A call for more Numenera from Inxile! :)

[troybpierce]

The last sale has given Torment a burst of new user reviews, and they're 65% positive.

I bought the game way back at release, but didn't start playing until last month. I have only positive things to say about Torment: Tides of Numenera. It has exceeded my expectations in every way, and I have no doubt that at some point in the future it will be considered a cult classic. I only wish InXile had made more money on this endeavour, as the game is truly amazing and InXile deserves a significant financial reward for making such a unique game.

My biggest fear about this game (and the reason I waited for months after its release before I finally started playing it) was that because it only received 3 post-release patches, the game would be plagued with bugs. But rest assured that Version 1.10 is indeed in great shape! I've read online that some people are still experiencing bugs, but in my 40-hour playthrough as a Nano I didn't notice a single bug.

I'm an OCD completionist who attempts to do all quests in a single playthrough, so games usually take me FOREVER to complete (it took me over 190 hours to complete a single playthrough of both The Witcher 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition, for example). I'm usually so exhausted by the time I complete an RPG that I usually never touch the game ever again after I finally finish it, haha.

In the case of T:ToN, it's actually a really short game (I completed it in 40 hours, and that's super short for me). The length of the game could be significantly shorter or longer depending on how fast/slow you read the text (you could make the game really short by just clicking buttons to skip all the text, or make the game really long if you have the patience to pore over every detail).

The good thing about this game being short is that I wasn't completely exhausted when I finished it, and I've actually decided to do a second playthrough as a Jack. I'm having just as much fun on my second playthrough as the first, though I'm guilty of just hitting buttons to skip much of the text this time around. I'm guessing that I might be able to finish the game in only 20-something hours this time around by skipping most of the text. There are multiple ways to resolve each quest, and it's been fun to experience the different quest resolutions on my second playthrough.

[sear]

Thanks for the feedback, troybpierce! Glad you are enjoying it. The game was built to be replayed with different characters so you should have plenty more to see this time around... and the next, and the next.

[troybpierce]

I have finished my second playthrough as a jack. I did not experience any bugs on my second playthrough either, and I feel that Version 1.1 is in great shape!

The game does seem to be a bit underappreciated by the rpg gaming community at the moment (just like its predecessor Planescape: Torment was back when it was released). But I do think T:ToN will attain cult classic status at some point in the future (just like Planescape: Torment did).

Great game is all I have to say!!!

[unguided]

Get Beamdog to do an enhanced edition right now! I meant that as a joke, but actually... If they could work closely with the Torment team it might not turn out to be a bad idea.

But I assume now the focus is (correctly) on the next two InXile games. And at some point in the coming year they will probably be on Fig again with a new pitch. To be honest I never saw Wasteland 3 coming... So why not a Torment sequel?

All depends on the pitch... If it can take the 'series' forward in some way (like mutliplayer, wouldn't it be great to having deep philosophical discussions with other players in an in game-bar... Tied to a sort of endless battles where you have to convince other players to join one faction over another? No? Just me

In any case, if there is a new idea to keep things fresh, I think it could be successful (on Fig at least). It's still my gut feeling that the Torment brand is too valuable to not be revisited some time.

I mean... Just look at how many times they tried to bring Jagged Alliance back! Wait, that might not be a great example actually

[Gizmo]

...If it can take the 'series' forward in some way (like mutliplayer...

, wouldn't it be great to having deep philosophical discussions with other players in an in game-bar...

No

One goes in to those bars to find strange denizens with philosophically alien appearance and perspectives, not cos-players; nor patrons who pause for SMS & Facebook notifications.

[TheSeaker]

Hi everyone...again.

