Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

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Gabriel77Dan
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Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Gabriel77Dan » December 15th, 2012, 8:01 am

I looked over the skill list in the stickied thread and I didn't see any skill for stealing things, yet I remember how InXile has said that certain companions might steal things from you from time to time.

So, is stealing in the game and how is it covered skill-wise?

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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by RangerKeenan » December 19th, 2012, 11:29 am

Hi Gabriel77Dan,

The player characters won't have a steal skill that they can use, but occasionally an CNPC that the players come across might have the ability to do this. It came down to a question of time and resources. Stealing is a cool skill in games, but any skills we added we want to have a good amount of reactivity. When we starting discussing a design for stealing, it turned into a major task. Ability to steal items, what kind of items can be stolen, what if you get caught, how does the NPC react in the future if you're caught. It turned out to be something we didn't think was core to the experience for the amount of time needed to add it correctly.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by McDougle » December 19th, 2012, 12:47 pm

In respect to development that sounds fair... in respect to NPC & PC balancing that sounds quite unfair. :lol:

I´ll personally shoot all adults, animals, droids and mutants that try to steal from my crew! :twisted:
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 19th, 2012, 12:59 pm

McDougle wrote:I´ll personally shoot all adults, animals, droids and mutants that try to steal from my crew! :twisted:
And what will you do with a NPC _in_ your party that steals from other party members? (Which is apparently a situation that WILL come up.)
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Gabriel77Dan » December 19th, 2012, 1:26 pm

DarkTwinkie wrote:Hi Gabriel77Dan,

The player characters won't have a steal skill that they can use, but occasionally an CNPC that the players come across might have the ability to do this. It came down to a question of time and resources. Stealing is a cool skill in games, but any skills we added we want to have a good amount of reactivity. When we starting discussing a design for stealing, it turned into a major task. Ability to steal items, what kind of items can be stolen, what if you get caught, how does the NPC react in the future if you're caught. It turned out to be something we didn't think was core to the experience for the amount of time needed to add it correctly.
Shouldn't be too hard, quest items can be stolen, keys, pass cards, documents, discs et cetera.

If a mild mannered NPC finds out you stole from him he might just take it back and refuse to speak to you again until you've apologized properly (Charisma determines this).

If a person with guts finds out you've stolen from him he might take a swing at you. If you knock him out and return later he will refuse to speak with you.

If a person who's part of law enforcement finds out about this he might force you out of town. If you return and his "Policemen" finds you out then you will either be shot or forced to leave. Apologizing and slipping him some money can make him forget about it, but he cannot be pick pocketed again as he will keep a watchful eye over your party.

If a gang member or mobster finds out about you stealing then you're likely going to end up in a combat situation without chance of settling it peacefully.

Seems simple enough to me. :/
Then again, I'm not the one working on the game so I have no idea how hard it is to script/code all of this in and handle reactivity and dialogue variations.

I'll just get a mod for it after the game is released.

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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Woolfe » December 19th, 2012, 2:12 pm

CaptainPatch wrote:
McDougle wrote:I´ll personally shoot all adults, animals, droids and mutants that try to steal from my crew! :twisted:
And what will you do with a NPC _in_ your party that steals from other party members? (Which is apparently a situation that WILL come up.)
I beleive he just said he will shoot them :D A different comment mentioned something about killing an NPC in your party to get your gear back.

What I would like to see is the ability to take back my items by force if necessary, but not kill them. So maybe beat them to a pulp, take the gear back, and leave them, giving a kick on the way. (I'm not saying I would do that, just that it should be an option)
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 19th, 2012, 4:16 pm

Woolfe wrote:What I would like to see is the ability to take back my items by force if necessary, but not kill them. So maybe beat them to a pulp, take the gear back, and leave them, giving a kick on the way. (I'm not saying I would do that, just that it should be an option)
I have the suspicion that the ONLY two options will be let him remain, but keep a close eye on him, or to kick him out of the party. Otherwise you would have to make allowances for intra-party civil wars.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Arcanix » December 19th, 2012, 8:42 pm

What Patch said. Beating people up in order for them to give the toy back to you is a 2 year old mind talking. You do not have to keep that character in the party, you know.
March 24th, 2014, 4:13 am
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 19th, 2012, 11:13 pm

Meh. If it's absolutely proven that the man is a thief, what's wrong with lopping off his dominant hand? Or at least brand a "T" onto his forehead or cheek? Do _something_ so people know they have a thief in their midst that they should keep one eye on while the other is on their valuables.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Woolfe » December 20th, 2012, 12:59 am

CaptainPatch wrote:
Woolfe wrote:What I would like to see is the ability to take back my items by force if necessary, but not kill them. So maybe beat them to a pulp, take the gear back, and leave them, giving a kick on the way. (I'm not saying I would do that, just that it should be an option)
I have the suspicion that the ONLY two options will be let him remain, but keep a close eye on him, or to kick him out of the party. Otherwise you would have to make allowances for intra-party civil wars.
Um, what? Why would I have a known thief, that I have beaten to get the gear back in my party?

