Sales numbers and chart watching thread

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IHaveHugeNick
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by IHaveHugeNick » March 5th, 2017, 6:50 pm

felipepepe wrote:
IHaveHugeNick wrote:
Serjo wrote:It's telling that Torment is selling armor DLC now after inXile went out of their way to mock the whole concept in Wasteland 2. This kind of drastic change in policy doesn't just come out of nowhere.
Yeah and amusingly enough, there seems to be a lot of people furious about that. Who woulda thought that I'll see the red boots joke backfire in that manner.
It's dangerous how these things pile up...

Five years ago InXile were spearheading the old-school RPG revival, bringing back old-school PC RPGs, talking to the community, blaming publishers for everything evil, making fun of DLCs, promising "open development", the RPG Codex raised $10,000 for the W2 Kickstarter, etc...

Now their RPGs are all multi-platform (with obvious compromises), they are making publisher deals and selling DLCs, "open development" became cutting promised content in secret, W2 was disappointing to a lot of people (myself included), the RPG Codex was blacklisted and had nothing but snark over W3's Fig campaign...

Old-school RPGs are a niche with a very faithful community. Look at SteamSpy's related page: people buying Torment all have PoE, W2, D:OS, Shadowrun, Tyranny... You don't need a massive scandal, losing supporters little by little and building resentment is enough.

I myself happily backed W2 and Numenera, but stopped there after hating W2 and seeing consoles & graphics become increasingly important.
Yeah, oh the old days. full of optimism. Fargo bursting on to the scene, dressed sharply, smooth-talking us all about evil publishers keeping the real gamers down, making funny videos mocking the entire concept of ingame items as DLC. Look how far we've come. I know InXile probably sold the rights to Techland to basically do what they want on consoles, but its still distasteful.
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by the_tormented » March 5th, 2017, 10:40 pm

IHaveHugeNick wrote:
felipepepe wrote:
IHaveHugeNick wrote: Yeah and amusingly enough, there seems to be a lot of people furious about that. Who woulda thought that I'll see the red boots joke backfire in that manner.
It's dangerous how these things pile up...

Five years ago InXile were spearheading the old-school RPG revival, bringing back old-school PC RPGs, talking to the community, blaming publishers for everything evil, making fun of DLCs, promising "open development", the RPG Codex raised $10,000 for the W2 Kickstarter, etc...

Now their RPGs are all multi-platform (with obvious compromises), they are making publisher deals and selling DLCs, "open development" became cutting promised content in secret, W2 was disappointing to a lot of people (myself included), the RPG Codex was blacklisted and had nothing but snark over W3's Fig campaign...

Old-school RPGs are a niche with a very faithful community. Look at SteamSpy's related page: people buying Torment all have PoE, W2, D:OS, Shadowrun, Tyranny... You don't need a massive scandal, losing supporters little by little and building resentment is enough.

I myself happily backed W2 and Numenera, but stopped there after hating W2 and seeing consoles & graphics become increasingly important.
Yeah, oh the old days. full of optimism. Fargo bursting on to the scene, dressed sharply, smooth-talking us all about evil publishers keeping the real gamers down, making funny videos mocking the entire concept of ingame items as DLC. Look how far we've come. I know InXile probably sold the rights to Techland to basically do what they want on consoles, but its still distasteful.
I'm an "old" gamer. I've been playing games religiously for the past twenty years. In that time, I've seen a lot of changes. But I have to say that I've become increasingly disillusioned with the industry, particularly over the course of the last ten years.

I remember not so long ago when Cliff Bleszinski, or CliffyB as he's known among the masses, made an emotional plea via a personal blog and social media decrying the evils of videogame publishers, microtransactions, etc. etc. Lo and behold, just a few years later, CliffyB is now working on a pay-to-win arena shooter. I am especially disgusted with how Konami, a developer I once respected, threw my one of my favorite videogame developers, Hideo Kojima, under the bus during the development of Metal Gear Solid V, in an obvious effort to sabotage the game and trash the reputation of Kojima, for clearly personal reasons.

Even though seeing well-intentioned and passionate developers selling out has become the norm, it doesn't get any easier to watch.

Having said all that, and despite numerous issues, I am enjoying TTON. I just hope inXile fixes it.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by KorganBloodAxe » March 5th, 2017, 11:48 pm

Wasteland 2:DC was everything I wanted it to be. This is coming from someone who played the original on C64 and I can't imagine a better translation into a modern engine.