Well, you might be wondering where I’ve been and why I’ve not posted final survey results. Well, two things: I’ve been busy (wife, 3 kids, FT job, etc), but probably more importantly is that I’m disappointed with how Inxile has been managing this game. I LOVE the writers and content creators so let there be no confusion: this is purely business related. After seeing Brian’s responses from one of his latest interviews on an rpg site saying crap like (paraphrasing) “Guess games need more combat” and some other stuff, I paused on this endeavor thinking “are you kidding me?” “Did this guy learn NOTHING from making this game?”. I believe there is an audience for this game and that it will take time to reach fruition (In the same way as PST) and will probably need some adjustments to the marketing strategy. But apparently the management at Inxile have lost (or never had) the patience and fortitude to continue support for this wonderful game and its niche. People continue to ask about it, and Inxile continues to not respond. So I’m not going to show my support for Inxile when I know it will go ignored. Some of you have mentioned this before, but I started this survey anyway and held out hope that Inxile’s support would continue along the “Servant of the Tides” path. Perhaps not as extension and spread out, but some support and pride from Inxile for their great product. But despite the initial backlash from betrayed backers dying down and a more positive/accurate note from people about the game recently, Inxile continues its abandonment. Yes, “sales have been disappointing”, I get it. But that’s right now. If Inxile changed marketing strategies a bit and supported this game more, I believe that would turn a bit. And guess what, sales are not the end all/be all. Pride in making a great product that people love counts too. But hey, if Inxile wants to assume an EA-like attitude of “sales are everything” then whatever. Hell, at least EA and developers support their game past the first couple months usually. But whatever, they’re going to do what they’re going to do (Brian’s fighting hard for that retirement egg). They’ve shown that, despite backlash from poor communication in the kickstarter, they’ve learned NOTHING except “games need more combat to sell” as they continue NOT to communicate. I have given Inxile the benefit of the doubt until now, when it seems clear they intend to abandon this wonderful game.

Inxile, if there something in the works, I HIGHLY suggest you communicate this to the fans. I even suggest you acknowledge if it isn’t. And again, I understand business and the need for profit, but that’s not ALL there is. When that happens, you’re nothing but a publisher with only dollar signs in your eyes. Which is a shame because the writers and artists were wonderful in this game. I can’t say it enough. I will always love T:ToN. I just wish Inxile mangement would as well.

Later everyone. And thank you for voting!!!!! Sorry for not obtaining final survey results for you guys, but at this point, it’s not worth the money when the game is seemingly abandoned.

[jsaving]

From their point of view, I think inXile would say they've tried many of the strategies recommended in these forums to salvage/rescue TToN. In response to people saying the game needed to focus on its literary content, the devs worked on fleshing out the in-game encyclopedia. In response to people saying too many promises were made but not kept, the devs worked on Oom. And in response to people saying the game's price point was too high to attract new fans, the devs heavily discounted the game for a period of time. None of these strategies worked, but one has to at least acknowledge that the devs listened to what (some) fans were saying and tried to address their concerns.

[TheSeaker]

What about the bugs that still persist? Nothing game breaking for me yet, but the game needs a bit more attention. That's what i mostly meant by support. But my decision was determined based on the interview with Brian. That's when i knew they were abandoning this game. And as far as I've heard, they haven't tried some of the marketing suggestions from forum members which had something to do with marketing this game for book reading markets as well. Or something similar. And I've heard people commented on steam that they were waiting for more polish before buying the game on sale. I acknowledge that inxile started off well with their support despite the backlash, but it ended so quickly with bugs still left unfixed. And they won't reply on the forums when people ask about simple bug fixing patches. Sorry, but that's bs. They need to polish this game up some more if they want to help gain it's audience over time. Let fans know that they still support this game. This is bad business. Don't screw your fans just because you're disappointed it wasn't a blockbuster right out of the gate.

[Serjo]

I think the biggest fixable impediment to Torment's long term sales is the "Mixed" rating on Steam, and inXile could probably have addressed that by pushing out one or two more patches after their May update. I can't think of any big Kickstarter RPG that had its support dropped so quickly and unceremoniously. Now the reviewers are shouting "Warning: this game is abandoned, avoid the Lazaret and the PS4 version".

My question is whether inXile is doing this because:

a) they are still interested in supporting and developing Torment, but can't do it because they've run out of money (maybe there'll be another patch after BT4 breaks the charts?), or
b) they have put the Torment franchise into deep freeze and are cutting their losses because they don't believe they can make a profitable game with it.

inXile have been sending mixed signals about this issue, with the writers saying that they still have lots of ideas for new characters and new dialogues and urging their fans to nominate them for GOTY and "best writing" awards (without success, of course), while Fargo does interviews saying that the game needed to have more combat and a lot less unvoiced text to be more Twitch-friendly. Since PST was pretty much the antithesis of a "Twitch-friendly" game, it sounds like he doesn't believe that the classic formula is viable anymore.

Then there are the still-outstanding novel and digital comic books from the Kickstarter, which would theoretically be the foundation for carrying the Torment franchise into the future. Instead, the developers have been "figuring out the distribution" of the finished books for over a year now. Can it really be that hard to distribute a digital text to backers? Are they still considering a print run? Or is this stuff simply so low-priority that they can't allocate the work hours to distribute it? inXile are proud to say that they have some of the best writing in the industry, but they show no interest in releasing these writers' finished novels and comic books. Can anybody understand that?