What I was getting at was why am I just kicking him out or killing him. I might not think he is that bad except for the whole thievery thing. Give him a lesson, get the item back, then leave him. As in drop him from the party. Sorry I thought that was obvious. Pretty standard fare actually, if the guy is silly enough not to give it back when he is outnumbered, he should either leg it, or take a beating. Shouldn't he?

You could also have the thief give it back sheepishly. Do you then kick them out or kill or not?
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 20th, 2012, 1:57 am

Eh? It's the _Wasteland_, where Life is harsh and hard, and generally unforgiving. How would you feel if at some point, your most prized possession was stolen by some clown that someone else had caught in the act and then just let go with a thrashing? Sort of, "We hang horse thieves in these here parts!" kind of thing.

I would make a point that I would want to be _absolutely_ certain that he was indeed THE thief, and not just someone that was being framed by someone else in the party.

[Off topic joke about tolerance: A newlywed couple are on their honeymoon at a dude ranch. One morning they go out horseback riding. The riding is nice until they come to a low fence. When the husband goes to jump the horse over that low obstacle, it balks and the man goes flying head over heels and lands on the other side. "Oh, dear" thinks the wife, "now I get to see what his temper is like". Surprisingly, the man seems unruffled. He stands up, dusts himself off, steps across the low fence, grabs the horse by the bridle, points his finger at the horse's face and calmly says, "That's One." Then he jumps back into the saddle and they resume their ride, all the while the wife is thinking, "Wow! Did I get a gem? The horse dumps him, and _that_ is the extent of his anger?"

So they ride on until they come to a really low hedgerow. Once again the man spurs the horse on to jump the low obstacle, but once again, the horse balks and the husband goes flying head over heels, landing on the other side. Again, the man calmly gets up, dusts himself off, steps across the hedge and grabs the horse's bridle. But this time as he is pointing his finger at the horse's face, he calmly says, "That's Two." Thereafter, he swings back up into the saddle, they resume their ride, and the wife is thinking, "He is simply amazing! No flare of anger; business as usual; calm as a cucumber! Am I lucky or what?"

Near the end of their ride, they come upon a small stream; hardly more than a trickle. The husband goes to jump the horse across the stream, but of course the horse balks again and the man goes flying, landing in the stream. The wife is thinking, "Here it comes! He's _got_ to lose it this time!" But yet again, the husband picks himself up, shakes off as much of the water as possible, steps across the stream, grabs the horse by the bridle, points a finger at its face, and calmly says, "That's Three." But this time, instead of getting back into the saddle, he opens up his saddlebag, pulls out a revolver, and shoots the horse dead.

Flabbergasted, the wife asked, "What did you do that for??"

Calmly, the husband turns to his wife and points a finger at her and says, "That's One."]
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Woolfe » December 20th, 2012, 6:06 am

Well it obviously depends on the character

He might be a little dodgy, but when it comes to it he'll lay his life down for the team, or even strangers.

Or he might be as smooth as pie, but kills kids for kicks.

Nothing is ever black and white.

It would be interesting if he wasn't stealing from you, but from the locals. But you didn't know about it, and so you started to get this rep around you that didn't make sense, until you work out he is stealing from the people you are trying to help.

Or one night he just ninjas all the good gear and buggers off. Only to be found some weeks later out of cash but having been living the highlife in some town.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Arcanix » December 20th, 2012, 6:58 am

Woolfe wrote:It would be interesting if he wasn't stealing from you, but from the locals. But you didn't know about it, and so you started to get this rep around you that didn't make sense, until you work out he is stealing from the people you are trying to help.
That should be in the game. This guy should steal from everyone. If he steals ammo from NPCs, or your sqaud, they should run short in combat as a result. (With the animations and verbal abuse that comes with it). If he steals livestock there should be an animation with him walking a cow. If he steals shades or baseball caps he should wear them.
CaptainPatch wrote:Meh. If it's absolutely proven that the man is a thief, what's wrong with lopping off his dominant hand? Or at least brand a "T" onto his forehead or cheek?
Right hand today, branding tomorrow...at the end of next week that poor thing might end up looking like a meat popsicle.

Hows that for slapstick cartoon fun?


