Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Serjo » March 17th, 2017, 12:08 pm

67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Jozape » March 17th, 2017, 3:11 pm

Serjo wrote:67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?
I don't believe anyone has bought a billboard advertisement to whine about the game yet.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by acm » March 17th, 2017, 6:43 pm

Serjo wrote:67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?
Looking at the number of concurrent players on steamcharts, most "early" people on Steam finished playing by now, so that's the bottom. Maybe in a month or two the "I haven't played it yet, but I'm sure all criticism is baseless" faction will play eventually, but not sure if they will bother to write reviews. If the modifications to the game are good, some early reviewers might change their verdict to the better.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by migelpig » March 17th, 2017, 7:12 pm

Jozape wrote:
Serjo wrote:67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?
I don't believe anyone has bought a billboard advertisement to whine about the game yet.
I wonder how much $ you could get on kickstarter for a project like this. :D

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by nocoolnamejim » March 17th, 2017, 8:02 pm

Full disclosure: I have not fully played through the game yet. In fact, I'm only three hours in. And I'm enjoying the game so far. I have not reviewed or voted on the game on Steam because I don't believe doing so before you play it all the way through is fair or right.

Having said that, I highly doubt there's some organized conspiracy to downvote the game on Steam. But if there was, I'd still find it completely justified.

I was an Oddity Backer, which means I obviously paid more money than most to fund the game in question. So as I play the game and notice things that I paid for not IN the game, it will obviously impact my enjoyment of the game. Maybe other people work differently, but I won't be able to help but notice things like no player stronghold that I paid for.

That doesn't mean I won't evd up enjoying the game overall, but when you pay for something and get a cheap knockoff of what is promised, well, even if the cheap knockoff is still pretty good it's going to leave a sour taste in your mouth. IN PARTICULAR if things were added in that you didn't want and don't benefit from before the things you DID pay for get completely finished and the company you gave your money to blatantly did a 180 on some of the things that convinced you to give them your money.

Since it's probably pretty obvious what I'm referring to, I refer of course to adding a publisher and adding console versions of the game.

A publisher, I might add, who is going to end up taking roughly a month to get me my physical goods after release date. That's one lousy publisher. (Or alternatively if the fault is with inXile then we can add that to their list of problematic delivery given that they took several years longer than promised to deliver about 80% of what they promised and were paid for...)

But more to the point, there's no getting around the simple fact that every minute spent on things that were not part of the original kickstarter, such as managing a publisher relationship or getting console versions of the game ready, is a minute that was NOT spent on the things I DID pay for. We have received assurances that not a penny of the kickstarter funds went towards the console versions of things game. But what about other things? Time? Effort? Coding that could have been spent optimizing the PC version? Managing the relationship with the publisher and working through their feedback on the console versions?

If I sound a bit bitter and angry, particularly given that I haven't actually finished playing through the game yet, then this gets back to my original point. OF COURSE people are going to be expressing their frustrations!

Some of the biggest names in the PC RPG industry added their reputations to a project and people paid in advance based on that reputation. If you fail to deliver in every single way, from keeping your promises to not include a publisher, to adding unasked for console versions, to not including the content people paid in advance for based on your reputation, to HIDING the fact you're not going to deliver everything people paid for in advance, there's going to be a backlash.

It would, frankly, be really ignorant of human nature to expect otherwise.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Dork Mage » March 18th, 2017, 11:07 am

@nocoolnamejim - a very even-handed statement of backer complaints

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Serjo » March 29th, 2017, 9:14 am

acm wrote:
March 17th, 2017, 6:43 pm
Serjo wrote:67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?
Looking at the number of concurrent players on steamcharts, most "early" people on Steam finished playing by now, so that's the bottom.
Sadly, no. It hit 66% a few hours after the new patch came out.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Firkraag » March 29th, 2017, 6:12 pm

Still, 70% if you count the backers in.

Not 72%, as it were, though, but I wouldn't worry.
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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Dlig » March 30th, 2017, 12:17 pm

deleted post. Should read better. :-)

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Dlig » March 30th, 2017, 12:38 pm

Serjo wrote:
March 29th, 2017, 9:14 am
acm wrote:
March 17th, 2017, 6:43 pm
Serjo wrote:67% Steam score now. Where's the bottom?
Looking at the number of concurrent players on steamcharts, most "early" people on Steam finished playing by now, so that's the bottom.
Sadly, no. It hit 66% a few hours after the new patch came out.
My fault, sorry for that, at least that's the conclusion of some Torment dev that decided I was disturbing and providing too many negativity and I was leading people in my negative path. LOL. Funnier is Im' one of the rare who is trying see what's positive in the game. And mainly argue with players focused on harassing forum with posts only highlighting the negative. Ha well I suppose I'm a very influent person, dragging masses into my path, sigh would be first time ever in my life then. Sigh.

But no worry, as I won't disturb the Steam players anymore, the rate should sky rocket quickly to high values.

Common, the game gets what it deserves. I complain much more on players that more or less enjoyed play the game and end just list negative points. It makes wonder how they could have played it and enjoy it more or less.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Rink » March 31st, 2017, 10:57 am

Actually I would guess it to be only a few dozen people that cause the "mixed" rating on steam, and some guys that are upvoting many negative reviews.
From all the ratings on steam 70% are positive (1105 of 1573), but for the rating only steam purchasers are taken into account (so I guess this excludes everyone that kickstarted the game).
But well, today the ratings on steam are part of the marketing of the company, if you know how to manipulate the system, then you can do it for the better as well. It really isn't a good predictor for quality. But sadly people take it as just that.