I'm loving Torment so far as well - long may InXile prosper.
Serjo wrote:It's telling that Torment is selling armor DLC now after inXile went out of their way to mock the whole concept in Wasteland 2. This kind of drastic change in policy doesn't just come out of nowhere.
"Drastic"? Care to be any more of a drama queen? They aren't even selling it on PC - it would be a "small" change in policy at best.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Serjo » March 6th, 2017, 2:38 am

KorganBloodAxe wrote:They aren't even selling it on PC - it would be a "small" change in policy at best.
If the Steamspy numbers are any indication, then the PC version will only be a footnote in Torment's development. Unless the game has tanked on all platforms, the PS4 version will sell more copies and be remembered by more people.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by swdgame » March 6th, 2017, 10:49 pm

I think teaming up with Techland might be the biggest mistake inXile made. Paradox is the go-to publisher for this kind of games. And if they really want to get it onto consoles, they can always try to impress Sony and get help directly.

Techland just came out of nowhere. and they did terrible jobs. Bad console port aside, I have seen almost no media coverage for TTON after launch. And choosing a launch day between Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda, Nier Automata, which are all excellent AAA RPG with tons of PR, is just crazy.

InXile, please. Just break up with Techland and call Paradox. He'll understand and take you back.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by anonymous6059 » March 7th, 2017, 6:20 am

I'll admit I'm a bit confused. Did the game's rating drop almost 10% in a week? Is it now teetering on having a "mixed" review status? Once a game is labeled as crap does it ever redeem itself? If Inxile actually added 25% of the cut content to the game and fixed the bugs would it have a chance of rising or is this ship just going to sink? :cry:
https://steamdb.info/app/272270/graphs/
Image
I personally don't feel like I can rate this game positively or negatively. Its something I know most people won't enjoy, but something I still am enjoying quite a lot. I know that its a shell of a game though and I can feel the hollow tinge of empty promises. Somehow I still am able to appreciate the story that remains intact, especially thanks to the fantastic novellas. However, that isn't enough for me to dare encourage most gamers to purchase. So, instead I'm standing on the sidelines watching the ship slowly sink.
Last edited by anonymous6059 on March 7th, 2017, 6:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Insolentius » March 7th, 2017, 6:24 am

anonymous6059 wrote:I'll admit I'm a bit confused. Did the game's rating drop almost 10% in a week? Is it now teetering on having a "mixed" review status?
https://steamdb.info/app/272270/graphs/
The game is a buggy mess, and all we've heard so far is some PR fluff by Brian regarding upcoming updates. For me, the game isn't playable, and that's reflected in my 'review'.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Lix » March 7th, 2017, 12:08 pm

UK console charts for last week (Sunday to Saturday):

https://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp ... &ct=110015

Torment didn't make it into the top 40. Its strongest competition was Horizon Zero Dawn, which was branded as an RPG, launched on the same day as Torment, and immediately topped the charts. Torment also sold fewer copies than Fallout 4, Dishonored 2, or Skyrim Special Edition this week, even though it considerably outperformed these games on Steam.

All signs point to the Torment console editions selling considerably fewer copies than the Steam edition.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Serjo » March 7th, 2017, 12:32 pm

Wasteland 2: DC got to #36 when it came out ( https://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp ... 15&week=42 )

Maybe the console market is tougher right now than it was in 2015...

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Jozape » March 7th, 2017, 12:47 pm

swdgame wrote:I think teaming up with Techland might be the biggest mistake inXile made. Paradox is the go-to publisher for this kind of games. And if they really want to get it onto consoles, they can always try to impress Sony and get help directly.

Techland just came out of nowhere. and they did terrible jobs. Bad console port aside, I have seen almost no media coverage for TTON after launch. And choosing a launch day between Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda, Nier Automata, which are all excellent AAA RPG with tons of PR, is just crazy.

InXile, please. Just break up with Techland and call Paradox. He'll understand and take you back.
I don't know how good of a publisher Paradox is, but I agree that Techland partnership was a really big mistake for the reasons you listed. Furthermore: AMD, Nintendo, and Nvidia were crazily hyping their new hardware to release the same week! With no traditional marketing, there was no way Torment could compete for sales.

And then there was the combination of inXile's incompetence in interacting with their backers and the Disney gamers that believe game development moves in a straight and predictable line with all features at conception being implemented for the final product.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by IHaveHugeNick » March 7th, 2017, 1:00 pm

Yeah, it's a combination of things.

