Why so few updates?

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Nyxalinth
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Why so few updates?

Post by Nyxalinth » December 20th, 2012, 12:04 pm

Unless I'm blind (not impossible, my eyesight is terrible!) I haven't seen very many updates. To clarify, I mean stuff like more art, or "we're working on Region X right now" or "this is where we are in the overall scheme of the game's completion". I'm guessing you don't have enough to share that would'nt be huge spoilers or the like, or are too busy working to post more (which is always good!) or am I just being more impatient than a kid on Christmas Eve?

PS: I do appreciate what we've seen so far, don't get me wrong!

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Brother None » January 6th, 2013, 5:24 am

I was merging unanswered questions (and I also bumped down this forum) to make things more manageable when I noticed this one, one I'd like to answer. Now I don't work for inXile so this isn't any kind of official answer, but I'm very involved in this side of things, giving feedback on updates and providing ideas, and often encouraging them to do more updates.

One reality I feel should be understood is that there's a big difference between how big companies manage this stuff and how inXile does it. inXile is small compared even to the likes of DoubleFine or Obsidian. They don't have any one who specifically focuses on community interaction and updates. Instead, several people spend time on it on a fairly ad hoc basis. CEO Brian Fargo, president Matthew Findley, design director Chris Keenan and lead scripter Joby Bednar do a lot of work to provide facebook, blog, kickstarter and forum updates. Volunteers like me help out. But this is all ad hoc, often outside of office hours, extra work, for guys who already have a pretty significant, important workload for the game.

It's a matter of budgeting, in the end, and for Wasteland 2 every cent went to making the game. That's fine but it's led to too few updates and interaction. inXile is aware of that, and come more freedom with the next game's budgeting or after Wasteland 2's release they should be able to do more about that. Already the awareness has led to some improvement in my opinion, some more tweets/facebook updates, screenshot, big update coming. Brian does prefer to use Kickstarter updates only for meaty, heftier updates, no filler, so I don't think they'll ever have as many of those as other companies (who do use fillerish updates, and that's fine, it's a question of approach and preference, there's no absolute right or wrong), but update wise I personally feel things are improving and will continue to improve especially when they return to Kickstarter (as both Brian Fargo and Kevin Saunders have confirmed, the next project will again use Kickstarter, and Brian likes to process and would like to keep it integrated indefinitely).

But keep suggestions coming. This forum after all was an idea from Cpt Patch, and I keep a very open ear to ideas which I then bring to Chris and Brian. Shorter remarks like Nyxalinth seems to be looking for are not a bad idea, especially to do on twitter or facebook, so it'll be something to consider. Just keep in mind inXile a) has a very show don't tell attitude, and prefers to show progress rather than talk about it b) is pretty careful about what they show because this is a very critical community (which is fine! RPG hardcore community should be critical-minded, I love it, but it does mean more care needs to be taken with when and how you show things) and c) doesn't like inundating the crowd with empty updates. I'm curious to hear if you guys feel any of that is "wrong" and absolutely needs to be changed, or if it's more a matter of tweaking approach and intensity.

Oh, one thing: spoilers are right out. Fargo and inXile hate story spoilers so never expect to hear much of that.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by under_dog » January 6th, 2013, 5:48 am

I'm fine with the amount of updates, considering the game is still in alpha stage, there's not much things they can talk about that is not likely to be tweaked in the next iterations.

Even in the biggest companies with dedicated PRs, like If you take a huge game like GTA5, there can be as few as only a handful screenshots, 2 trailers and maybe 3 or 4 interviews out. And GTA5 is set to release this spring.

Sure a lot of questions are unanswerd, mainly game mechanics, then again, most things are susceptible to be tweaked/improved upon/cut out even after the beta test phase is done.
I'd rather see things for myself during beta, then voiving my feedbacks, and finally get the release, than build hype upon early announced features that are most likely to change till the game is released.

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Tets » January 6th, 2013, 7:51 am

i think news announcments in the forum (Latest Screenshot...Thoughts? ; Bringing back robots from the original ; Attribute Acronym From Update, ...) should also be posted in the blog. This doesnt cost much time or work and keeps people updated who dont want to search/use the forum regulary. Its also chronological and you dont miss things so easy.

Now the blog seems pretty deserted, like nothing is happening and there are no updates. At the moment the blog is imo of little use. For example, theres no information about the new alpha-screenshot.

One thing would i wolud really like to know. The preproduction and production plan was divided in three 6 month periods. Is preproduction finished (it should be finished in october according to the plan)?
Last edited by Tets on January 6th, 2013, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Brother None » January 6th, 2013, 8:01 am

Tets wrote:Now the blog seems pretty deserted, like nothing is happening and there are no updates. At the moment the blog is imo of little use.
Yip. Like I said it's a bit spread ad hoc over different people which explains the lack of coordination, but it does look bad. This is definitely something that should change for the better once they budget/schedule this stuff more exactly.
Tets wrote:One thing would i wolud really like to know. The preproduction and production plan was divided in three 6 month periods. Is preproduction finished (it should be finished in october according to the plan)?
It is, yeah. It was wrapped up a week or two after scheduled I think. They're more or less on schedule as planned, right now.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Wile » January 6th, 2013, 10:51 am

I wonder how are those development diaries coming along? Or do we get those after the release?