EDIT:

If that guy manage to steal a "rare" cow that one could have a tattoo depicting a map. (One way to remove the fog of war effect). Could either be one specific map or a few random generated ones. Side quests etc included.
March 24th, 2014, 4:13 am
Drool wrote:WL2 being turn-based is bad enough.

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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 20th, 2012, 4:24 pm

Arcanix wrote:If that guy manage to steal a "rare" cow that one could have a tattoo depicting a map. (One way to remove the fog of war effect). Could either be one specific map or a few random generated ones. Side quests etc included.
Why the need to actually steal the cow? Just copy the map into your Journal.

"What am I doing? Uh, I'm into Nature Art. Yeah, uhm, that's right. Paintings of cloud formations, descriptive wave patterns on a lakeshore, that kind of thing. In this case, I really, really like the pattern the color splotches have appeared in this cow's hide. So I'm just making a copy of the pattern so I can accurately recreate it on canvas later. Yeah, that's it; Nature Art in action." :roll:
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Woolfe » December 20th, 2012, 5:00 pm

CaptainPatch wrote:
Arcanix wrote:If that guy manage to steal a "rare" cow that one could have a tattoo depicting a map. (One way to remove the fog of war effect). Could either be one specific map or a few random generated ones. Side quests etc included.
Why the need to actually steal the cow? Just copy the map into your Journal.

"What am I doing? Uh, I'm into Nature Art. Yeah, uhm, that's right. Paintings of cloud formations, descriptive wave patterns on a lakeshore, that kind of thing. In this case, I really, really like the pattern the color splotches have appeared in this cow's hide. So I'm just making a copy of the pattern so I can accurately recreate it on canvas later. Yeah, that's it; Nature Art in action." :roll:
Alternatively you could skin and then Eat the cow, map + lunch :lol:
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 20th, 2012, 7:32 pm

Woolfe wrote:Alternatively you could skin and then Eat the cow, map + lunch :lol:
Ah, but you see that was the whole point: to avoid the necessity to steal the cow in the first place. If _you_ are consuming the cow, then you took possession of it, either by purchase or by stealing. And if it was that you purchased the cow, there was no need to even consider stealing it in the first place.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Woolfe » December 20th, 2012, 8:35 pm

CaptainPatch wrote:
Woolfe wrote:Alternatively you could skin and then Eat the cow, map + lunch :lol:
Ah, but you see that was the whole point: to avoid the necessity to steal the cow in the first place. If _you_ are consuming the cow, then you took possession of it, either by purchase or by stealing. And if it was that you purchased the cow, there was no need to even consider stealing it in the first place.
Dagnabit... don't bring logic into the argument.. I wants me some prime beef with treasure map on top ;)


Yeah I got what you were saying, I just figured what you were saying was accurate. Whether you could portray it? and why hasn't the cow owner already followed the map?
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by CaptainPatch » December 20th, 2012, 8:43 pm

Woolfe wrote:...why hasn't the cow owner already followed the map?
For the same reason that every once in awhile someone buys a VERY valuable painting at a garage sale: The owner didn't realize what he was looking at.
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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Arcanix » December 20th, 2012, 8:45 pm

CaptainPatch wrote:Why the need to actually steal the cow? Just copy the map into your Journal.
1. That guy is a kleptomaniac. Why would he need a reason?
2. If you do not know the tattoo is a map then you wouldnt know what to look for.
3. My suggestion is more fun than yours.

CaptainPatch wrote: And if it was that you purchased the cow, there was no need to even consider stealing it in the first place.
What, try talk a kleptomaniac into buying anything.

Woolfe wrote:and why hasn't the cow owner already followed the map?
Who says he/she hasnt? You assume too much. :lol:

Woolfe wrote:Alternatively you could skin and then Eat the cow, map + lunch
Alternatively, you could use a stapler and use the map as a t-shirt. Clothes + fun.
March 24th, 2014, 4:13 am
Drool wrote:WL2 being turn-based is bad enough.

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Re: Sleight Of Hand (Stealing)

Post by Shaewaros » December 27th, 2012, 6:55 am

DarkTwinkie wrote:Hi Gabriel77Dan,

The player characters won't have a steal skill that they can use, but occasionally an CNPC that the players come across might have the ability to do this. It came down to a question of time and resources. Stealing is a cool skill in games, but any skills we added we want to have a good amount of reactivity. When we starting discussing a design for stealing, it turned into a major task. Ability to steal items, what kind of items can be stolen, what if you get caught, how does the NPC react in the future if you're caught. It turned out to be something we didn't think was core to the experience for the amount of time needed to add it correctly.
This is rather disappointing news. I always loved stealing in FO games.

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