Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

The place to ask detailed technicaly questions about the crowdsourced assets experiment, and to post and discuss WIPs if you so desire.

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Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Brother None » December 6th, 2012, 3:08 pm

This forum in general is to post WIPs specifically for inXile and Unity Partnering in a Crowdsourced Experiment. Post new threads if you have a WIP to show, preferably with the concept art you're basing it on. Communicating on your work can help gather feedback and help communicate to other artists what concepts are "taken" so we prevent a lot of duplicates. This is all voluntary, there is no obligation to post WIPs to be eligible for submissions to the Crowdsourced Experiment.

This thread specifically is for technical questions to the inXile staff. If certain requirements or stylistic questions are unclear to you, post in this thread, inXile's art guys will check this thread as regularly as they can to help clarify their requirements.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Gizmo » December 6th, 2012, 3:55 pm

Poly-count recommendations for large, medium, and small objects?
Mirrored UVs? (or not?)
Animated or not? (Even an old bicycle chained to a pipe might have plastic streamers.)

Does something with cloth [like a flag or curtain] need to be key-framed or use the Interactive Cloth class?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by kalamona » December 6th, 2012, 4:45 pm

Hello,
I am Kalamona, and my works for unity assetstore can be seen here:
http://u3d.as/publisher/kalamona/2k4
I am mainly a technical artist (effects, rigging, preparing for engine, small scripts, etc), but I can do some modeling and texturing too.

- Do we keep the rights to distribute/sell the props we create?
- It is not clear how you pay for the finished (and accepted) models. You simply buy it from the asset store once, or you pay more?

Thanks,
Kalamona

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by thepapercut » December 6th, 2012, 10:49 pm

Can students take part in this event? I ask cause I'd love to take a stab at this and gain some practice, but my copy of 3DS Max is a student version. It's not so much I want to put it on the store to sell, but to get a chance to get my work in the game.

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Gizmo » December 6th, 2012, 11:35 pm

thepapercut wrote:Can students take part in this event? I ask cause I'd love to take a stab at this and gain some practice, but my copy of 3DS Max is a student version. It's not so much I want to put it on the store to sell, but to get a chance to get my work in the game.
If you were accepted, it would be a 'for profit' use; that's against the EULA for the student version.

But nothing stops you from using Blender 8-). Unity works well with Blender; and Blender reads 3DS.

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Xarek » December 7th, 2012, 2:42 am

I have some questions about the Unity submission:

1. Are we allowed to have bones etc. in submissions (eg. rotatable turret)
2. The readme.txt in the scene file says to submit the whole scene to Unity with the box asset replaced, is this correct? Will Unity then ask us to resubmit our actual asset for general use in the store?
3. What size textures are you comfortable with?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 7th, 2012, 5:07 pm

Gizmo wrote:Poly-count recommendations for large, medium, and small objects?
Mirrored UVs? (or not?)
Animated or not? (Even an old bicycle chained to a pipe might have plastic streamers.)
Does something with cloth [like a flag or curtain] need to be key-framed or use the Interactive Cloth class?

Thanks for the inquiry, good questions.

Poly-limit is called out on the individual concept (click on thumbnail for full image).
UV's can do what ever you want in the 1st channel... 2nd channel is reserved for a light map layout where all faces need unique real-estate.

Currently, no animation is required for these types of props. But thank you for the offer. Certainly, if you have an animation that really makes the prop shine (like a windmill that has rotation for the fan blades), feel free to include it, and if we need to strip it out for performance reasons, we can do so in-house.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 7th, 2012, 5:24 pm

Gizmo wrote:
thepapercut wrote:Can students take part in this event? I ask cause I'd love to take a stab at this and gain some practice, but my copy of 3DS Max is a student version. It's not so much I want to put it on the store to sell, but to get a chance to get my work in the game.
If you were accepted, it would be a 'for profit' use; that's against the EULA for the student version.

But nothing stops you from using Blender 8-). Unity works well with Blender; and Blender reads 3DS.
This sounds about right to me, but I am no lawyer. Follow the agreements you've made with any software provider.
That being said, this is TOTALLY open to everyone that wants to participate; students, pros, backers, fans, or otherwise.
I would encourage you to pursue this in any legal way available to you. There are plenty of free/low cost apps out there.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Gizmo » December 7th, 2012, 5:27 pm

d-Koy wrote:Thanks for the inquiry, good questions.
Thanks for the reply. I have one more question; some of the descriptions imply creative inventiveness, but is your expectation a very close approximation of the sketch or is the sketch a very loose approximation of what you need, and the modeler is free to make anything that recognizably fits the concept?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 7th, 2012, 5:56 pm

