Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by vv221 » February 7th, 2017, 10:57 am

Please let’s stop the personnal attacks before it gets too hot, or I will be forced to close this thread…

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Lordy » February 8th, 2017, 9:03 am

I've got areply from Eric on monday, stating that in 2-3 days i should have a new key delivered...

...waiting...

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 9th, 2017, 5:59 am

From a new interview:
It’s been almost four years since the Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter campaign closed on a record-breaking $4 million in funding – more than $3 million over target. How much has the scope of the game and the development process changed in comparison with the original vision since then?

[George] A lot. In the original writers’ meeting back in 2013, we laid out a very ambitious vision that was unrealistically huge (this isn’t uncommon in the games industry – we’re pretty passionate about the work we do). We had to dial back our scope a few times, and the story also evolved as we went along. We went through several major rewrites, but each time, the game got tighter and better.
https://www.nag.co.za/2017/02/08/you-ca ... interview/

As far as I can tell, this is inXile's first admission that the pitch they took to Kickstarter was "unrealistic". But they still need to tell us which parts of the pitch and which stretch goals actually made it into the game.

And if they dialled back the scope "a few times", they must have started cutting quite early in development. Why wait so long to tell us?

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Woolfe » February 9th, 2017, 3:36 pm

Because they don't have a community manager. The Community manager is a two way street. They not only tell us stuff, but they give InXile insight into how we react, and can advise on whether or not releasing the information early is better than late.
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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 9th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Woolfe wrote:Because they don't have a community manager. The Community manager is a two way street. They not only tell us stuff, but they give InXile insight into how we react, and can advise on whether or not releasing the information early is better than late.
They used to have a "community manager type" in Brother None, but apparently he quit/was let go.
I've been engaged with inXile in an officious way for some time now, kinda working as a community manager type, but my workload kept increasing and Brian saw some potential here, so it made sense to bring me on board to work for them. Since a short while ago, I'm a line producer for inXile, doing production, Kickstarter and community interaction stuff for both WL2 and Torment.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... tcount=173
"Kickstarter and community interaction stuff" would be helpful right about now.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Skyleaf » February 9th, 2017, 7:43 pm

Lordy wrote:I've got areply from Eric on monday, stating that in 2-3 days i should have a new key delivered...

...waiting...
Good for you. Hopefully, an Italian localization will follow suit a few months down the road. :)

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Woolfe » February 9th, 2017, 7:45 pm

Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:Because they don't have a community manager. The Community manager is a two way street. They not only tell us stuff, but they give InXile insight into how we react, and can advise on whether or not releasing the information early is better than late.
They used to have a "community manager type" in Brother None, but apparently he quit/was let go.
Could be news to him, being that he posted in the last couple of days.

Also he hasn't been in a Community manager role for ages. Even before I disappeared on my year long hiatus, if he was still doing it then, it was on the side, and not his primary focus. Sear has somewhat taken it on, but I don't think it is a primary role for him either.
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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 9th, 2017, 7:55 pm

Woolfe wrote:
Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:Because they don't have a community manager. The Community manager is a two way street. They not only tell us stuff, but they give InXile insight into how we react, and can advise on whether or not releasing the information early is better than late.
They used to have a "community manager type" in Brother None, but apparently he quit/was let go.
Could be news to him, being that he posted in the last couple of days.

Also he hasn't been in a Community manager role for ages. Even before I disappeared on my year long hiatus, if he was still doing it then, it was on the side, and not his primary focus. Sear has somewhat taken it on, but I don't think it is a primary role for him either.
Yeah, I see. But sear isn't really answering any of our questions either... I really wish we could get someone knowledgeable to post here.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Jernaugh » February 10th, 2017, 1:28 am

Serjo wrote: Why wait so long to tell us?
I'd add that hindsight is 20/20. Sure, it seems obvious now that telling us would have been the correct move - keeping up transparency, engendering honest communication etc.. But when the question came up, there are many reasons why it might have been decided in this way. Perhaps it only became clear that things would definitively not be getting in fairly late, as people held out hope for a long time that content might yet be implemented, and when it was finally decided, it happened in an environment where other issues were far more pressing and attention-getting than community communication - so the question was never raised because nobody thought to raise it. Or there was a simple feeling of shame coupled with a fear of what repercussions might result for the company - sure, it would have been better to bite the bullet, but can anyone here say they never made that same wrong decision?

