The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

For all Torment discussion that does not fit elsewhere. No spoilers allowed.

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Grotesque
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The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Grotesque » January 27th, 2017, 1:58 pm

I would appreciate if someone from inXile would consult the list with the promised campaign stretchgoals and tells us what changes it suffered.
Many questions would be answered and it would be a show of transparency and healthy communication from the part of a game studio that prides itself in having a close and normal relation with its supporters.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Lix » January 27th, 2017, 2:03 pm

I've been meaning to ask about the 16 Legacies for a while now - are they confirmed to be in the game? Here's the description from the Kickstarter page:
At our target funding, we envisioned six Legacies: one for each Tide, and then a sixth for those who have no dominant Tide. Your Legacy (and the Tides) has a variety of impacts on both gameplay and on interactions in dialogue. For example, certain items will provide different abilities depending upon your Legacy, and your Legacy also affects what focus you master. Your Legacy might draw others to you, or make them wary of you. As your actions affect the Tides, you can choose to adopt a new Legacy and embrace your decisions or you can resist their pull – for a while, at least. Some NPCs and creatures will notice and react to the Tidal impact on your Legacy, with some reacting favorably and others... not so much.

Six Legacies yields a lot of potential for reactivity and choices and consequences. But at this Stretch Goal, we take the system much further. Instead of depending only upon one Tide, your Legacy will be based upon your strongest TWO. This increases the number of Legacies to 11 (ten possible pairs, plus an eleventh for when no two reign supreme). By almost doubling the number of Legacies, we unlock many more options for gameplay and opportunities for the world and its people to respond to your choices. Your Legacy can change throughout the game, and doubling the number of Legacies doesn’t double the gameplay time. But it does have a tremendous impact on how reactive and replayable Torment will be. That makes this game a deeper, richer experience and provides you with a host more options to consider and explore as you seek your answer to Torment’s core question. Naturally, this also means that we’ll be creating even more cool, unique items and effects that respond specifically to the paths you’ve chosen.
Another question: the blurb mentions that your Legacy affects the selection of Foci available to you, which sounds quite different from how Foci are implemented in the EA version. Will this all work differently in the final release?

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Grotesque » January 27th, 2017, 2:17 pm

So far what we know is that:
- the toy and two other companions are cut
- Oasis of M'ra Jolios is not a major city and heavily reduced in scope
- Voluminous Codex will be a .pdf
- Italian localization is no more




Possibly cut/delayed- a speculation:

- Mark Morgan live orchestra music
- Castoff’s Labyrinth: Secret Meres
- Crafting Numenera
- developer commentary Let’s Play of Planescape: Torment
- Castoff’s Labyrinth: Lacunae
- Brian Mitsoda?
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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Serjo » January 27th, 2017, 2:38 pm

When you read a goal like "New Area: Ossiphagan", would you expect that to be a "full" in-game area, or would you be satisfied if it were just a mere?

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Aramintai » January 27th, 2017, 3:06 pm

I'm surprised more backers are not coming forth here to question cut content. Devs raised so much money in no small part because of those titillating stretch goals and it seems many of them were cut. This is a deception no matter how you look at this and as a backer I've a right to be angry at this. I hope more backers will voice their opinion on the matter once the game releases and everyone will see what's missing. I hope it will serve a lesson to the devs in the end not to come with false promises they can't keep. I, for one, am not gonna back any more games from these devs any time soon.
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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Serjo » January 27th, 2017, 3:12 pm

Brian Mitsoda is still listed as an "additional" writer in the EA credits, but that doesn't mean too much in itself:

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It would be nice to know if any of his content made it into the final version of the game.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by sparkee666 » January 27th, 2017, 6:11 pm

I'm disappointed that InXile is going to make cuts to their promised content and not reveal what it is till game release.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Grotesque » January 27th, 2017, 7:28 pm

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I guess is fair to also mention that is also #1 RPG at the number of promised and cut features.
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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by kilobug » January 28th, 2017, 12:28 am

Grotesque wrote:I guess is fair to also mention that is also #1 RPG at the number of promised and cut features.
To be fair it's a Torment game... PsT also was massively cut (especially in the second half of the game) ! ;)

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Named » January 28th, 2017, 8:32 am

C'mon! To be fair 5+m Achiewed! After the premiere. We should settle all their promises.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by jeska » January 28th, 2017, 8:56 am

Is this à common practice to cut funded goals?

