Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by anonymous6059 » January 28th, 2017, 5:26 am

I don't really see what would be so difficult about implementing this on PC.
My question is if this was specifically cut because it wouldn't work on console. I of course have nothing to indicate that is the truth, but something tells me that is how this happened. Trying to manage something like the codex with a controller, where you can't type and easily add information, seems to be the real reason this wasn't implemented.

I don't see any other reason. So that has me pretty ill. It just looks like one more way that porting the game dumbed it down. I'd love to know if I'm wrong though. What other reasons could explain the decision to not add this? I do not see any... :?

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by D-D » January 28th, 2017, 5:29 am

anonymous6059 wrote:I don't really see what would be so difficult about implementing this on PC.
My question is if this was specifically cut because it wouldn't work on console. I of course have nothing to indicate that is the truth, but something tells me that is how this happened. Trying to manage something like the codex with a controller, where you can't type and easily add information, seems to be the real reason this wasn't implemented.
They said it was gonna be highly cutomizable so it would have worked just as well with keyboard and controller

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by anonymous6059 » January 28th, 2017, 8:10 am

D-D wrote:
anonymous6059 wrote:I don't really see what would be so difficult about implementing this on PC.
My question is if this was specifically cut because it wouldn't work on console. I of course have nothing to indicate that is the truth, but something tells me that is how this happened. Trying to manage something like the codex with a controller, where you can't type and easily add information, seems to be the real reason this wasn't implemented.
They said it was gonna be highly cutomizable so it would have worked just as well with keyboard and controller
Perhaps. Though I thought it would of worked in a similar way as the one used in PST. Basically, you could type in your own notes. That would be rather difficult with most controllers. What exactly was or wasn't supposed to be in the codex is rather vague and perhaps note taking was never meant to be part of the codex. It just comes off as the main reason that I can see for not including it.

Maybe it really wouldn't of been simply too difficult, but again I don't see how. It amazes me how they could do this stuff almost 20 years ago, but can't today. So my first thought is that it must be because it conflicts with something else (console).

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Lix » January 28th, 2017, 8:20 am

anonymous6059 wrote:It amazes me how they could do this stuff almost 20 years ago, but can't today. So my first thought is that it must be because it conflicts with something else (console).
InXile poured a lot of money into their New Orleans studio while Torment's development was going on. Maybe they overextended.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by MrBuzzKill » February 3rd, 2017, 10:24 pm

The fact that it has been reduced to a mere "outside blah blah whatever" really SUCKS. I was looking forward to the game having this feature. It's not a deal-breaker but man am I pissed.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Luckmann » February 6th, 2017, 10:21 am

MrBuzzKill wrote:The fact that it has been reduced to a mere "outside blah blah whatever" really SUCKS. I was looking forward to the game having this feature. It's not a deal-breaker but man am I pissed.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. It's not the same thing at all, and you're basically going to have to tab out of what is supposed to be an engaging and immersive experience to check things or words or people that you only just learned about in the game, or you're going to read it all outside of the game like some form of study material, inevitably spoiling you in terms of experiencing the setting and everything that's unique for the first time.

It's flabbergasting that something so basic, something that should've been relatively easy to implement compared to most everything else, had to be cut. It's things like this hints at, and that makes it seem to me, that the project was severely mismanaged on multiple levels. Where'd all that money go? Was it sunk into other projects?
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Woolfe » February 6th, 2017, 3:35 pm

Luckmann wrote:
MrBuzzKill wrote:The fact that it has been reduced to a mere "outside blah blah whatever" really SUCKS. I was looking forward to the game having this feature. It's not a deal-breaker but man am I pissed.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. It's not the same thing at all, and you're basically going to have to tab out of what is supposed to be an engaging and immersive experience to check things or words or people that you only just learned about in the game, or you're going to read it all outside of the game like some form of study material, inevitably spoiling you in terms of experiencing the setting and everything that's unique for the first time.

It's flabbergasting that something so basic, something that should've been relatively easy to implement compared to most everything else, had to be cut. It's things like this hints at, and that makes it seem to me, that the project was severely mismanaged on multiple levels. Where'd all that money go? Was it sunk into other projects?
Why do you think this was relatively easy to implement?
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Luckmann » February 6th, 2017, 3:53 pm

Woolfe wrote:
Luckmann wrote:
MrBuzzKill wrote:The fact that it has been reduced to a mere "outside blah blah whatever" really SUCKS. I was looking forward to the game having this feature. It's not a deal-breaker but man am I pissed.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. It's not the same thing at all, and you're basically going to have to tab out of what is supposed to be an engaging and immersive experience to check things or words or people that you only just learned about in the game, or you're going to read it all outside of the game like some form of study material, inevitably spoiling you in terms of experiencing the setting and everything that's unique for the first time.

It's flabbergasting that something so basic, something that should've been relatively easy to implement compared to most everything else, had to be cut. It's things like this hints at, and that makes it seem to me, that the project was severely mismanaged on multiple levels. Where'd all that money go? Was it sunk into other projects?
Why do you think this was relatively easy to implement?
Because it's primarily a UI/triggers element. Compared to pretty much anything else, that's incredibly minor.
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Woolfe » February 6th, 2017, 7:33 pm

"Voluminous Codex: We always intended for Torment to have a journal that would log your discoveries within the Ninth World. Not the kind of Journal that tells you exactly where you need to go next and what you need to do – you are an RPG connoisseur after all, and don’t need us to hold your hand. But what you might like is a journal to catalog your travels and discoveries, one to which you might refer when some past details elude you. One of your suggestions that we really liked was to take the journal quite a bit further. At this Stretch Goal, we are doing that – we’ll expand the journal, giving you more lore, more creature and character portraits, and more information on interesting/important events as you come across them. As with the rest of the game’s user interface, the journal will be highly customizable to suit your tastes."