Xarek wrote:I have some questions about the Unity submission:

1. Are we allowed to have bones etc. in submissions (eg. rotatable turret)
2. The readme.txt in the scene file says to submit the whole scene to Unity with the box asset replaced, is this correct? Will Unity then ask us to resubmit our actual asset for general use in the store?
3. What size textures are you comfortable with?
RE#1: I have no objection to adding bones and animations to props, and I certainly understand how that will make the prop more attractive when it hits the store. If we determine that the cost of any extra elements like anims, particles, etc. are too great, we can strip them out on our end.
For simple prop anims - like doors or gears - our Lead animArtist recommends: rather than adding bones and skins, just place pivots at the appropriate places and we can animate the prop with in-engine tools.

RE#2: I will look into this further next week, but yes, we would like to see the seed scene submitted to us with your asset in it. I think you certainly have an opportunity to alter the package (remove turntable and lights) after we have purchased it and it goes out to the public store. The process by which Unity allows iterative submissions is pretty straight forward. I see no problem with that from our perspective. The seed file mostly allows us to have a controlled environment in which we can review and evaluate each submission on an equal field.

RE#3: Textures are always best at their full working size, we clamp their final size in engine to allow us the flexibility of maintaining higher quality in game where its beneficial. I tend to work at 1024 for little props (smaller than a car) and 2048 for larger props (bigger than a truck).
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by invaderZim » December 8th, 2012, 4:19 am

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if we can use multi sub objects and how many we can have per model, as that would make a nicer end results. It would then allow us to use the same texture across more models without it losing its uniqueness.

I suppose the combined size of the subs would remain at either the 1024/2048 depending on the model as you've stated previously.

Cheers

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Takkik » December 8th, 2012, 6:09 am

Hi, got a bunch of questions too.

Is it possible to get a reel test scene made with actual in game textures/assets so people have an exemple of actual art direction and so we can test if models made fit "in game"? Or at least an art doc with more scenes/textures/colors etc... Personnaly can't really visualise the mood/ visual direction. Never played the first wasteland, so the only feeling I get come from fallout retro futur.

Do we have to stick to concept closely or it is open to interpretation? Stuff like cars, car trains... can get lot of variations.

For people not familiar with the asset store, what is for you the price range for the assets?

Developing the sub object question of invaderZim, is it possible to release a set of objects sharing same textures? Like rocks, cars variations etc...

EDIT: How working with specular with the shader used in Unity? Look like this shader mix spec + alpha mask at same time in the alpha channel of the diffuse map. Don't understand how use this one without mixing transparency & spec. Is it possible to use another shader?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by McDougle » December 8th, 2012, 2:48 pm

RE#3: Textures are always best at their full working size, we clamp their final size in engine to allow us the flexibility of maintaining higher quality in game where its beneficial. I tend to work at 1024 for little props (smaller than a car) and 2048 for larger props (bigger than a truck).
Ah, thanks. :) A word on the texture sizes of WL2 textures. :)
Im not sure if ill participate, but I was interested in 5he textures for quite some time now (and might mod some after the games release :P ).
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by snowball » December 9th, 2012, 3:30 am

Hi everyone,

I would really love to participate in creating assets for Wasteland 2. I have been able to gather experience in modelling for a 2D based game. Of course everything that counts for 2D game assets is the rendered image and you do not have to worry how will your object look like from different angles, different lighting and so on, so I have a basic question: does the object need to be monolithic, or can the object consist of many separate meshes grouped together?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by RangerKeenan » December 10th, 2012, 10:21 am

kalamona wrote:Hello,
I am Kalamona, and my works for unity assetstore can be seen here:
http://u3d.as/publisher/kalamona/2k4
I am mainly a technical artist (effects, rigging, preparing for engine, small scripts, etc), but I can do some modeling and texturing too.

- Do we keep the rights to distribute/sell the props we create?
- It is not clear how you pay for the finished (and accepted) models. You simply buy it from the asset store once, or you pay more?

Thanks,
Kalamona
You do control the rights to distribute and sell the props how you see fit.

We will basically be your first sale. You propose the price for the asset store and if it fits in to what we need, we will initially purchase it.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Rat_Herder » December 10th, 2012, 10:38 am

Gizmo wrote:
d-Koy wrote:Thanks for the inquiry, good questions.
Thanks for the reply. I have one more question; some of the descriptions imply creative inventiveness, but is your expectation a very close approximation of the sketch or is the sketch a very loose approximation of what you need, and the modeler is free to make anything that recognizably fits the concept?