[Eelectrica]

It's a shame this whole thing seem to have ended with a wimper, not a roar.
Not fixing the Lazaret bug in particular has just compounded any previous mistakes they made with the game.

I'd love another game set in the Numenera universe, doesn't have to be a torment game, just an adventure in that universe. Have a good mix of combat and Story, the success of Divinity Original Sin 2 shows the market is there if they get the execution right.

[Jozape]

It's a shame this whole thing seem to have ended with a wimper, not a roar.
Not fixing the Lazaret bug in particular has just compounded any previous mistakes they made with the game.

I'd love another game set in the Numenera universe, doesn't have to be a torment game, just an adventure in that universe. Have a good mix of combat and Story, the success of Divinity Original Sin 2 shows the market is there if they get the execution right.

I don't know. Divinity's setting is very safe compared to Numenera's. But I agree that more combat would seem to be a better bet for a CRPG at this time, Numenera or not. I played through Shadowrun: Dragonfall recently and that was about 50/50 combat and dialog, with the game alternating between the two regularly. The combat wasn't really "tactical" but it wasn't bad either. Actually it is a good chance to let the brain reset between bouts of writing that may or may not be taxing on the player's brain or emotions. That's the main difference that I see between it and Tides of Numenera, besides the unusual nature of Numenera. It just seems to be better paced for player's expectations, I think.

[Eelectrica]

It's a shame this whole thing seem to have ended with a wimper, not a roar.
Not fixing the Lazaret bug in particular has just compounded any previous mistakes they made with the game.

I'd love another game set in the Numenera universe, doesn't have to be a torment game, just an adventure in that universe. Have a good mix of combat and Story, the success of Divinity Original Sin 2 shows the market is there if they get the execution right.

I don't know. Divinity's setting is very safe compared to Numenera's. But I agree that more combat would seem to be a better bet for a CRPG at this time, Numenera or not. I played through Shadowrun: Dragonfall recently and that was about 50/50 combat and dialog, with the game alternating between the two regularly. The combat wasn't really "tactical" but it wasn't bad either. Actually it is a good chance to let the brain reset between bouts of writing that may or may not be taxing on the player's brain or emotions. That's the main difference that I see between it and Tides of Numenera, besides the unusual nature of Numenera. It just seems to be better paced for player's expectations, I think.

Yeah, I loved Dragonfall. Really need to play that again at some point with different decisions.
I get what you're saying with Divinity. The Numenera universe is certainly a lot more weird than Divinity. To me, that makes it all the more interesting, but it seems people aren't ready for that. Which is a shame. What I feel it does have is a great mix of story telling and combat, as did Dragonfall.

All in all I actually enjoyed T:ToN in the end and have started my second run through. Sadly this time around I hit the Lazaret bug which I somehow avoided the first time. It's a mood killing bug.

[TheSeaker]

Nice to see thoughtful conversation still persisting. Personally, i think the ToN formula works just fine if handled properly. The biggest hit for this game is the behavior of Inxile. Marketing-wise, quite frankly, they stink. I think Brian Fargo has a terrible attitude and little patience in handling this situation which i think is the catalyst for all the issues they are having. One late apology and then abandonment/no communication doesn't do anything but hurt them. It truly is a shame. Such a great game mishandled.

[BurningBright]

I would love it if Inxhile put some more focus in TToN. Either expanding the current game and adding back some of the cut content like the playable companions. I am assuming they were cut for logistical reasons but they may have been cut for reasons simply design based.....or working on a new game in the Torment or Numenera line and addressing some of the criticisms put forward by others. Or doing both

I have not completed the game yet so cannot formulate a good informed opinion of the game yet. But so far I like what I see.

[kaiman]

I can't think of any big Kickstarter RPG that had its support dropped so quickly and unceremoniously.

But surely they're secretly working on the Extended Cut Director's Edition already?

Then there are the still-outstanding novel and digital comic books from the Kickstarter, which would theoretically be the foundation for carrying the Torment franchise into the future. Instead, the developers have been "figuring out the distribution" of the finished books for over a year now. [...] Can anybody understand that?

Frankly, no. I understood that the stuff took time to get finished, and wasn't available by the time the game released. But if it's done, how hard could it be to distribute the digital versions in this day and age? By now, I no longer expect a physical copy of Colin's novel, but I would be quite disappointed if it didn't manifest at all.

[phimseto]

FYI, re: Colin's novel, we have it and are looking into the best ways to get it out to backers.

[Drool]

FYI, re: Colin's novel, we have it and are looking into the best ways to get it out to backers.

Did Chris ever finish his WL2 novel?