I personally think it is silly, if someone has 50-80 hours on the game and then gives a negative review on steam. Who would play a game for so long if it is so bad? Would you read a 4-part-bookseries if it really wasn't any good as well instead of stopping after the first few chapters?
But with Torment there is more at stake than the game itself. If this game fails, then people like us will most likely not see another game that wants to dive into philosophical depths, that tries to capture this much creativity or literary quality again. So people can give the game a bad review if they didn't like it, but this also puts a final end to the genre that only includes P:T and T:ToN, and they should be aware of this.

I personally think ToN is the same quality game as P:T was, a game that I love and adore and it actually surpasses P:T in many aspects as well, but well, maybe my opinion is based on different expectations for the game.
I vastly enjoyed playing ToN, the incredibly well written dialogues, the creativity that builds this world and all inhabitants, the companions, the story, the lore. And even now with 110 hours in the game there are still new things to discover, new links between different memories to make, new philosophical questions to find behind artistic expressions. I would really like to see more games like this. Am I really so alone in this? Is my taste really that weird?
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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Kirinyale » April 2nd, 2017, 1:44 am

As a backer who've just finished the game, I'm very mad, as you can easily see from my other post nearby.

But I'm also quite mad at most other backers who are venting their disappointment into negative reviews. Seriously, reviews for potential buyers shouldn't be about what was promised - they should be about what is there. You just can't "not recommend" an RPG like this today.

That's why my steam review is a "recommend". And I'd really like T:ToN to get a positive rating eventually. That doesn't make me any less mad, but why should non-backers care about that...

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Ironlad » April 14th, 2017, 11:48 am

wait, you mean I can give a bad vote to a game I didn't bought on steam, just because after they announced the italian translation and get the money with the kickstarter they removed it? Wait...I will come back here in litlle time...

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Sashka loves Evan » April 15th, 2017, 5:07 pm

monocle wrote:
March 3rd, 2017, 11:05 pm
there is no manipulation. The game just doesn't stand up to the contribution made, expectations aroused and hype fed by the devs.

The story is unengaging.

The motivations don't exist.

Half of the promised content isn't there.

The NPC cast is NOWHERE near the PS:T cast.

The pacing is terrible.

The combat is a laggy parody of shadowrun combat, for "handcrafted" encounters shadowrun did it better.

The villian is nowhere near the transcendent one.

The quests are unmemorable. The only part I remember is the Children of the Endless gate climax.

No one tries to make tton fail, it fails splendidly by itself.

I have to strongly disagree, firstly this game is very new, I've beta tested several games and yes at the start there will always be problems, even when they think its good to go, patience, DDO was a hot mess upon release, fans snd testers gave feedback and it got patched.

Are there things that kind of disappointed me?
Of course, I wish all the areas on the map I got with the game were accessible, but I'm hoping in time that will be patched, I'm bummed the armor code I got is pretty much for glaives.
I wish I could customize my characters look.

BUT, I think the story is great and my very picky Marine liked this alot, despite the crashes etc. The graphics are nice (better than Baldurs Gate). You need to give games a chance, let them hear our input and I'm sure they'll do their best to remedy the situation.
Theres not much out there to play, thats rpg other than Gears of War (1-4), avoid Mass Effect Andromeda, that horrid game needed 6 more months of work before release ( that was a huge waste of $)
Unless you want to dosbox some old rpgs, or play the older Mass Effects, I've searched the xbox one store, its full of crud, unless you like crappy 1st person shooters where you get stuck HAVING to play multi-player w/obnoxious kiddies. There is not much iut there, at least on console, I work on computers all day , yes there's Pillars of Eternity, but to play a pc game when I work on pcs 8-12 hours a day? Meh. I can relax, play Torment and when I hit bugs I just reload, its not worth getting angry over. We have a big beautiful world outside, if you get frustrated, take a walk, enjoy God's beauty. But don't (please) slam companies that worked very hard to produce Torment, I am surrounded by devs, graphic artists ect, and these people work their a**es off to try to bring quality games to us. (exception, bioware, who have EA shrieking to make ME:A fast so it winds up being a huge mess, but they're a rotten exception) my point is being patient, stay calm, give them a chance to remedy things. :)

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by Matches_Malone » April 16th, 2017, 8:19 am

I've not played it seriously yet, but I suspect I will like it a lot. I was not a backer back then, but I was very intrigued by the project, and bought it day 1 (I'm waiting for the updates to play it properly, though).

That said, I think it's normal for people to feel disappointed with what happenened. It was veeeery uncool how they managed the information about the cuts. Personally, I also don't understand why they have put the game for consoles. I mean, I clearly understand the wish for moving to console market too, but precisely with Torment... I don't know. It feels weird.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it's perfectly normal and cool that people likes the game as it is. But is also perfectly normal for people to feel betrayed as backers and not liking the game for whatever the reasons.

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Re: Are disgruntled Kickstarter backers manipulating Steam reviews to make Torment fail?

Post by retroquark » April 17th, 2017, 12:23 am

I haven't even cared to download and update my copy on steam after what I saw in the beta.

Still waiting for the ability to read the script without having to actually suffer through the game.

Even though, unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the script would also be put together with the care of a stressed out archivist trying to rescue something they dropped into a shredder. That then obscures the main story-line and makes it even more unreadable on paper than in-game.

So feel free to direct your sales-pitches to the nearest wall in the future, inXile.

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