a friend at Paradox. 8-)
I didn't know that about their games; it sounds neat.

I usually install an achievement disabler, if available; on Steam games that can be modded. I've just never been interested in them, and prefer not to know about them, or be gauged by them.

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