Hey Gizmo. The thumbnail concepts are just a general idea of the direction we would like to go. Please feel free to create your own interpretation. The Idea of the thumbnails was to guide the design for those who may have needed a starting point, or an idea to build off. Looking forward to seeing your creations!
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by ButchinMelancholy » December 10th, 2012, 11:46 am

I agree with what was already suggested on this forum, that you should probably give a little bit more specific indications as to how or where are supposed to be used those items in order to give a better direction for the artists about what they should do with them.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 10th, 2012, 12:00 pm

Gizmo wrote:
d-Koy wrote:Thanks for the inquiry, good questions.
Thanks for the reply. I have one more question; some of the descriptions imply creative inventiveness, but is your expectation a very close approximation of the sketch or is the sketch a very loose approximation of what you need, and the modeler is free to make anything that recognizably fits the concept?
The provided thumbnails are a loose approximation of what we need. I strongly encourage participants to be creative in their interpretation for a few reasons:

#1 - We want to see variety in the game. If 3 people make a water tower, and each of them is different enough from the others, we can buy all three and use them in different scenes.

#2 - Variety will make it easier for participants to sell their props to other buyers in the store, effectively avoiding multiple "copies" of the same prop being available from multiple sellers.

#3 - Wasteland prop creation is all about ad-hoc reuse of existing resources... as implicated in the thumbnails.
Your creative thoughts on how a Wastelander would re-create a useful item out of found objects is half the fun.

In the end, your creation should try and come close to striking the same vibe as the concept, but should not adhere to it completely. It should be about the same scale and should have the same level of wear and tear and ad-hocness. Outside of that, your imagination is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 10th, 2012, 12:11 pm

invaderZim wrote:Hi Guys,

Just wondering if we can use multi sub objects and how many we can have per model, as that would make a nicer end results. It would then allow us to use the same texture across more models without it losing its uniqueness.

I suppose the combined size of the subs would remain at either the 1024/2048 depending on the model as you've stated previously.

Cheers
Yes, and no. Yes, If the prop you are working on would be better off with mulitple materials due to its size or complexity, we are open to that. But this should be done in moderation. We do not want to see an asset come in with 5 materials when 2 would have been good enough (keep in mind the scale of the prop in relation to our camera that is high and tight).

If you choose to use multiple materials, they need to be applied to separate meshes (that can be joined together as part of the prefab in Unity). This help us limit the number of draw calls at run time. Avoid assigning multiple material IDs to multiple faces of a mesh. Instead, detach the Sub-element's geometry in your modelling software and export as a separate .fbx - and it helps if they share the same pivot point.

Yes, they should still target the appropriate map size. I would prefer to clamp the map size in-engine, for example, of the accessories of a model if we are low on memory for a given scene, and maintain the higher resolution for the main body of the asset.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 10th, 2012, 12:34 pm

Takkik wrote:Hi, got a bunch of questions too.

Is it possible to get a reel test scene made with actual in game textures/assets so people have an exemple of actual art direction and so we can test if models made fit "in game"? Or at least an art doc with more scenes/textures/colors etc... Personnaly can't really visualise the mood/ visual direction. Never played the first wasteland, so the only feeling I get come from fallout retro futur.
Sorry, we can't do this at this time. Many of our scenes, as I am sure you can guess, are chock-full of props we bought on the asset store or received from fans and backers. To provide these scenes as part of the download would basically be giving their stuff away. And that's not very nice. I know there is not a lot of in-game imagery available at this time, I apologize for that... a condition of being early in the development cycle.
Takkik wrote:Do we have to stick to concept closely or it is open to interpretation? Stuff like cars, car trains... can get lot of variations.
See other replies in this thread, but yes, basically it's open.
Takkik wrote:For people not familiar with the asset store, what is for you the price range for the assets?
Unity has guidelines for pricing, and since they are the first to evaluate/approve your submission, you should follow their guides.
Takkik wrote:Developing the sub object question of invaderZim, is it possible to release a set of objects sharing same textures? Like rocks, cars variations etc...
Yes, reuse of a texture or material is awesome and helps cut down on memory usage and render time. Be resourceful.
Takkik wrote:EDIT: How working with specular with the shader used in Unity? Look like this shader mix spec + alpha mask at same time in the alpha channel of the diffuse map. Don't understand how use this one without mixing transparency & spec. Is it possible to use another shader?
You can use any number of shaders depending on the nature of your asset. The box in the scene uses the alpha of the diffuse map for masking, but that's just an example of a texture set up. You have options, feel free to explore them. The documentation for Unity is pretty thorough, and I recommend it as a good learning resource.
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