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Drool » January 6th, 2013, 10:07 pm

Brother None wrote:They're more or less on schedule as planned, right now.
What is the current schedule? Just the boring nuts and bolts of actually building the game? If this was a movie they'd be filming now?
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Tets » January 7th, 2013, 2:29 am

A second thought about the blog. So, how to fill the blog with updates without much additional work? Like i said, use the news youve already do, copy the news announcements from the formus or the kickstarterpage in the blog. Second, use news other people made. Posting links to some interessting interviews and articels about Wasteland 2.

@ Drool) „The best production process is pretty fluid ... so I hate to commit to exactly how things roll out but I can tell you that 90% of the writing/design will happen by October [Anm. 2012]. Scripting will start in about a month from now [Anm. Ende August 2012] on the levels that are done. I plan to have all levels in and scripted by April [Anm. 2013] thus leaving another 6 months for iteration and play test.“ Writing by October, Scripting by April: Brian Fargo Comments on Deadlines
, rpgcodex.net, 25. Juli 2012. http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... nes.74523/

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Brother None » January 7th, 2013, 3:58 am

Wile wrote:I wonder how are those development diaries coming along? Or do we get those after the release?
The video diaries? They've been working on em, yeah. Don't know when they're scheduled, but I think pre-release.
Drool wrote:
Brother None wrote:They're more or less on schedule as planned, right now.
What is the current schedule? Just the boring nuts and bolts of actually building the game? If this was a movie they'd be filming now?
Lot of iteration and nuts and bolts stuff, implementing level design, getting the UI to work as they want it to, etc. etc. I don't know the details either, but it's implementation and iteration at this point. We'll all see it in action soon, anyway, and we'll get a better idea of where they're at.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Nyxalinth » February 7th, 2013, 2:34 pm

Thanks for getting back to me on this :) I didn't even notice until today :oops:

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Bossett » May 27th, 2013, 4:12 am

I've been checking the blog fairly regularly - hoping for updates, and only now do I notice that the forum is actually home to a tonne of dev updates, etc.

Would be awesome just to cross-post stuff from Latest News up on the blog for those of us (like me) who see 'Forum' and think 'likely deserted waste of time'.

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by under_dog » May 27th, 2013, 5:05 am

On topic, it's been a whole month without any update. You'd think 4 M$ on torment's KS might have done some good on this side of things...

Now there's no need for full fledge update, but you know, just lil bit of things, like WIP screen shots ?
I'm not even talking about the 4 episodes Dev Blog, that i'm now confident will be release AFTER the games release, but oh, maybe the gameplay vid is considered episode 1 ...

Yeah i'm bitter, but the recent (in)activity of the users on the board really sums it all up..

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Crosmando » May 27th, 2013, 5:48 am

Yeah but at the end of the day, how much of an RPG can you show in a video without spoiling content. Wasteland was interesting in that a lot of the interactive skill use in the game played like an adventure game. You would use "skill" on "object" like "lockpick" on "door" like a puzzle. If WL2 is going to continue this tradition of gameplay (And I hope it will) then there's only so much they can show. It's the dilemma developers of adventure games face when making trailers too.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Brother None » May 27th, 2013, 6:48 am

under_dog wrote:On topic, it's been a whole month without any update. You'd think 4 M$ on torment's KS might have done some good on this side of things...
Yip, it's not good, sorry. We're aiming for a higher update rate but it's not that easy. We're still a small company. Wanted to get an update out before this past weekend but it'll likely come some time this week instead.

Torment's KS budget isn't being spent towards Wasteland 2.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by under_dog » May 27th, 2013, 12:25 pm

Well i certainly know you're not a big company, but between this and the overkill rate of update done by your mates at Obsidian, there must be some kind of middle ground.
Hence why i was talking more little snip updates, like having a few pics or maybe some pre production sketch. I mean, there must be way more than the very few we've seen, there really is no need to have them rendered like the previous ones, simple scans would already drive the hype among us like crazy. But i'm having a bad day and i start bitching like my old lady :lol:

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by sales101 » May 29th, 2013, 3:30 pm

When can we expect an update. It would be nice to hear when we get the original wasteland. A lot more screen shots. Where the alpha stands so we can have an idea on the beta release. Have a better understanding on the story. So many questions.

We understand you guys aren't huge and we know its hard. Brian said he was going to do it better and this isn't better. Most of us backers want more and want to feel more involved. I could keep going but it's just frustration so I will stop and contain myself.

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Drool » May 29th, 2013, 9:20 pm

sales101 wrote:When can we expect an update.
Probably within the week.
It would be nice to hear when we get the original wasteland.
It'll be bundled with WL2. Most like in the exact same manner Bard's Tale 1-3 was.
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by sales101 » May 30th, 2013, 9:10 am

It would be nice to hear when we get the original wasteland.
It'll be bundled with WL2. Most like in the exact same manner Bard's Tale 1-3 was.[/quote]


How do you know this? Can you link me the source? Thanks

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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Crosmando » May 30th, 2013, 9:36 am

Drool wrote:
sales101 wrote:When can we expect an update.
Probably within the week.
It would be nice to hear when we get the original wasteland.
It'll be bundled with WL2. Most like in the exact same manner Bard's Tale 1-3 was.
FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU

I'll just stick to my abandonware version then, God I hated having the emulation of BT1-3 within the Bard's Tale main game, forced full-screen, glitchy and bloated.

Yo, so I heard you like playing Wasteland, so we put a Wasteland inside Wasteland 2 so you can play Wasteland while you play Wasteland 2 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Why so few updates?

Post by Brother None » May 30th, 2013, 10:15 am

sales101 wrote:How do you know this? Can you link me the source? Thanks
I dunno where Brian talked about it but yip, we don't have the license to release it separately, only as a part of WL2.
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