Hell, a decent case could probably have been made to keep all the cuts secret so they could surprise us with a Director's Cut edition further down the line. Of course all of this decision-making would have been flawed, but that's easy for us to say with hindsight and from an external perspective. Humans make bad decisions. It's a thing. When a company does so, consumers decide whether to go elsewhere or whether to cut them some slack.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Lordy » February 10th, 2017, 1:59 am

....i'm still waiting for a CD Key i did pay almost 300$...

...nothing arrived...it should have required 1-2 days.

It's almost a week...(their answer is dated Sunday the 5th)

Losing faith completely...if they really wanted to send it they could have done real time while answering me.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Woolfe » February 10th, 2017, 2:22 am

Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:
Serjo wrote:
They used to have a "community manager type" in Brother None, but apparently he quit/was let go.
Could be news to him, being that he posted in the last couple of days.

Also he hasn't been in a Community manager role for ages. Even before I disappeared on my year long hiatus, if he was still doing it then, it was on the side, and not his primary focus. Sear has somewhat taken it on, but I don't think it is a primary role for him either.
Yeah, I see. But sear isn't really answering any of our questions either... I really wish we could get someone knowledgeable to post here.
I'll tell you that its not because they don't want to. Generally they fully understand people's frustration even when they think it is unwarranted or over the top.

The problem is, they are limited in what they can say because, unfortunately things can and will be taken out of context and to extremes. Just look at the levels people are going to dissect any comments or interviews at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I believe it is because of the lack of feedback that has driven people to these lengths, but at the same time I don't blame Sear or BN or any of the others. A proper community manager really is a busy job. You are generally dealing with the most extremes of folks and trying to head off issues before they explode into something worse than they really are.
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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 10th, 2017, 4:25 am

Woolfe wrote:The problem is, they are limited in what they can say because, unfortunately things can and will be taken out of context and to extremes. Just look at the levels people are going to dissect any comments or interviews at the moment.
If they came out today and said "All the other stretch goals are still in the game," I would struggle to see how that could be "taken out of context and to extremes".

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Jernaugh » February 10th, 2017, 4:53 am

Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:The problem is, they are limited in what they can say because, unfortunately things can and will be taken out of context and to extremes. Just look at the levels people are going to dissect any comments or interviews at the moment.
If they came out today and said "All the other stretch goals are still in the game," I would struggle to see how that could be "taken out of context and to extremes".

Really? I don't struggle to see that at all. For example, say they made that statement. Now say that the stretch goals are all in the game, but not with the same scope or focus or details that were originally communicated. Don't you think somebody would bring that statement together with the perceived "lack"?

And the worst part is, this would even happen if the stretch goal had been met perfectly satisfactorily by most peoples' standards! It only takes a few people who feel betrayed to make a big issue. Sometimes that may be justified, but often enough it isn't. Even outrage based on demonstrably incorrect facts can spiral out of control and do a lot of damage before the truth of the matter gets out.

No, I don't have any trouble believing that a quick, off-the-cuff statement like that wouldn't be made in an atmosphere like this, even if most people would agree with it after release.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by anonymous6059 » February 10th, 2017, 5:00 am

Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:The problem is, they are limited in what they can say because, unfortunately things can and will be taken out of context and to extremes. Just look at the levels people are going to dissect any comments or interviews at the moment.
If they came out today and said "All the other stretch goals are still in the game," I would struggle to see how that could be "taken out of context and to extremes".
People might start assuming that certain things in the game like "The jagged Dream" will be in the game. The jagged dream was never one of the mentioned factions and it isn't technically a stretch goal. This is a good indication that some of what you're datamining is extremely dated. Something like The Jagged Dream could of been cut way back in 2014.

btw, I think that the Explorer's Guide may contain many of the answers.
The Explorer's Guide list 5 cults:
  • Children of the Endless Gate [can be seen in trailers]
  • cult of the changing god [exist in beta]
  • Dendra O'hur[exist in beta]
  • Extremities of the Great Devourer
  • Order of Flagellants and Austerities
I'd focus on getting answers to whether or not these 5 cults are in the game instead. I want answers too. I just don't think general and vague answers will suffice. They need to specifically tell us what is and isn't in the game.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 10th, 2017, 5:07 am

