UI discussion

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Sithwist
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UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 10th, 2016, 8:54 am

I really love the looks of the new UI, so great job there! I thought I'd start a thread about it though because I have a few suggestions...
  • I wish that the conversation options that we've already went through got grayed out on top of saying "again". It would avoid having to re-read the same lines several times.
  • I personally hate when the cursor changes to the red crossed-out sign when you can't walk there. Feels like it's screaming "NO HOW DARE YOU TRY AND DO THAT?!" at me all the time :/ Something a little less loud would be nicer.
  • The portraits during conversations should be bigger, especially that of the character you're speaking to, since that side of panel is otherwise empty.
  • I hope that being able to change the size of the font is going to be an option, it seems too big to me. Especially outside of conversations when you hover over the characters and their names pop up, same on the map.
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Re: UI discussion

Post by sear » June 10th, 2016, 10:23 am

Thanks! I did a lot of the design (along with Jeremy Kopman, especially for the Crisis stuff) so I think I can field these in detail.

1. Conversation options greying out could be a thing we add. It used to be in way way back, but I think it was removed for some reason - perhaps because we wanted players exploring the repeat options (which often have alternate dialog). But it's definitely something to consider.

2. For the "can't move here" cursor, do you feel the issue is the cursor art itself, or giving too much feedback?

3. We may be able to bump the portrait size up by a bit in future passes, yes.

4. We plan to have a font size option. Some font sizes right now are inconsistent and will continue to be tweaked. It is interesting how you feel that fonts are too big outside of conversations - conversations actually have one of the largest fonts in the game right now, other than headers, for example. The overhead tooltips for NPCs are super temp and will be replaced with new text size, new icons, new health bars and so on - they didn't make this build but the art is done.

And on that note, there is more to come. We have a lot of designs and iterations that were not quite ready for this build when we had to lock down.

Meanwhile, our artists (Alisha Klein and Charlie Bloomer) are continuing to work on polishing things up - if it looks or feels noticeably incomplete, then chances are it is on the menu for another pass. The Inventory and Conversation UI are the ones that are probably the most polished and closest to our vision right now.

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Sithwist
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 10th, 2016, 11:11 am

Yeah, I see how the graying out might discourage people from reiterating a question... Maybe having two different colors for the graying out, one to signal the topic is completely exhausted, and another to signal it's been asked but there might be more? That might be complicating things and giving too much feedback though.

For the "can't move here" cursor, for me it's not so much about the feedback as it is the cursor art. It just looks way too loud. Kind of like hearing a big "beep" every time I see it. I'd be satisfied if it was more subtle, and blended in more (like the other cursors) instead of sticking out like a sore thumb.

Great, happy to hear that about the font sizes. And yes, I meant too big in the conversations as well. Smaller fonts in conversations could probably also help solve the problem of having to scroll back up to see the beginning of the dialog bit.

The inventory screen looks awesome btw! - Oh I just noticed something - The blue lines that run in the seams of the inventory screen run over the "Character Sheet" button when they should be running under.
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Sithwist
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 10th, 2016, 11:14 am

Oh and last thing:
Shouldn't the currency counter be near the inventory items as opposed to the quest items?
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Re: UI discussion

Post by sear » June 10th, 2016, 11:16 am

Conversation scrolling is going to be changed - we have some new behavior planned which will stop things from getting cut off at the top edge, however it didn't get in for this build.

The VFX on the Inventory is a bit buggy right now, yeah, that's known. :)

The reasoning for the Shin counter being put near Quest Items to signify it's more of a "party thing" rather than tied to a specific character (which the inventory items are).

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 10th, 2016, 11:22 am

Ah, ok, I get it. Thanks!
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Havelok_ » June 10th, 2016, 1:09 pm

Absolutely love what they did with the effort menu! It's simple and quick to complete actions. The only thing I would suggest is to make the "roll" a little bit more dramatic. Like, a spinning ball the settles to show the result, or a wave of light converging on the checkmark/x before the reveal. It would add tension and excitement, just like rolling in a real tabletop game.