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Serjo » January 28th, 2017, 9:01 am

jeska wrote:Is this à common practice to cut funded goals?
All I'm aware of is Larian cutting one goal for Original Sin. So far, we know of five cut stretch goals and one cut part of the base goal (Italian translation) for Torment. And I think there's more to come - Mark Morgan orchestral soundtrack is very likely gone too, since there's been no news about it and the game has already gone gold. If there was an orchestral soundtrack we'd have heard (literally) about it by now.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by SagaDC » January 28th, 2017, 9:16 am

Unfortunately, "feature creep" is a very real problem when it comes to Kickstarter campaigns. Doubly so when it comes to early Kickstarter campaigns like this one, back when most developers didn't realize how dangerous it was. It extends development time and increases development costs, often beyond what the developer anticipated, resulting in features ultimately being cut due to lack of time and/or money.

Torment is clearly a good example of feature creep gone wrong, though it's at least still seeing release with some of the stretch goals still included. That's more than can be said for many other projects that have fallen prey to feature creep.

We can always hope that at least some of the missing goals will be implemented in future free content patches.
Serjo wrote:
jeska wrote:Is this à common practice to cut funded goals?
All I'm aware of is Larian cutting one goal for Original Sin.
Original Sin definitely ran into issues with feature creep as well, because it launched with a few missing goals. Some of these were added into the game in later patches.

They only had two of the four promised companions, for example, but the two missing companions were later added as post-release content. The "Lair Beneath the Phantom Forest", a ten-floor dungeon, was ultimately cut from the game and the handful of finished parts of the dungeon were instead split up and spread out over the rest of the game world as smaller dungeons. The NPC Schedule was completely cut from the game, and I believe it was later mentioned that it would have just taken too much time and money for them to properly implement.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Au_I » January 28th, 2017, 9:30 am

Grotesque wrote:- Mark Morgan live orchestra music
We contacted Morgan about the soundtrack yesterday. If he answers, we'll inform you.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Lix » January 28th, 2017, 9:59 am

The biggest RPG news site is doing a Skype interview with the Torment dev team. They're asking for questions here:

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35533

A chance to ask about some of the stretch goals?

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Lix » January 28th, 2017, 11:32 am

At least one Gamergate-affliated website has been reporting on the stretch goals, with the result that this concern is now being framed as a "Gamergate vs. liberal developers" issue (see here)

I want to stress that I and many other posters in the inXile forums are just interested in answers about the state of a crowfunded project and have no political axe to grind.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Jayne Veidt » January 28th, 2017, 11:37 am

Lix wrote:The worst RPG news site is doing a Skype interview with the Torment dev team. They're asking for questions here:

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35533

A chance to ask about some of the stretch goals?
It's INSANE this all hasn't been explained RIGHT HERE! This is their board! 'a chance to ask,' give me a break.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Serjo » January 28th, 2017, 11:53 am

Jayne Veidt wrote:
Lix wrote:The worst RPG news site is doing a Skype interview with the Torment dev team. They're asking for questions here:

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35533

A chance to ask about some of the stretch goals?
It's INSANE this all hasn't been explained RIGHT HERE! This is their board! 'a chance to ask,' give me a break.
The developers are usually too busy working on the game to post on social media. The RPGWatch interview is a special event where they have allocated a few minutes of their time specifically to answer fan questions.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Jayne Veidt » January 28th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Oh they're too busy! Well then it's fine. No problem. They should just take their time. Get back to us whenever! Or not! Honestly, we should really feel absolutely blessed they're willing to tell us ANYTHING.

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Re: The stretch-goals that are in and the ones are out?

Post by Serjo » January 28th, 2017, 12:27 pm

It's being reported on r/Games:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments ... l_content/

I see a lot of clear-headed people posting in support of inXile in these comments, so I don't think this episode will hurt their image in any way.

But there are also clear expectations now:
I bet they'll release a director's cut edition like they did with Wasteland, which will include a lot of the cut content.
Cut from launch? or Cut completely?

Because if it's only from launch and they intend to add in that content after launch in order to save money and keep the project alive that is essential information.

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