Jernaugh wrote:Really? I don't struggle to see that at all. For example, say they made that statement. Now say that the stretch goals are all in the game, but not with the same scope or focus or details that were originally communicated. Don't you think somebody would bring that statement together with the perceived "lack"?
Why should we assume that they were not implemented "with the same scope or focus or details that were originally communicated"? You're making assumptions about cutbacks and scale-downs that haven't been announced. It's very much possible that all the remaining stretch goals have been implemented as announced, and I fail to see what harm would be done by the developers telling us about this. And a Kickstarter update on the recording of the orchestral soundtrack could really lift people's spirits around here.
No, I don't have any trouble believing that a quick, off-the-cuff statement like that wouldn't be made in an atmosphere like this, even if most people would agree with it after release.
I don't follow. Do you mean that inXile are unable to say "everything is going well and we've kept all of these promises" because the atmosphere isn't right for it?

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Jernaugh » February 10th, 2017, 5:13 am

Precisely. To put things a different way, I think that if inXile reassures people in such a blanket fashion as you are suggesting, and people then see stretch goal content in the game that conflicts with their subjective expectations of what that stretch goal was supposed to be, they will get angry and feel betrayed for being "falsely reassured". Unfortunately, inXile's control of what people expect from the stretch goals is limited at this point.

This would be less of a problem if there wasn't already so much "they are liars"-sentiment flying around, so earlier communication could have prevented this. But now, I see this as a very real risk.

I don't think they can address these issues without going into a fair amount of detail, even if they themselves feel like they've implemented every stretch goal perfectly.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Woolfe » February 10th, 2017, 3:04 pm

Serjo wrote:
Woolfe wrote:The problem is, they are limited in what they can say because, unfortunately things can and will be taken out of context and to extremes. Just look at the levels people are going to dissect any comments or interviews at the moment.
If they came out today and said "All the other stretch goals are still in the game," I would struggle to see how that could be "taken out of context and to extremes".
I agree... But I am in the same position as you. I think they have made a mistake not advising, and it may well be that they have just been too busy doing other shit and have neglected the community, hence my call for a community manager.

But BN and Sear for example, in the past they have been instrumental in getting issues resolved, but they have bosses and other priorities and their bosses have other priorities etc. So something suffers, and Community management is an area it suffers.

Also and I hate to say this, but ultimately once the game is released and people are playing it, a lot of this controversy will simply evaporate.
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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Lordy » February 15th, 2017, 7:44 am

Just a brief update...

After Eric's Promise to give me back my CD Key, in about 24-48 hours, key which was "for mistake"removed (the reason was: because many italians asked for refund, you were put in that list as well by mistake), nobody from inxile messaged me or gave me back my CD KEY. It's now 12 days. nobody as well is answering to my emails...


An Italian Customer/pledger Cypher Collection $275 which, at present, lost completetly his faith in Inxile.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Serjo » February 15th, 2017, 3:48 pm

The devs have sat down for an extensive interview with the store magazine of the video game retailer AWX. This is basically just advertising, but here's the part that's relevant for the thread:
Q:How big of an effect did the stretch goals have on development? In particular to core design concepts.

A: [Colin] Pitching a game is very, very different from developing the game. Even with the months of preparation we did for the Kickstarter, we were still unprepared to answer some of the questions that arose during the course of crowdfunding. We launched during the early days of Kickstarter, really, and stretch goals were largely a new concept at the time. We were ambitious and we over-extended ourselves on some of those stretch goals — optimistic cost and time projections became problematic later. We hit the majority of our goals, but we had to sacrifice some of them (like a couple companions, which made me sad) in order to create a better overall experience through the rest of the game. The most important goals, both to me personally and to the backers we heard from, were the targets for deeper story and reactivity. Those were the ones that guided us most through our development."

https://www.awx.co.za/nexus/torment-tid ... rview.html
The most important stretch goals for me personally were The Toy and the 16 Legacies + Foci. Has the Legacy systen been cut? Will there be more than 3 Foci to choose from in the release version? Only inXile know the answers, and they're keeping silent.

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Re: Colin McComb apologizes for missed stretch goals - "We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Post by Lordy » February 15th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Update,

CD Key just received with an extra key to 2004 bard's tale. This doesn't solve completely my issue...but, honestly, it's a good step in the right direction.

Thanks
L.

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