I believe the Conversation UI is a little small. I realize you guys had feedback about it being too large, and it must be difficult to strike a balance, but if it's not changed I can foresee one of the first mods out there being one which enlarges the text box, or makes it re-sizable.

The portraits are a bit too small. They would likely be perfect size if I were playing on my 40 inch tv or a 4k monitor, but on a 22" monitor you can barely make out the detail of the art.

I really like the look of the inventory/journal etc UI, especially what they did with the Cyphers. One issue I can think of though is that it makes Cyphers seem more impressive than artifacts. Any "Bonded item" or Artifact should have a super fancy icon to make sure people know it's an equippable super-item. I made the mistake of buying a cloak from a vendor because I thought it was an Artifact, not a Cypher. Not a complete waste of shins but an unpleasant moment nonetheless. If an item is an oddity, it should also be very obvious from the icon to the player that it is useable/interactable, rather than just a trinket to be sold at the nearest vendor.

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Aramintai » June 10th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Will the UI interface color be the same bland grey as it is now? It's clean but that's about it. Could use some more prettying up.

Also, will there be a window or some such where we can see our Tides inclination? Because all I'm seeing is popping messages about them changing without an option to actually see what changed.

And I wholeheartedly support op's suggestion to make portraits bigger, at least in the dialogue menu where there are clearly unused spaces near them. It's hard to make out the details on them.
Image

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Havelok_ » June 10th, 2016, 1:34 pm

Aramintai wrote: Also, will there be a window or some such where we can see our Tides inclination? Because all I'm seeing is popping messages about them changing without an option to actually see what changed.
.
Ah yes, this is something else I was puzzled about. The tides are such an important facet of the game, why are they not displayed in a grand piece of artwork in the character sheet? Seems temp to me.

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Re: UI discussion

Post by sear » June 10th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Aramintai wrote:Will the UI interface color be the same bland grey as it is now? It's clean but that's about it. Could use some more prettying up.
Possibly. We're playing with different VFX and shader/color ideas.
Aramintai wrote:Also, will there be a window or some such where we can see our Tides inclination? Because all I'm seeing is popping messages about them changing without an option to actually see what changed.
Yes. There is a "gem" on the top-left of the screen on the Common Panel, next to your character's name (Last Castoff only right now I believe). The color changes based on your Dominant Tide(s). Mouseover shows a tooltip with your current Tidal Affinity scores, but the final game will have a more detailed text tooltip.

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Havelok_ » June 10th, 2016, 2:35 pm

sear wrote: Yes. There is a "gem" on the top-left of the screen on the Common Panel, next to your character's name (Last Castoff only right now I believe). The color changes based on your Dominant Tide(s). Mouseover shows a tooltip with your current Tidal Affinity scores, but the final game will have a more detailed text tooltip.

I was thinking something more like this: Image .

But way nicer looking, obviously. That's just a 5 minute photoshop mockup.[/quote]

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Flower of Pock-Lips » June 11th, 2016, 4:54 am

I'm really digging the aesthetic of the new UI, but I think there's still some work to be done in communicating how some of the less traditional game mechanics work to new players.

The one thing that I think is missing, is the integration of some of the amazing concept art we've seen into the game. The 3D renders are nice, but "Sagus Cliffs at Dawn", for example, would make for an amazing loading screen for the Sagus Cliffs areas. I'd also love to see full-body concept art for the PC and companions on the character sheet, as well. Those tiny portraits aren't quite enough to get a sense for who those characters are.

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Firkraag » June 11th, 2016, 5:12 am

sear wrote: Yes. There is a "gem" on the top-left of the screen on the Common Panel, next to your character's name (Last Castoff only right now I believe). The color changes based on your Dominant Tide(s). Mouseover shows a tooltip with your current Tidal Affinity scores, but the final game will have a more detailed text tooltip.
And now I must figure out, how did I get Silver 4... I was trying to be as curious, as I could.