Very tough launch week, with number of RPG-lite AAA titles. Bad atmosphere around InXile and intense negativity from substantial part of the fanbase (not completely unwarranted I might add). InXile not communicating with community, as per usual. Techland shitting the bed. The game itself being very niche in an already niche genre, and somewhat disappointing. Disappointment was perhaps inevitable, it's a good game, but PS:T it is not.

And now for some reason every RPG on the planet seems to have gone on sale, so they are currently being outsold by Pillars and Divinity:OS.

All in all, it's part incompetence, part bad luck, and part bad timing, Right now I'm afraid it has to be considered a commercial flop, the sales seem very slow and in two weeks Mass Effect Andromeda is going to clean the market off RPG players with full wallets and spare time. And by the time it clears up, Torment will disappear off the map, and likely not come back until it shows up in bargain bin.

I'm sure it will make decent profit eventually, these games continue to sell for years, but yeah, this could've, should've gone much better.
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by felipepepe » March 7th, 2017, 2:52 pm

Jozape wrote:Disney gamers that believe game development moves in a straight and predictable line with all features at conception being implemented for the final product.
Really? You're blaming backers for believing when one of the most experiences producers in the industry promises he can deliver X with Y money?

I suppose we're also wrong for believing in all that "open development" thing Fargo hypes every time he opens his mouth, then getting pissed off when we find out A LOT was cut without a single explanation. And that even after the "scandal" forced InXile's hand they weren't entirely open. What happened to the live orchestra, for example?

People been saying this since 2012, but look at how better Larian is at this. There's a video of their CEO explaining every singe thing that's is happening, keeping the community together, showing new features, apologizing for cuts, etc...

Instead, Fargo writes checks he can't cash and uses the press to convince gamers that inXile is great at "open development". :roll:
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Jordan Joestar » March 7th, 2017, 5:26 pm

I'm playing Torment Tides Of Numenera on Steam. Ok, I played just 9 hours but it's nice and with tons of dialogues. It's early for a review but at the moment I'm satisfied.
Well, I'm waiting for my physical Collector's Edition but I can wait. :D
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Jozape » March 7th, 2017, 8:31 pm

felipepepe wrote:
Jozape wrote:Disney gamers that believe game development moves in a straight and predictable line with all features at conception being implemented for the final product.
Really? You're blaming backers for believing when one of the most experiences producers in the industry promises he can deliver X with Y money?
Yes. Basically every game has cuts due to costs or design, and that was no exception at Interplay and subsequently inXile before KickStarter. What we knew when we backed inXile's games is that their history suggested they could make a role-playing game in the classical sense, and they did. Don't pretend you had any reason to expect more than that.
I suppose we're also wrong for believing in all that "open development" thing Fargo hypes every time he opens his mouth, then getting pissed off when we find out A LOT was cut without a single explanation. And that even after the "scandal" forced InXile's hand they weren't entirely open. What happened to the live orchestra, for example?
You won't see any disagreement from me about inXile's backer communication. I even mentioned inXile's incompetence here, but you conveniently cut ;) that out when quoting me.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Serjo » March 8th, 2017, 11:30 am

Colin is hinting that the future of the franchise might depend on Steam reviews:
You want more? Drop us a kind review on Steam and convince others to buy the game. ;)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Torment/commen ... e/deo0iqj/

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Romanfiend » March 8th, 2017, 12:30 pm

anonymous6059 wrote:I'll admit I'm a bit confused. Did the game's rating drop almost 10% in a week? Is it now teetering on having a "mixed" review status? Once a game is labeled as crap does it ever redeem itself? If Inxile actually added 25% of the cut content to the game and fixed the bugs would it have a chance of rising or is this ship just going to sink? :cry:
https://steamdb.info/app/272270/graphs/
Image
I personally don't feel like I can rate this game positively or negatively. Its something I know most people won't enjoy, but something I still am enjoying quite a lot. I know that its a shell of a game though and I can feel the hollow tinge of empty promises. Somehow I still am able to appreciate the story that remains intact, especially thanks to the fantastic novellas. However, that isn't enough for me to dare encourage most gamers to purchase. So, instead I'm standing on the sidelines watching the ship slowly sink.

This game is really pretty terrible. The writing is the main problem with combat mechanics being a close second. And no, games do not bounce back after they get negatively reviewed on steam. Console gamers are not going to save this title - that is a crazy fever dream - porting was a whole lot of wasted money.