That is not just a UI/Triggers element.
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Luckmann » February 7th, 2017, 12:08 am

Woolfe wrote:"Voluminous Codex: We always intended for Torment to have a journal that would log your discoveries within the Ninth World. Not the kind of Journal that tells you exactly where you need to go next and what you need to do – you are an RPG connoisseur after all, and don’t need us to hold your hand. But what you might like is a journal to catalog your travels and discoveries, one to which you might refer when some past details elude you. One of your suggestions that we really liked was to take the journal quite a bit further. At this Stretch Goal, we are doing that – we’ll expand the journal, giving you more lore, more creature and character portraits, and more information on interesting/important events as you come across them. As with the rest of the game’s user interface, the journal will be highly customizable to suit your tastes."

That is not just a UI/Triggers element.
Yes, that's exactly what it describes.
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Jernaugh » February 7th, 2017, 1:38 am

Gotta go with Luckmann here. It is a UI element. There's an issue of formatting (putting all the info in a journal-friendly format as well as creating a UI screen for the journal itself) and there might be a minor challenge of incorporating the journal into the game somehow, like by finding an Oddity that serves as the perfect journal for some reason, but none of this sounds major. I'm not looking forward to having the Codex open in the background and alt-tabbing out whenever I want to read something.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Woolfe » February 7th, 2017, 2:18 am

Except for you know, all that lore that needs to be written. Needs to be associated with the various elements you deal with, cross referenced to ensure info isn't there when it shouldn't be etc... Oh its just a UI/Triggers element... PFfff
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Althor » February 7th, 2017, 2:51 am

Woolfe wrote:Except for you know, all that lore that needs to be written. Needs to be associated with the various elements you deal with, cross referenced to ensure info isn't there when it shouldn't be etc... Oh its just a UI/Triggers element... PFfff
The lore is already written. It need to be in order to appear in the "external journal"
I can accept the association argument, but the part where the info appears where it shouldn't is even more the case with the external codex. All the info will be at hand and the players need to search it. It's seems that some form of spoiler will happen on a regular basis if you search it like that.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Infinitron » February 7th, 2017, 3:00 am

I'm thinking they were originally planning for this to be a fancy multimedia thing with lots of graphics, maybe sound or even animations.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Jernaugh » February 7th, 2017, 4:49 am

Yes indeed, the lore is already written or at least will yet be written for the codex to be released at all. Association is precisely what is meant by "Triggers element", or at least I thought that was what was meant.

I'm not saying it's no work, but I do tend to think it's less work than most other things that were cut. Unless they were planning a degree of reactivity in the journal that compares with, for example, a companion, in which case I can see the issue.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Lord of Riva » February 7th, 2017, 6:36 am

Woolfe wrote:Except for you know, all that lore that needs to be written. Needs to be associated with the various elements you deal with, cross referenced to ensure info isn't there when it shouldn't be etc... Oh its just a UI/Triggers element... PFfff
they are right, if the codex exists outside the only thing remaining is implementing it. It may even be "easy" compared to other things but the time/effort may still be an issue.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by zalak » February 7th, 2017, 3:30 pm

sear wrote:We're still going to release the Voluminous Codex, but we're now planning to offer it as a separate lore compendium outside of the game.
Could you elaborate? Do you mean a wiki, pdf, phone app? I personally understand cuts/changes to original plans but the communication on some of it is a bit blorg (tho the team is probably in crunch mode right now admittedly).

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Drool » February 7th, 2017, 9:02 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:they are right, if the codex exists outside the only thing remaining is implementing it. It may even be "easy" compared to other things but the time/effort may still be an issue.
That's not how programming ever works in practice. Things that should be easy, or should be quick almost never are.
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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by anonymous6059 » February 8th, 2017, 5:40 am

zalak wrote:
sear wrote:We're still going to release the Voluminous Codex, but we're now planning to offer it as a separate lore compendium outside of the game.
Could you elaborate? Do you mean a wiki, pdf, phone app? I personally understand cuts/changes to original plans but the communication on some of it is a bit blorg (tho the team is probably in crunch mode right now admittedly).
It will be a PDF. Do you think they could make a app, but not a simple in game codex?

I still think that this has everything to do with porting this game to console.
You can't easily type with a controller. So they just removed the entire codex and mainstreamed it for controllers.

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Re: Is the Voluminous Codex still in the game?

Post by Jernaugh » February 8th, 2017, 6:59 am

anonymous6059 wrote:
It will be a PDF. Do you think they could make a app, but not a simple in game codex?

I still think that this has everything to do with porting this game to console.
You can't easily type with a controller. So they just removed the entire codex and mainstreamed it for controllers.
Really? I would tend to think that being able to make your own notes is the smallest part of the issue. If it were me, I would just say "who cares" and implement a simple screen keyboard for the console users. They're losing out on a piece of very optional functionality that is likely to be less interesting to them anyway. People who really want to take voluminous notes will be doing so on the PC or old-school, i.e. by hand. This would just make it easier for the former crowd to integrate their notes with the game.

Maybe I'm being naive here, of course, but I really can't see the console's difficulty typing as a real impediment to the implementation of the Codex. I tend to assume it's more a reactivity thing. If your Codex updates often in different ways depending on your choices, that's a lot of flags you have to program. The more text, the more flags, presumably. So making the Codex truly voluminous may have ended up just too work-intensive in the time left. A shame, but in essence much the same thing as the cut companions - inXile likely believes that the enhancement to the game experience provided by the Codex simply didn't measure up to the enhancement other elements offered for the same amount of labour.

Just my guess, of course. I have no evidence for any of this.

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