Also, does that mean, that Castoff also knows/feels her current affinities and their relative strength? Or only the player?
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Re: UI discussion

Post by sear » June 11th, 2016, 8:37 am

Firkraag wrote:Also, does that mean, that Castoff also knows/feels her current affinities and their relative strength? Or only the player?
Whether the characters in-game know is up to the writers, but from a gameplay perspective the thinking is we need some feedback for the player so they feel like their choices are recognized. Mystery is cool but if people feel like what they're doing isn't changing anything then they'll assume there is no change (even if there is).

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Re: UI discussion

Post by Rink » June 13th, 2016, 9:55 pm

I really love the game and I think you guys have done a terrific job! Thank you!

I think there isn't much that can be improved on. One of the few things that I would like to be tweaked:

- "again"-conversation-options: I am not sure if I am the only one that thinks this has been done too extensivly.
I can understand that in some cases it may be interesting to ask a person about something two times, but that may be for every fifth to tenth line or so. When it is for every line, then I feel like I am not making a visual progress in my dialogue and oftentimes the again-answers gives no new information/humor etc. I can live with the greyed out version, but if all the "again"-lines make it to the final game, then I would like it, if the the again-lines disappeared completely before the answers repeat themselves at least. What do you guys think?

- conversation-scrolling. It is good, that this will be tweaked a bit. It is ok atm., but it would be even better, if after I have chosen a conversation option if the conversation box would start with the first line of dialogue the npc answers. Atm. the box goes to your next options so you have to scroll up everytime and then down again to pick your answer.
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Rink » June 13th, 2016, 10:01 pm

oh and it is a really small detail, but atm when deleting savegames in the overview it reloads the whole list and puts you on top of the list instead of where you deleted the savegame. It would be nice if the list would "remember" the savegame list and where you were to make managing savegames in game faster and easier.
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 14th, 2016, 7:34 am

Rink wrote:I really love the game and I think you guys have done a terrific job! Thank you!

I think there isn't much that can be improved on. One of the few things that I would like to be tweaked:

- "again"-conversation-options: I am not sure if I am the only one that thinks this has been done too extensivly.
I can understand that in some cases it may be interesting to ask a person about something two times, but that may be for every fifth to tenth line or so. When it is for every line, then I feel like I am not making a visual progress in my dialogue and oftentimes the again-answers gives no new information/humor etc. I can live with the greyed out version, but if all the "again"-lines make it to the final game, then I would like it, if the the again-lines disappeared completely before the answers repeat themselves at least. What do you guys think?

- conversation-scrolling. It is good, that this will be tweaked a bit. It is ok atm., but it would be even better, if after I have chosen a conversation option if the conversation box would start with the first line of dialogue the npc answers. Atm. the box goes to your next options so you have to scroll up everytime and then down again to pick your answer.
I would like to see the again lines grayed out as well, but I would hate to actually see those options disappear when they're exhausted. I like having the option to go back and ask an NPC what they were talking about in case I forget after a period away from the game. (But who am I kidding, I'll be playing the game straight for days when it comes out...)

They have stated earlier in this thread that they are working on the scrolling issue. For now you can expand the top of the conversation box if you want to.
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Rink » June 15th, 2016, 1:49 pm

that's true, but can easily be solved the same way most other games are solving it:
if the line has already been seen in the same conversation, then it will be gone. If you start a new conversation with the same person, then the "again"-option will reappear in grey. Having less options would help with scrolling as well.. :D
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Sithwist » June 15th, 2016, 2:24 pm

Rink wrote:that's true, but can easily be solved the same way most other games are solving it:
if the line has already been seen in the same conversation, then it will be gone. If you start a new conversation with the same person, then the "again"-option will reappear in grey. Having less options would help with scrolling as well.. :D
Oh, right. Didn't think about that. That would work fine.
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Re: UI discussion

Post by Cadius » July 4th, 2016, 9:58 am

When exploring, it would be helpful if the "exit" points had a mouse-over text with the destination name. At present, I see a door symbol, then have to pop over to the map view to see where the "door" leads.

Also, are there plans to make the map navigable? In Wasteland 2, I could click a location in the map and the party would go there. That doesn't seem to happen here.


Other than that, I'm really loving this system.

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