As far as the writing I would describe it as sophomoric and shallow. Way too much exposition with little substance or philosophy. Weak character development.

For the record - I love me some good writing. I have a degree in 18th century poetry and lit, read constantly, loved the original, blah blah blah.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by anonymous6059 » March 8th, 2017, 2:29 pm

Romanfiend wrote:As far as the writing I would describe it as sophomoric and shallow. Way too much exposition with little substance or philosophy. Weak character development.

For the record - I love me some good writing. I have a degree in 18th century poetry and lit, read constantly, loved the original, blah blah blah.
sophomoric is a great word. That is exactly how I felt. In the valley of dead heroes when Phoenixstarts gabbing about "philosophy" I could barely stomach it. I'd really expected something deep or at least edgy. I'm also really getting tired of how "everyone" in this game has some sort of mental issue or apparent mental problems. They all seem to have spilt personality disorder or talk to rocks. It was interesting on the first 3 characters. Now its just getting old. The most interesting NPC was the bug man back at the entrance to Circus minor called Partha at the very beginning of the game. A lot of the flavor text is completely meaningless as well. It really doesn't reward players enough and so I understand why so many people are just skimming now.
Last edited by anonymous6059 on March 8th, 2017, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Woolfe » March 8th, 2017, 3:17 pm

Romanfiend wrote: This game is really pretty terrible. The writing is the main problem with combat mechanics being a close second. And no, games do not bounce back after they get negatively reviewed on steam. Console gamers are not going to save this title - that is a crazy fever dream - porting was a whole lot of wasted money.

As far as the writing I would describe it as sophomoric and shallow. Way too much exposition with little substance or philosophy. Weak character development.

For the record - I love me some good writing. I have a degree in 18th century poetry and lit, read constantly, loved the original, blah blah blah.
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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by Romanfiend » March 8th, 2017, 5:10 pm

Woolfe wrote:
Romanfiend wrote: This game is really pretty terrible. The writing is the main problem with combat mechanics being a close second. And no, games do not bounce back after they get negatively reviewed on steam. Console gamers are not going to save this title - that is a crazy fever dream - porting was a whole lot of wasted money.

As far as the writing I would describe it as sophomoric and shallow. Way too much exposition with little substance or philosophy. Weak character development.

For the record - I love me some good writing. I have a degree in 18th century poetry and lit, read constantly, loved the original, blah blah blah.
Weren't you "Done"?
Woolfe, Am I upsetting you? Do you need me to be (done)?

I have been waiting a long time and invested significant money and trust with the expectation of something that didn't happen. I have a right to be upset and to communicate that frustration with the people that were entrusted to do a good job. I thought that Brian Fargo of all people understood the legacy he was working with here - and I was clearly mistaken on that score.

I want to invite you to consider what your own motivations for being puerile and dismissive might be? Thus far you have contributed nothing - provided no counterarguments - and I get that. You are likely highly invested in the idea of this being a success and maybe past the point that you can evaluate it fairly and objectively. Even so it's not my job to change your mind - if this does it for you - good for you. Ignore me. Clearly we had different expectations.

Although considering that this game is more a Novella than an actual game - it might be interesting to submit it to people who's job it is to review books and literature. I wonder what they would think of the writing. See most writing flaws are not subjective - provided you know how to evaluate things. For example some storytellers are bad writers (very common) and some great writers are poor storytellers (less common). The problem here is that TToN is both bad storytelling and bad writing - and it's supposed to be an RPG!

And because I am the kind of person who likes to find the foundation of a problem, I am left wondering how this happened. Chris Avellone was involved, Brian Fargo was involved, they had resources...so what happened here?

TToN is failing - it has failed. It is going to fail so badly that there won't be another Torment nor will anyone likely try this again. How did this happen?

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Re: Sales numbers and chart watching thread

Post by felipepepe » March 8th, 2017, 5:33 pm

Romanfiend wrote:TToN is failing - it has failed. It is going to fail so badly that there won't be another Torment nor will anyone likely try this again.
I doubt it. Numenera was already a Torment in name alone - it was never about the setting or characters, having AAA production values or necessarily having Chris Avellone, so nothing's stopping an indie studio or anyone else from making another Torment sucessor.

I look at something like No Truce with the Furies and see something that might hit a lot closer to the original Planecape: Torment than Numenera - as in thoughtful writing and interesting moral dilemas, instead of just "Wow, we have a wacky setting! So random, LOL! Read all about it!"
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